June 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Fixing obsolete Classes

by Sebastian Tleye

if you create a class "MyClass" and you do Smalltalk globals at: #MyLittleClass put: MyClass new. and then you remove the class "MyClass" Smalltalk globals at: #MyLittleClass will be a referencing to an obsoleteClass 2013/6/3 Andres Valloud <avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> > How can you have an instance of a class X if the class X doesn't "exist" > anymore? The whole point here is that an object's class is also a strong > reference to the class, and generally it's skipped by object reference > finders. The way you find those is by sending allInstances (or equivalent) > to the class. > > > On 6/3/13 2:19 , Sebastian Tleye wrote: > >> This happens when you have instances of the class and the class doesn't >> exists anymore. >> "Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences" didn't completely work for me when i >> had that problem, i had to find out where those references were. >> I think looking for strong pointers of the ObsoleteClass would be a good >> start. >> >> >> 2013/6/3 Andres Valloud <avalloud(a)smalltalk.**comcastbiz.net<avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> >> <mailto:avalloud@smalltalk.**comcastbiz.net<avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> >> >> >> >> >> Maybe they have instances. GC can't remove a class under its >> instances. >> >> >> On 6/3/13 2:14 , Gisela Decuzzi wrote: >> >> Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the >> system and I >> want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this >> classes are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. >> >> I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete >> classes >> are there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I >> run: >> SystemNavigation new obsoleteClassesselect: [ :each | each >> isAnonymous >> >> not ] >> I get the problem classes. >> >> I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to >> solve >> the problem >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/_**_pipermail/pharo-project/2011-** >> __January/038824.html<http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/__pipermail/pharo-project/2011-__January/03882…> >> >> <http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/**pipermail/pharo-project/2011-** >> January/038824.html<http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht…> >> > >> >> Maybe someone could help me... >> >> >> >> >

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Fixing obsolete Classes

by Andres Valloud

How can you have an instance of a class X if the class X doesn't "exist" anymore? The whole point here is that an object's class is also a strong reference to the class, and generally it's skipped by object reference finders. The way you find those is by sending allInstances (or equivalent) to the class. On 6/3/13 2:19 , Sebastian Tleye wrote: > This happens when you have instances of the class and the class doesn't > exists anymore. > "Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences" didn't completely work for me when i > had that problem, i had to find out where those references were. > I think looking for strong pointers of the ObsoleteClass would be a good > start. > > > 2013/6/3 Andres Valloud <avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net > <mailto:avalloud@smalltalk.comcastbiz.net>> > > Maybe they have instances. GC can't remove a class under its instances. > > > On 6/3/13 2:14 , Gisela Decuzzi wrote: > > Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the > system and I > want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this > classes are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. > > I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete > classes > are there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I run: > SystemNavigation new obsoleteClassesselect: [ :each | each > isAnonymous > > not ] > I get the problem classes. > > I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to > solve > the problem > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/__pipermail/pharo-project/2011-__January/03882… > <http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht…> > > Maybe someone could help me... > > >

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Fixing obsolete Classes

by Bernat Romagosa

Yep, I'd find the pointers to all instances of these obsolete classes, then remove them from any instance variable pointing to them. I'm not sure you can do this with obsolete classes (and I don't have a Pharo image with instances of any obsolete classes running), but probably YourObsoleteClass allInstances should give you the list... 2013/6/3 Gisela Decuzzi <giseladecuzzi(a)gmail.com> > Hi Bernat, yes, I ran Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences. And also ran the > garbage collector but if find the obsolete references I get the classes > anyway. > > Yes, in someway seems to be an instance of this class... but how can I > find them? > > > 2013/6/3 Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> > >> Hi Gisela, >> >> Have you tried DoingIt: *Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences*? >> >> >> 2013/6/3 Gisela Decuzzi <giseladecuzzi(a)gmail.com> >> >>> Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the system and I >>> want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this classes >>> are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. >>> >>> I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete classes >>> are there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I run: >>> SystemNavigation new obsoleteClasses select: [ :each | each isAnonymous >>> not ] >>> I get the problem classes. >>> >>> I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to solve >>> the problem >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht… >>> >>> Maybe someone could help me... >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Bernat Romagosa. >> > > -- Bernat Romagosa.

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Fixing obsolete Classes

by Gisela Decuzzi

Hi Bernat, yes, I ran Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences. And also ran the garbage collector but if find the obsolete references I get the classes anyway. Yes, in someway seems to be an instance of this class... but how can I find them? 2013/6/3 Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> > Hi Gisela, > > Have you tried DoingIt: *Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences*? > > > 2013/6/3 Gisela Decuzzi <giseladecuzzi(a)gmail.com> > >> Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the system and I >> want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this classes >> are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. >> >> I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete classes >> are there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I run: >> SystemNavigation new obsoleteClasses select: [ :each | each isAnonymous >> not ] >> I get the problem classes. >> >> I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to solve the >> problem >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht… >> >> Maybe someone could help me... >> >> > > > -- > Bernat Romagosa. >

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Fixing obsolete Classes

by Sebastian Tleye

This happens when you have instances of the class and the class doesn't exists anymore. "Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences" didn't completely work for me when i had that problem, i had to find out where those references were. I think looking for strong pointers of the ObsoleteClass would be a good start. 2013/6/3 Andres Valloud <avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> > Maybe they have instances. GC can't remove a class under its instances. > > > On 6/3/13 2:14 , Gisela Decuzzi wrote: > >> Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the system and I >> want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this >> classes are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. >> >> I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete classes >> are there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I run: >> SystemNavigation new obsoleteClassesselect: [ :each | each isAnonymous >> >> not ] >> I get the problem classes. >> >> I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to solve >> the problem >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/**pipermail/pharo-project/2011-** >> January/038824.html<http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht…> >> >> Maybe someone could help me... >> >> >

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo consultants

by phil＠highoctane.be

Get the bosses to trust you and sign the check. The you use the tech you want. Now, that's how I do work, and it pays off. Less hassles, more money, more solutions that do work. That's what a consultant does. A contractor is another matter of course. I doubt anyone in my business club cares an iota about the tech details. Real business value is easy: I spend 100K, I spare 20 million. Risk? Low. Decision: No brainer: go. When you know businesses spend 50K on toilet paper and office supplies a year, you can target your pricing a bit higher. I am always surprised that IT guys are playing that silly race to the bottom and behave as commodity . It's the mindset. And Pharo can be a powerful weapon in that game. Phil On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 03.06.2013 um 09:47 schrieb phil(a)highoctane.be: > > I'd say creating visible success cases w/ real business value is what will > drive usage forward. > > Without that, well, that's yet another tech in the pile. > > Maybe. But my experience shows that it is more effective than having > developers think about marketing or "real business value" (whatever that > might be). Sorry, but most of us don't have a glue about it. It is just > high hopes (juggling with learned business acronyms) that are hard to > achieve and it is the safest way that nothing will happen. > Anyway I'm just responding because you are weighing efforts. If there are > more things that we can do I'm pretty sure we should do all of them. > > Norbert > > Once business sees that using Pharo has a clear ROI, then, who cares about > justifications. > > BTW, interesting programming doesn't occurs in the IT departments where > you have to justify everything but in business units where doing something > that matters to the bottom line is what counts. (That's why business units > do a lot of skunkworks projects in their area... and why we should focus > there). > > > Phil > > > On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> >> Am 01.06.2013 um 17:28 schrieb StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> >> > >> > On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Am 01.06.2013 um 08:10 schrieb StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> >> >> >>> Hi guys >> >>> >> >>> I think that we are doing a poor job selling ourselves. I think that >> the quality of our community is in >> >>> general excellent but we do not sell it. I think that we are not >> using well the association. >> >>> I think that this is REALLY important for a larger adoption of Pharo >> that the world >> >>> knows that we have excellent guys around that can consult. >> >>> >> >>> So what do you think? >> >>> I would use the association in a much clearer way. >> >> >> >> I think you need to elaborate here. On this level of detail the only >> answer could be: good idea! I cannot see what you have on your mind when >> you like to use the association in a clearer way. >> > >> > I mean that we could use the association as a show room for talented >> person >> > "selling" their expertise :) >> > >> >> I would like to have consultancy for consultants. I mean I read that >> sometimes that developers are just too shy to sell services with smalltalk >> or do not dare to introduce it to their IT. There should be an instance >> encouraging those people or be just an address to target questions to. >> > >> > I would like to show to the world that if they start business around >> Pharo they can find experts. >> >> Agreed. I think that is important, too. I just like as well help people >> finding the right arguments (or myth counter arguments) to be able to >> implement smalltalk in their company themselves. It is the same as >> programming: You have to unlearn "some truths" first before you can argue a >> better way. It works for me and people I talk to. And I (and other people, >> too..I guess) are open to answer questions about this. >> >> Norbert >> >> >> >> > >

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Fixing obsolete Classes

by Andres Valloud

Maybe they have instances. GC can't remove a class under its instances. On 6/3/13 2:14 , Gisela Decuzzi wrote: > Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the system and I > want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this > classes are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. > > I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete classes > are there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I run: > SystemNavigation new obsoleteClassesselect: [ :each | each isAnonymous > not ] > I get the problem classes. > > I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to solve > the problem > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht… > > Maybe someone could help me... >

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Fixing obsolete Classes

by Bernat Romagosa

Hi Gisela, Have you tried DoingIt: *Smalltalk fixObsoleteReferences*? 2013/6/3 Gisela Decuzzi <giseladecuzzi(a)gmail.com> > Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the system and I > want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this classes > are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. > > I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete classes are > there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I run: > SystemNavigation new obsoleteClasses select: [ :each | each isAnonymous > not ] > I get the problem classes. > > I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to solve the > problem > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht… > > Maybe someone could help me... > > -- Bernat Romagosa.

June 3, 2013

Fixing obsolete Classes

by Gisela Decuzzi

Hi, I'm trying to fix this, I have Obsolete classes in the system and I want to remove them, as long as I understood this is because this classes are gone and in some point someone is referencing them. I do an extended search an get nothing, but still the obsolete classes are there... I don't find no one with references to it but if I run: SystemNavigation new obsoleteClasses select: [ :each | each isAnonymous not ] I get the problem classes. I found this thread about a similar issue but don't know how to solve the problem http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-January/038824.ht… Maybe someone could help me...

June 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Where to get Magritte?

by Bahman Movaqar

On 2013-06-03 12:19, Damien Cassou wrote: > Dear Bahman, > > On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Bahman Movaqar <Bahman(a)bahmanm.com> wrote: >> What is the correct/current repository for Magritte? > > the official repository for Magritte is > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Magritte. Current stable version is > Magritte3. Official mailing list is smallwiki(a)iam.unibe.ch > (https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki) Thanks Ben and Damien. I'm still wondering if I should use Magritte and a traditional DB in Simin or not. Definitely they bring a lot of advantages to the table but I somehow feel I should stick to the simplest approach -for the beginning of Simin- just to get familiar with Pharo itself; I don't know the language yet :-) Anyway, off to a short vacation. Will resume harassing you folks next week :-) -- Bahman Movaqar (http://BahmanM.com) ERP Evaluation, Implementation, Deployment Consultant

June 3, 2013