January 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by Nick Smith

This is very timely. For last three years I have been trying to get my Rails developer friend (they build fairly large scale educational products) to take a look at Pharo/Seaside/Gemstone... and, funnily enough, the last time we discussed this was 3 days ago over lunch at our local Cafe. But this time he didn't say anything. He just passed me his iPad and showed me the Heroku app managing live performance and services of their applications, with real time monitoring for any latency or bottlenecks issues. He told me they could not seriously consider moving to another language/framework without the same peace of mind of knowing the back-end was well taken care of, so they could focus on development... and know that scaling their applications was no longer an issue. It seems that for most enterprises, hosted 'back-end management' is now the single most important factor in the decision making process of what language/framework to go with. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Phaas-anyone-interested-in-setting-up-Pharo-as-a-Serv… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 28, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by Geert Claes

While it is great that one can actually use Smalltalk in Cloud Foundry ... it does require a lot of steps to get it going. Having said that reckon it would be interresting to have an easy to use Pharo-as-a-Service. For persistence maybe rely on things like MongoLab or MongoHQ so you don't have to worry about that? fstephany wrote > http://programminggems.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/adding-smalltalk-to-cloud-f… > > http://programminggems.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/using-mysql-in-aida-on-phar… > > https://programminggems.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/using-mysql-from-smalltalk… > > Are the three articles describing it :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Phaas-anyone-interested-in-setting-up-Pharo-as-a-Serv… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 28, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Re Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by Geert Claes

Those providers are listed on the .org site at: http://core.cloudfoundry.org/listings Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote > Just a side-note: according to Wikipedia article [1] there are already > some commercial PaaS providers based on CloudFork: > - Uhuru Software, Inc. is one company that has created a AppCloud > using Cloud Foundry. Uhuru's PaaS provides support for multiple > frameworks (.NET, Rails, and Spring) and languages (Java, Ruby, PHP, > and C#). > - AppFog hosts their PaaS on Amazon Web Services, OpenStack and Windows > Azure.[1] [2] > - ActiveState is a company that has created a commercial distribution > of the Cloud Foundry software for enterprises to host their own > private PaaS. Their product has support for additional languages and > frameworks, an adds a dashboard and security protocols.[3] > - Tier 3 is a company that has created an Enterprise-oriented PaaS > combining Cloud Foundry with their Iron Foundry OSS Project that > provides .NET and SQL Server Support. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Re-Phaas-anyone-interested-in-setting-up-Pharo-as-a-S… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 28, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Re Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by James Foster

On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:51 AM, Andy Burnett <andy.burnett(a)knowinnovation.com> wrote: >> I built CloudFoundry so that you uploaded a .st file (in my ESUG example it was 'aida.st') that was used to build the image. The server executed the .st file and saved the resulting image (it could load .mcz files directly or execute a Metacello script). Whenever your application was needed, a copy of the saved image was used. >> >> James Foster > > James, can I check a few assumptions - I want to make sure I am not > putting words in VMWare's mouth, or missing an opportunity. Janko has done a good job of summarizing the current situation. > 1. Is it the case that CloudFoundry.com has no current plans to offer > gemstone as a hosted option? I am not aware of any such plans, and at the present time I think it would be unlikely. (Note that we are completely different teams in different locations in different parts of a large organization. My knowledge of and interaction with the Cloud Foundry team is essentially the same as that of anyone else who forked their code on GitHub.) As Janko noted, cloudfoundry.com is still in beta and the commercial arrangements are not yet formalized. I believe that Cloud Foundry will be part of the VMware/EMC spin-off (as will GemStone), so there is a bit more uncertainty than usual. > 2. Your work on getting Aida to run was targeted at the > cloudfoundry.org, And therefore it would require someone to set up a > separate hosting operation - using the cloudfoundry code - in order > for us to use your work? Yes. As Janko noted there are others doing the same thing. > If 1 and 2 are true, is there anyway that we can use the .com side in > pursuit of this PhaaS objective? I assume not, but I would hate to > miss the simple fix :-) Speaking as an observer of business operations (not as a VMware employee), I suspect that the best way would be to demonstrate commercial feasibility. James Foster > Cheers > Andy

Jan. 27, 2013

MenuMorph - dual column?

by Ben Coman

I have a MenuMorph with too many items, such that it fills the screen top to bottom and there are still some not shown. Is there some inbuilt way to have the menu come up in two columns? I could otherwise work at manually segregating menuitems into submenus, but the menus are dynamically generated and I'd prefer multiple columns. cheers -ben

Jan. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by Francois Stephany

On 27/01/13 07:04, James Foster wrote: > On Jan 26, 2013, at 7:30 AM, Francois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 26/01/13 02:02, Andy Burnett wrote: >>> Our requirements are pretty simple. We need a way of uploading an image, >>> and some standard for of persistence. At this point, we would be >>> perfectly happy to make compromises by agreeing that it had to be e.g. >>> Mongo or whatever (although ideally it would be gemstone). We just want >>> to make some progress on this. >> >> I would prefer to upload a MetacelloConfiguration (or something similar) instead of an image. > > I built CloudFoundry so that you uploaded a .st file (in my ESUG example it was 'aida.st') that was used to build the image. The server executed the .st file and saved the resulting image (it could load .mcz files directly or execute a Metacello script). Whenever your application was needed, a copy of the saved image was used. That sounds great. http://programminggems.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/adding-smalltalk-to-cloud-f… http://programminggems.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/using-mysql-in-aida-on-phar… https://programminggems.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/using-mysql-from-smalltalk… Are the three articles describing it :) Thanks James

Jan. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Re Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Just a side-note: according to Wikipedia article [1] there are already some commercial PaaS providers based on CloudFork: - Uhuru Software, Inc. is one company that has created a AppCloud using Cloud Foundry. Uhuru's PaaS provides support for multiple frameworks (.NET, Rails, and Spring) and languages (Java, Ruby, PHP, and C#). - AppFog hosts their PaaS on Amazon Web Services, OpenStack and Windows Azure.[1] [2] - ActiveState is a company that has created a commercial distribution of the Cloud Foundry software for enterprises to host their own private PaaS. Their product has support for additional languages and frameworks, an adds a dashboard and security protocols.[3] - Tier 3 is a company that has created an Enterprise-oriented PaaS combining Cloud Foundry with their Iron Foundry OSS Project that provides .NET and SQL Server Support. About commercial cloudfoundry.com: As of September 2012, this service is still in beta and pricing is not yet determined. So, question is, what are long-term VMware plans with CloudFoundry, and in this light, maybe supporting another provider like proposed OpenShift is not a bad idea, for many reasons: - more experience will be gained running on the another cloud - more general PhaaS, which can run on more than one cloud - more independent of cloud providers Best regards Janko [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Foundry Dne 27. 01. 2013 12:51, piÅ¡e Andy Burnett: >>> . >> >> I built CloudFoundry so that you uploaded a .st file (in my ESUG example it was 'aida.st') that was used to build the image. The server executed the .st file and saved the resulting image (it could load .mcz files directly or execute a Metacello script). Whenever your application was needed, a copy of the saved image was used. >> >> James Foster > > James, can I check a few assumptions - I want to make sure I am not > putting words in VMWare's mouth, or missing an opportunity. > > 1. Is it the case that CloudFoundry.com has no current plans to offer > gemstone as a hosted option? > > 2. Your work on getting Aida to run was targeted at the > cloudfoundry.org, And therefore it would require someone to set up a > separate hosting operation - using the cloudfoundry code - in order > for us to use your work? > > If 1 and 2 are true, is there anyway that we can use the .com side in > pursuit of this PhaaS objective? I assume not, but I would hate to > miss the simple fix :-) > > Cheers > Andy > > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Jan. 27, 2013

Re Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by Andy Burnett

>> . > > I built CloudFoundry so that you uploaded a .st file (in my ESUG example it was 'aida.st') that was used to build the image. The server executed the .st file and saved the resulting image (it could load .mcz files directly or execute a Metacello script). Whenever your application was needed, a copy of the saved image was used. > > James Foster James, can I check a few assumptions - I want to make sure I am not putting words in VMWare's mouth, or missing an opportunity. 1. Is it the case that CloudFoundry.com has no current plans to offer gemstone as a hosted option? 2. Your work on getting Aida to run was targeted at the cloudfoundry.org, And therefore it would require someone to set up a separate hosting operation - using the cloudfoundry code - in order for us to use your work? If 1 and 2 are true, is there anyway that we can use the .com side in pursuit of this PhaaS objective? I assume not, but I would hate to miss the simple fix :-) Cheers Andy

Jan. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by Esteban Lorenzano

also... the capability to upload images is not contrary to the capability to prepare them before put them online :) I imagine it could be an "incremental" process: first a service to put images online, after a service to prepare them :) btw, I think you'll need a special vm (the guys from netstyle have a custom vm in seasidehosting, for security issues (onether btw: we should have a CMakeMaker config to produce such a special VM... and a jenkins job... well, dreams...) cheers, Esteban On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:41 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >> >> I'm not aware of any. >> Tanker[1] + Metacello are maybe an answer for the loading time issue. >> >> >> [1]: http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/new-tanker-current-status/ > > But it requires some work to make it production ready. > I do not think that you need ston. You plain smalltalk code is good enough to trigger the correct metacello file. > > metacello is key for the projects dependency management and complex projects. > Once we will have the continuous validation of pckage ready + binary loader we will get ready for a new phase > in Pharo. > > Stef

Jan. 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Phaas - anyone interested in setting up Pharo as a Service?

by James Foster

On Jan 26, 2013, at 7:30 AM, Francois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 26/01/13 02:02, Andy Burnett wrote: >> Our requirements are pretty simple. We need a way of uploading an image, >> and some standard for of persistence. At this point, we would be >> perfectly happy to make compromises by agreeing that it had to be e.g. >> Mongo or whatever (although ideally it would be gemstone). We just want >> to make some progress on this. > > I would prefer to upload a MetacelloConfiguration (or something similar) instead of an image. I built CloudFoundry so that you uploaded a .st file (in my ESUG example it was 'aida.st') that was used to build the image. The server executed the .st file and saved the resulting image (it could load .mcz files directly or execute a Metacello script). Whenever your application was needed, a copy of the saved image was used. James Foster

Jan. 27, 2013