April 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Another spec question

by Johan Fabry

Hi Paul, it has some relations to VW, but really only from quite afar, in my opinion. For information on the rationale behind it I recommend you have a look at our paper, published here: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965 and freely available here: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00759030/ On Apr 14, 2013, at 5:08 PM, Paul Davidowitz <pdavidow(a)fastmail.fm> wrote: > Is it correct to speculate that Pharo spec is based on VisualWorks spec? > If so, can someone please elaborate? > Thanks, > -Paul > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Rationale behind Spec - questions

by stephane ducasse

>> > > First paper: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00759030/ > Tech Report: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00708067/ (a bit dry) > > About video, I am still processing the tutorial I have presented at Bern, but as soon as I have something, I will publicly announce it Ben yesterday I took the video I did about dice and I pasted that in a chapter. So may be we should do the same with your videos. Stef

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Rationale behind Spec - questions

by Johan Fabry

To amend my last statement, the link that Ben sent, to the first paper is the same published paper I am talking about, so you can freely get it there :-) On Apr 15, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > Hi Kenneth, > > there is some literature on Spec that might help you out. > > - The tech report serves as a 'getting started' http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/70/80/67/PDF/SpecTechReport.pdf > - Also, we published a paper that talks more about the motivations behind spec anditsadvantages.http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965 I can send you a preprint in a direct message if you are unable to download it. > > Greetings, ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Rationale behind Spec - questions

by phil＠highoctane.be

Preprint would be welcome over here as well :-) 2013/4/15 Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> > Hi Kenneth, > > there is some literature on Spec that might help you out. > > - The tech report serves as a 'getting started' > http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/70/80/67/PDF/SpecTechReport.pdf > - Also, we published a paper that talks more about the motivations behind > spec and itsadvantages.http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965I can send you a preprint in a direct message if you are unable to download > it. > > Greetings, > > On Apr 14, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Kenneth Payne <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a > little mystified by Spec. > > > > Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface > with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard > way to create a UI. > > > > I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI > description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML > representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - > ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of > the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a > button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the > label. And it's not a description it's just more code. > > > > The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to > create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using > Spec mainly just to assemble and position them. > > > > So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me: > > > > One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve? > > > > Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than > building it directly in Polymorph? > > > > Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they > are not models but UI components? > > > > Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is > it right? > > > > To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the > moment I'm just not getting it. > > > > Can anyone help me on this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > >

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Rationale behind Spec - questions

by Johan Fabry

Hi Kenneth, there is some literature on Spec that might help you out. - The tech report serves as a 'getting started' http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/70/80/67/PDF/SpecTechReport.pdf - Also, we published a paper that talks more about the motivations behind spec and itsadvantages.http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2448963.2448965 I can send you a preprint in a direct message if you are unable to download it. Greetings, On Apr 14, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Kenneth Payne <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a little mystified by Spec. > > Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard way to create a UI. > > I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the label. And it's not a description it's just more code. > > The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using Spec mainly just to assemble and position them. > > So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me: > > One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve? > > Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than building it directly in Polymorph? > > Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they are not models but UI components? > > Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is it right? > > To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the moment I'm just not getting it. > > Can anyone help me on this? > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Rationale behind Spec - questions

by Benjamin

Ben On Apr 15, 2013, at 8:15 AM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> wrote: > > On Apr 14, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Kenneth Payne <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> As a newcomer to smalltalk and Pharo I must say I love it - but I'm a little mystified by Spec. >> >> Just as I've got my head around Polymorph and can build an interface with UITheme builder, the paradigm has changed and Spec is the new standard way to create a UI. >> >> I read on a post that Polymorph is a UI framework but Spec is a UI description framework. But Spec isn't just a description like a XML representation of a UI - it brings new UI objects to the party - ButtonModel, LabelModel etc. But none of these have the rich properties of the corresponding Morphic objects. A ButtonModel looks nothing like a button, for example, and the LabelModel has nothing to set a font for the label. And it's not a description it's just more code. >> >> The only way I can see to create a rich interface using Spec is to create the interface using Morphs (and composite Morphs) and then using Spec mainly just to assemble and position them. >> >> So can someone wiser than I answer these questions for me: > > we have a paper explaining all that but we are waiting it to be accepted. > >> One, what is the purpose of Spec - what problem is it trying to solve? > > reuse of composable widgets. > >> Two, what advantages are there to building a UI in Spec rather than building it directly in Polymorph? > > been able to build the same with another UI framework. > Being able to build a UIPainter > how do you open a uipainter on widget that only have been defined using message? > you develop an interpreter? > >> Three, why are the objects caled ButtonModel, LableModel etc when they are not models but UI components? > > because they represent the logic of reuse and they are not widget. > >> Four, am I supposed to be assembling morphs using Spec? It works so is it right? > > there is a tutorial and a videos > Ben? First paper: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00759030/ Tech Report: http://hal.inria.fr/hal-00708067/ (a bit dry) About video, I am still processing the tutorial I have presented at Bern, but as soon as I have something, I will publicly announce it Have fun, Ben > > >> >> To sum up, I'm quite sure Spec is an important new feature but at the moment I'm just not getting it. >> >> Can anyone help me on this? >> >> >> >> >> >> > >

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] TreeListMorph or MorphTreeMorph

by Benjamin

It always make sense :) At the end, everything will be deprecated once :) Ben On Apr 15, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure it makes sense now if it gonna be deprecated. > > Hilaire > > Le 15/04/2013 08:16, stephane ducasse a Ã©crit : >> excellent please do. >> or in a class comment. >> >> >>> Le 14/04/2013 17:37, Benjamin a Ã©crit : >>>> But a new implementation is in the starting block :) >>>> Ben >>> >>> >>> I just started to write a few notes to get the logic, and was thinking I >>> could wrote a small note on the colaboractive book. >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu > >

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] TreeListMorph or MorphTreeMorph

by Goubier Thierry

Le 15/04/2013 11:29, Hilaire Fernandes a Ã©crit : > Le 15/04/2013 11:23, Goubier Thierry a Ã©crit : >> You can... >> >> Have one colum with a two levels tree in it, and an editing pane to edit >> the values (it's a quite common approach in other GUI worlds). >> >> Or a two-column morph with a two level tree like the settings manager; >> in the right colum you have the editing morph or nothing or a read-only >> morph. >> >> Would you be OK with the Settings browser approach? > > I think no, as it may consume too much place. You can imagine the second > column of the settings browser to be a canvas view in my case. The tree > view is a hierarchical view of the canvas to browse and to edit items > displayed in the canvas. Ok, so you would like the node morph in the tree to be editable in place, but only for the attributes? Single column MorphTreeMorph with nodes that you can edit? I found that if you set an editable morph as the node in a tree, then you can really edit it in the tree :) In that case, you may just need to change the nodeStringGetter: when you initialize your MorphTreeMorph. It will call asMorph on the result of calling that selector on your item; if you happen to build a morph as a reply then it should return it as it is. Just then, for your attributes, return a Morph containing a label and a text field well linked to your item. This should be cool to use :) I'll keep it in my good-ideas-to-try notebook :) Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Videos: Pharo from the CommandLine

by Camillo Bruni

cool :) On 2013-04-15, at 11:18, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Not yet combined with the screencast > > Pharo from the CommandLine > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8RNcXD94jk > now rendering & uploading: > Fuel & Tanker >

April 15, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] TreeListMorph or MorphTreeMorph

by Hilaire Fernandes

Le 15/04/2013 11:23, Goubier Thierry a Ã©crit : > You can... > > Have one colum with a two levels tree in it, and an editing pane to edit > the values (it's a quite common approach in other GUI worlds). > > Or a two-column morph with a two level tree like the settings manager; > in the right colum you have the editing morph or nothing or a read-only > morph. > > Would you be OK with the Settings browser approach? I think no, as it may consume too much place. You can imagine the second column of the settings browser to be a canvas view in my case. The tree view is a hierarchical view of the canvas to browse and to edit items displayed in the canvas. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

April 15, 2013