June 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] inspect returns iOf SystemWindow and not receiver

by Sabine KnÃ¶fel

Hi Stef, oh yes I know about >>halt but it is not the same as getting an inspector;-) Don't you agree with me that in this point, Pharo should have the same behaviour as the ohter smalltalk dialects (VisualAge/IBM Smalltalk, VisualWorks, Gemstone)? Greetings Sabine On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:38 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse [via Smalltalk] <ml-node+s1294792n4692446h21(a)n4.nabble.com> wrote: > but halt is really a simple method > > you can introduce myHalt > > Object>>myHalt > > Halt signal. > > and you are done. > > Stef > > On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:58 AM, [hidden email] wrote: > > +1 to what Sabine says. Very useful behavior. > > Phil > > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> I should give an example why this is not useful for me. >> >> While developing, I use >>inspect to see, what is in any object AND I want >> the app to proceed. >> E.g. while creating a report, I want to see the table columns in an >> inspector. >> I don't want to halt and debug, I only want to see an inspector. >> >> self currentPage add: >> (PDFDataTableWithColumnsCaptionElement new >> captions: self costReportDaysTableColumns inspect; >> data: ...; >> >> Now, I have to write it like that >> >> self costReportDaysTableColumns inspect. >> self currentPage add: >> (PDFDataTableWithColumnsCaptionElement new >> captions: self costReportDaysTableColumns ; >> data: ...; >> >> Yes, this is possible but it is not so easigoing as simply put an inspect >> somewhere. >> >> Remarks: >> 1) I develop a seaside app. I am not interested in the System Window;-) >> 2) I cant find a selector >>onWindowClosed: >> 3) >>inspect is a selector which exists in every smalltalk dialect. In >> every >> smalltalk dialect I worked with, inspect returned the receiver. It is >> kind >> of standard IMHO. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/inspect-returns-iOf-SystemWindow-and-not-receiver-tp4… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion > below: > http://forum.world.st/inspect-returns-iOf-SystemWindow-and-not-receiver-tp4… > To unsubscribe from inspect returns iOf SystemWindow and not receiver, click > here. > NAML -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/inspect-returns-iOf-SystemWindow-and-not-receiver-tp4… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] inspect returns iOf SystemWindow and not receiver

by Sabine KnÃ¶fel

Hi Marcus, thank you. I can not see the entry because I have no access. Is it possible to grant access for me so that I can, next time, look if there is already a bug entry instead of starting a discussion in the Forum? Greetings Sabine On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Marcus Denker-4 [via Smalltalk] <ml-node+s1294792n4692435h80(a)n4.nabble.com> wrote: > > On Jun 8, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> while developing my app with seaside, I sometimes use inspect within any >> statement. >> I am used from Pharo 1.4 and from other smalltalk dialects, that >>inspect >> returns the receiver itself. >> But in Pharo 2.0 it returns an instance of SystemWindow. >> I dont see any sense in that. It that with intent? >> > > A bug report is here: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/6989/Inspect-should-be-silent > > > Marcus > > > > > ________________________________ > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion > below: > http://forum.world.st/inspect-returns-iOf-SystemWindow-and-not-receiver-tp4… > To unsubscribe from inspect returns iOf SystemWindow and not receiver, click > here. > NAML -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/inspect-returns-iOf-SystemWindow-and-not-receiver-tp4… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] ui slowness on newly installed ubuntu 13.04 64bit

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jun 9, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I think that we do have a problem, and I think it is VM related. > > This is what I see on my Ubuntu 13.04 64-bit machine (AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 640, 4GB, AMD Radeon HD 7750) using a Pharo 3.0 #30189 image. > > Using the vm from get.pharo.org/30+vm > > [ SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 99 101 > > [ SystemNavigation new browseAllCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 1455 1420 > > Using the vm from ppa:pharo/stable > > [ SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 1495 1518 > > [ SystemNavigation new browseAllCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 11535 11156 > > That is a 10x slowdown ! ouch! > > Here are the VM details: > > $ ./pharo-ui -version > 3.9-7 #1 Wed Mar 13 18:22:44 CET 2013 gcc 4.4.3 > NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 > git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: 412abef33cbed05cf1d75329e451d71c0c6aa5a7 Date: 2013-03-13 17:48:50 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14535 > Linux linux-ubuntu-10 2.6.32-38-server #83-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jan 4 11:26:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux > plugin path: /home/sven/Pharo/pharo-vm/ [default: /home/sven/Pharo/pharo-vm/] > > $ pharo-vm-x --version > 3.9-7 #1 Thu Jun 6 11:05:55 UTC 2013 gcc 4.7.3 > NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jun 6 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jun 6 2013 > git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: 0f562e0afe14e533470278943b5d65d42ea133c2 Date: 2013-05-30 16:38:08 +0200 By: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14595 > Linux samarium 2.6.24-32-xen #1 SMP Thu Jul 12 14:30:40 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i686 GNU/Linux > plugin path: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/ [default: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/] > > One version seems older, but I don't know what changed inbetween them > > Sven > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> wrote: > And the pharo2 linux all-in-one runs in 116ms on my hardware on Ubuntu > 13.04 64bit. > > > > > > On 06/07/2013 09:35 AM, Markus Fritsche wrote: > > On 07.06.2013 17:55, Paul DeBruicker wrote: > >> From the below it seems to be something with running on linux 64bits > >> with a UI slows it down by a factor of 10x. > >> > >> > >> Command line per Camillo below on ubuntu 13.04 64bit on the hardware > >> was: 134ms > >> > >> Using Pharo-2 windows all in one on a windows xp virtualbox VM was: 163ms > >> > >> Using Pharo-2 linux all in one on a ubuntu 12,04 64bit virtualbox VM > >> was: 1918ms > >> > >> > >> Using Pharo-2 linux all in one on a debian 6 32bit virtualbox VM was: 152 ms > > Further research: > > Pharo PPA VM, Ubuntu 13.04 64Bit: > > [SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun 2230 > > CogVM from Eliot directly ( > > http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r2732/) > > [SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun 164 > > > > Kind regards, > > Markus > > >

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message

by Guillermo Polito

Maybe any from the Pharo manifesto[1]? Pharo manifesto - Better for the better - Beauty to learn from - Not backward compatible - Clean, lean and fast [1] https://code.google.com/p/pharo/ BTW, is the manifesto in the new issue tracker's wiki? i didn't find it... Guille On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 9:01 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > "Enlightened Development" is over the top but fits with the "Pharo" > moniker. > "Enlightened Developer" ever more I'd say. > > "See the Light" also, but kinda cool. > > The problem is that disparaging others isn't really working well. > > "There is light at the end of the tunnel (and it is not a no exit sign...)" > > "The Innovation Accelerator" > > "More Power to You" > > yadayada > > Phil > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > >> >> On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:48 AM, Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm> >> wrote: >> >> > How about this phrase: 'Let Pharo set you free', with the allusion being >> > the biblical Pharo of Exodus (except this time around he's a really good >> > guy). >> > It's definitely a conversation starterâ¦ >> > >> >> I don't knowâ¦ sounds a bit strange. >> >> Marcus >> >> >> >> >

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] ui slowness on newly installed ubuntu 13.04 64bit

by Camillo Bruni

thanks for the insight. I opened an issue: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?10879 can you try get.pharo.org/30+vmLatest to try out the "unstable" VM? On 2013-06-09, at 19:04, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I think that we do have a problem, and I think it is VM related. > > This is what I see on my Ubuntu 13.04 64-bit machine (AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 > 640, 4GB, AMD Radeon HD 7750) using a Pharo 3.0 #30189 image. > > Using the vm from get.pharo.org/30+vm > > [ SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 99 101 > > [ SystemNavigation new browseAllCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 1455 1420 > > Using the vm from ppa:pharo/stable > > [ SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 1495 1518 > > [ SystemNavigation new browseAllCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun. 11535 11156 > > That is a 10x slowdown ! > > Here are the VM details: > > $ ./pharo-ui -version > 3.9-7 #1 Wed Mar 13 18:22:44 CET 2013 gcc 4.4.3 > NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: > a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: > a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 > git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: > 412abef33cbed05cf1d75329e451d71c0c6aa5a7 Date: 2013-03-13 17:48:50 +0100 > By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14535 > Linux linux-ubuntu-10 2.6.32-38-server #83-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jan 4 11:26:59 > UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux > plugin path: /home/sven/Pharo/pharo-vm/ [default: > /home/sven/Pharo/pharo-vm/] > > $ pharo-vm-x --version > 3.9-7 #1 Thu Jun 6 11:05:55 UTC 2013 gcc 4.7.3 > NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jun 6 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Jun 6 2013 > git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: > 0f562e0afe14e533470278943b5d65d42ea133c2 Date: 2013-05-30 16:38:08 +0200 > By: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14595 > Linux samarium 2.6.24-32-xen #1 SMP Thu Jul 12 14:30:40 UTC 2012 i686 > athlon i686 GNU/Linux > plugin path: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/ [default: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/] > > One version seems older, but I don't know what changed inbetween them > > Sven > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> And the pharo2 linux all-in-one runs in 116ms on my hardware on Ubuntu >> 13.04 64bit. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 06/07/2013 09:35 AM, Markus Fritsche wrote: >>> On 07.06.2013 17:55, Paul DeBruicker wrote: >>>> From the below it seems to be something with running on linux 64bits >>>> with a UI slows it down by a factor of 10x. >>>> >>>> >>>> Command line per Camillo below on ubuntu 13.04 64bit on the hardware >>>> was: 134ms >>>> >>>> Using Pharo-2 windows all in one on a windows xp virtualbox VM was: >> 163ms >>>> >>>> Using Pharo-2 linux all in one on a ubuntu 12,04 64bit virtualbox VM >>>> was: 1918ms >>>> >>>> >>>> Using Pharo-2 linux all in one on a debian 6 32bit virtualbox VM was: >> 152 ms >>> Further research: >>> Pharo PPA VM, Ubuntu 13.04 64Bit: >>> [SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun 2230 >>> CogVM from Eliot directly ( >>> http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r2732/) >>> [SystemNavigation new allCallsOn: #ifTrue: ] timeToRun 164 >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Markus >> >> >>

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message

by phil＠highoctane.be

"Enlightened Development" is over the top but fits with the "Pharo" moniker. "Enlightened Developer" ever more I'd say. "See the Light" also, but kinda cool. The problem is that disparaging others isn't really working well. "There is light at the end of the tunnel (and it is not a no exit sign...)" "The Innovation Accelerator" "More Power to You" yadayada Phil On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:48 AM, Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm> wrote: > > > How about this phrase: 'Let Pharo set you free', with the allusion being > > the biblical Pharo of Exodus (except this time around he's a really good > > guy). > > It's definitely a conversation starterâ¦ > > > > I don't knowâ¦ sounds a bit strange. > > Marcus > > > >

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo consultants

by Jesus NuÃ±ez

IMHO the key to success is certification. Certified courses should be delivered to consolidate the community, starting by offering on universities. I think the reasons for this are somewhat clear. 2013/6/3 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > Get the bosses to trust you and sign the check. The you use the tech you > want. > > Now, that's how I do work, and it pays off. > Less hassles, more money, more solutions that do work. > > That's what a consultant does. A contractor is another matter of course. > > I doubt anyone in my business club cares an iota about the tech details. > > Real business value is easy: I spend 100K, I spare 20 million. Risk? Low. > Decision: No brainer: go. > > When you know businesses spend 50K on toilet paper and office supplies a > year, you can target your pricing a bit higher. I am always surprised that > IT guys are playing that silly race to the bottom and behave as commodity . > > It's the mindset. And Pharo can be a powerful weapon in that game. > > Phil > > > On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> >> Am 03.06.2013 um 09:47 schrieb phil(a)highoctane.be: >> >> I'd say creating visible success cases w/ real business value is what >> will drive usage forward. >> >> Without that, well, that's yet another tech in the pile. >> >> Maybe. But my experience shows that it is more effective than having >> developers think about marketing or "real business value" (whatever that >> might be). Sorry, but most of us don't have a glue about it. It is just >> high hopes (juggling with learned business acronyms) that are hard to >> achieve and it is the safest way that nothing will happen. >> Anyway I'm just responding because you are weighing efforts. If there are >> more things that we can do I'm pretty sure we should do all of them. >> >> Norbert >> >> Once business sees that using Pharo has a clear ROI, then, who cares >> about justifications. >> >> BTW, interesting programming doesn't occurs in the IT departments where >> you have to justify everything but in business units where doing something >> that matters to the bottom line is what counts. (That's why business units >> do a lot of skunkworks projects in their area... and why we should focus >> there). >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 01.06.2013 um 17:28 schrieb StÃ©phane Ducasse < >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> >>> > >>> > On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >> Am 01.06.2013 um 08:10 schrieb StÃ©phane Ducasse < >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> >> >>> >>> Hi guys >>> >>> >>> >>> I think that we are doing a poor job selling ourselves. I think that >>> the quality of our community is in >>> >>> general excellent but we do not sell it. I think that we are not >>> using well the association. >>> >>> I think that this is REALLY important for a larger adoption of Pharo >>> that the world >>> >>> knows that we have excellent guys around that can consult. >>> >>> >>> >>> So what do you think? >>> >>> I would use the association in a much clearer way. >>> >> >>> >> I think you need to elaborate here. On this level of detail the only >>> answer could be: good idea! I cannot see what you have on your mind when >>> you like to use the association in a clearer way. >>> > >>> > I mean that we could use the association as a show room for talented >>> person >>> > "selling" their expertise :) >>> > >>> >> I would like to have consultancy for consultants. I mean I read that >>> sometimes that developers are just too shy to sell services with smalltalk >>> or do not dare to introduce it to their IT. There should be an instance >>> encouraging those people or be just an address to target questions to. >>> > >>> > I would like to show to the world that if they start business around >>> Pharo they can find experts. >>> >>> Agreed. I think that is important, too. I just like as well help people >>> finding the right arguments (or myth counter arguments) to be able to >>> implement smalltalk in their company themselves. It is the same as >>> programming: You have to unlearn "some truths" first before you can argue a >>> better way. It works for me and people I talk to. And I (and other people, >>> too..I guess) are open to answer questions about this. >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message

by Marcus Denker

On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:48 AM, Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm> wrote: > How about this phrase: 'Let Pharo set you free', with the allusion being > the biblical Pharo of Exodus (except this time around he's a really good > guy). > It's definitely a conversation starterâ¦ > I don't knowâ¦ sounds a bit strange. Marcus

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message

by Paul Davidowitz

umm, how about making it a little Smalltalkish: '[Pharo free: self] value' ----- Original message ----- From: Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm> To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:48:31 -0400 How about this phrase: 'Let Pharo set you free', with the allusion being the biblical Pharo of Exodus (except this time around he's a really good guy). It's definitely a conversation starter... ----- Original message ----- From: Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm> To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2013 19:35:44 -0400 Being that 'Pharo' is very easily confused with the Pharos of ancient Egypt, perhaps we can capitalize on that with some catchy phrase like: 'Build your best pyramid with the beacon of Pharo'

June 10, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Jeff, This is not fully related but in https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299 under "Media" category you can find lots of icons, logos, etc. Cheers, On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:48 PM, Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm>wrote: > How about this phrase: 'Let Pharo set you free', with the allusion being > the biblical Pharo of Exodus (except this time around he's a really good > guy). > It's definitely a conversation starter... > > ----- Original message ----- > From: Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm> > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Mugs 'n' stuff - logo and message > Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2013 19:35:44 -0400 > > Being that 'Pharo' is very easily confused with the Pharos of ancient > Egypt, perhaps we can capitalize on that with some catchy phrase like: > 'Build your best pyramid with the beacon of Pharo' > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 10, 2013