November 2013 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] I would rather pay for Smalltalkhub than use Github for free.

by kilon alios

I think its unrealistic to expect accurate numbers in any way other than going outside and asking each coder what language he uses and for what platform. None the less, its not hard at all to validate at least with a substantial level of inaccuracy the numbers indicated by TIOBE , sure some languages may jump 2 -3 spots up and down but still the general idea is there. Mobile is nowhere near replacing desktop. And why isolate yourself to TIOBE plenty of sources online to see what interests developers the most. The problem with mobile is that ergonomically it has no chance of replacing desktop, well, ever. And even though new mobile devices come out with substantial hardware specs, the quality of software is underwhelming even if you compare it with desktop 10 years ago. Even the trend of the "almost dead" desktop developers that port their apps to mobile is to created dumb down very limited apps of their desktop versions. I downloaded a first person shooter the other day , a simple game nothing that could even remotely compete with FPS behemoths of desktop or consoles , and I was amazed how cumbersome it was to even operate for simple action of shooting and walking around. I gave up after 20 minutes of suffering. I think mobile is great for what it is , mobile. I was a big supporter of iPad app as a musical tool in gearslutz forums when most musicians there declared it as "overly expensive toy" , I made the extremely unpopular prediction that it would be embraced by pro musicians and amateurs alike and that was back when iPad was still a new thing. But to claim that it will replace desktop , now thats a very bold claim. I have an iPad and android phone and android tablet. I am a fan of the mobile platform. I do believe in its potential. But killing the desktop, is like any rumor including the words "kill" or "dead" an urban myth. On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:33, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Are those the same people that a decade ago were proclaiming Java dead ? > It only takes a walk to TIOBE INDEX to see how much of a threat mobile > market is to desktop. > > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html > > > > http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/04/12/tiobe-or-not-tiobe-lies-damned-lies-and… > > > I am sure Angry Birds and Candy Crash Saga are substantial opponents to > Desktop but I don't see Windows sweating from agony any time soon. > > > On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > >> >> On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:11, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > I fail to see how Windows prohibited iPhone from appearing or anything >> in my quote saying that. They are not even in the same market. >> >> Yet, that old market is now in a very bad shape and people talk about the >> âdeath of the desktopâ. >> You do not need to be in the same market if you can make the old one >> obsolete. >> >> Marcus >> > > >

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] I would rather pay for Smalltalkhub than use Github for free.

by phil＠highoctane.be

Marcus, FWIW, you are inspiring. I am amazed on how you keep the thing going. Thanks for showing the high road. Phil

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] I would rather pay for Smalltalkhub than use Github for free.

by Yuriy Tymchuk

On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:33, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Are those the same people that a decade ago were proclaiming Java dead ? It only takes a walk to TIOBE INDEX to see how much of a threat mobile market is to desktop. > > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html > http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/04/12/tiobe-or-not-tiobe-lies-damned-lies-and… > I am sure Angry Birds and Candy Crash Saga are substantial opponents to Desktop but I don't see Windows sweating from agony any time soon. > > > On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:11, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I fail to see how Windows prohibited iPhone from appearing or anything in my quote saying that. They are not even in the same market. > > Yet, that old market is now in a very bad shape and people talk about the âdeath of the desktopâ. > You do not need to be in the same market if you can make the old one obsolete. > > Marcus >

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] I would rather pay for Smalltalkhub than use Github for free.

by kilon alios

Are those the same people that a decade ago were proclaiming Java dead ? It only takes a walk to TIOBE INDEX to see how much of a threat mobile market is to desktop. http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html I am sure Angry Birds and Candy Crash Saga are substantial opponents to Desktop but I don't see Windows sweating from agony any time soon. On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:11, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I fail to see how Windows prohibited iPhone from appearing or anything > in my quote saying that. They are not even in the same market. > > Yet, that old market is now in a very bad shape and people talk about the > âdeath of the desktopâ. > You do not need to be in the same market if you can make the old one > obsolete. > > Marcus >

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Building a simple UI with Spec. Problem with menus.

by nacho

Thanks for your prompt responses. I guess the wise advise is...wait a little but I seldom follow the wise advice so I will continue to try to solve this ;) I've been trying with ComposableModel>>#WindowModel with no luck as it seems that though the method is implemented in #WindowModel it seems to be inoperative. cheers Nacho -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Building-a-simple-UI-with-Spec-Problem-with-menus-tp4… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] I would rather pay for Smalltalkhub than use Github for free.

by Yuriy Tymchuk

On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:17, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:11, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I fail to see how Windows prohibited iPhone from appearing or anything in my quote saying that. They are not even in the same market. > > Yet, that old market is now in a very bad shape and people talk about the âdeath of the desktopâ. > You do not need to be in the same market if you can make the old one obsolete. > > Marcus I think that we should be passionate about what we are doing. Look at Scala for example. Itâs becoming quite popular, and it was developed for 10 years. Pharo still has a lot of time to attract people, but we need to push something new. Itâs not java like smalltalk, or something smalltalk-inspired that looks like C. For me Pharo is what had to happen to Smalltalk: evolution. Usually Smalltalk is mentioned with â80â suffix. Pharo is Smalltalk2013. And we can make it really cool, but we should stick to smalltalk philosophy. Having tools, working with objects, etc...

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] I would rather pay for Smalltalkhub than use Github for free.

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:11, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I fail to see how Windows prohibited iPhone from appearing or anything in my quote saying that. They are not even in the same market. Yet, that old market is now in a very bad shape and people talk about the âdeath of the desktopâ. You do not need to be in the same market if you can make the old one obsolete. Marcus

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] I would rather pay for Smalltalkhub than use Github for free.

by kilon alios

I fail to see how Windows prohibited iPhone from appearing or anything in my quote saying that. They are not even in the same market. Well there is windows mobile and now windows 8 for phones and tablets but both are far from monopoly products. Plus iPhone is not even an OS unless you were referring to iOS. I was talking about desktop's future. For your quote to work it would imply Microsoft having monopoly to anything. Fortunately that is not the case. They are big but nowhere near that big. But if they did, well you would be agreeing right now with me ;) On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On 03 Nov 2013, at 18:54, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yeah I cant say I agree with Mr Kay my answer to his quote will be that > he is wrong and that "the best way to predict the future is to create a > monopolyâ . > > Yes, in 2007, the iPhone showed that âWe can not do anything because > Microsoftâ was just wrong. > > Marcus >

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Building a simple UI with Spec. Problem with menus.

by Benjamin

On 03 Nov 2013, at 19:05, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > nacho wrote: >> Hi, this is my first post in the Pharo group. >> I'm developing a simple Text Editor with some nice features as a way to >> understand how Spec works. It seems that Spec will be the default UI >> framework from Pharo 3 onwards, I know it's changing and evolving but I'll >> take the risk. >> The problem I'm facing is that I'm lost at trying to add a "Save as..." >> option in the menu. >> It seems that Spec is still using the Morphic MenuMorph>>ToggleMenuItemMorph >> but it's not clear to me hoy to add this item. >> On the other hand, inspecting the ComposableModel class, it seem that in the >> future this will be done directly in Spec as suggested by the >> ComposableModel>>addMenuItemsToWindowMenu: >> But so far that method simply says "do nothing". >> Any help? >> Thanks in advance >> Cheers >> Nacho >> >> > Check ComposableModel subclass WindowModel. I believe #addMenuItemsToWindowMenu: is just for the Window Menu (the small downward pointing arrow in the title bar) - so it doesn't apply to other ComposableModel subclasses like ListModel, etc. > > cheers -ben You believe right :) It is indeed for the Window menu. But it applies to any ComposableModel is the sense that when added to a window, the menu entries will be added. But yo were right in the sense that it does not apply to what I call basic widgets (like ListModel TextModel etc). Ben

Nov. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Building a simple UI with Spec. Problem with menus.

by Benjamin

Hello and welcome :) On 03 Nov 2013, at 18:36, nacho <0800nacho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, this is my first post in the Pharo group. > I'm developing a simple Text Editor with some nice features as a way to > understand how Spec works. It seems that Spec will be the default UI > framework from Pharo 3 onwards, I know it's changing and evolving but I'll > take the risk. Good to hear :) It is quite changing now, but should not change a lot starting from now (plus a couple of days waiting for the last changes to be integrated). > The problem I'm facing is that I'm lost at trying to add a "Save as..." > option in the menu. As far as I know, there is a bug in TextModel where the menu is hardcoded, and therefor can not be changed. In addition, as you have said, it is currently using directly Morphic menus that is bad. The issue 12051 [1] introduces Spec models for menus. The fix has yet to be integrated. So there are two solutions :) 1) You wait a bit tip this issue is integrated, and the TextModel problem solved (which should be done tonight) 2) You load locally the patches so you can try :) If you wanna do so you need to take the latest image and to merge the slices: - 11920 (this one will give you merge conflicts, you can safely take all the incoming versions) - 12051. - 11819 as soon as it is fixed > It seems that Spec is still using the Morphic MenuMorph>>ToggleMenuItemMorph > but it's not clear to me hoy to add this item. > On the other hand, inspecting the ComposableModel class, it seem that in the > future this will be done directly in Spec as suggested by the > ComposableModel>>addMenuItemsToWindowMenu: This method is to add custom menu entries to the window menu :) Ben > But so far that method simply says "do nothing". > Any help? > Thanks in advance > Cheers > Nacho > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Building-a-simple-UI-with-Spec-Problem-with-menus-tp4… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > [1] https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?12051

Nov. 3, 2013