January 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Getting started with Gemstone for Pharo users

by Bernat Romagosa

I see, thanks for the answers! What about moving all the data to the new Gemstone configuration? Is it possible to materialize Fuel graphs from within Gemstone? 2013/1/29 Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> > I'm sure the gemstone guys will chime in with more details. > > Iliad does not have to run in the GemTools image. No need to get 0.9.1.2 > to run in older Pharo versions. You just use the GemTools image as the IDE > for Gemstone. So start the GemTools image and connect to the stone and use > it to load Iliad 0.9.1.2 into Gemstone by running the Gemstone specific > Monticelo or workspace or browsers. > > > > > > On Jan 29, 2013, at 5:22 AM, Bernat Romagosa < > tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi list, > > > > I've heard the "develop in Pharo, deploy in Gemstone" idea a million > times, and I'd like to understand how people proceed in real-world cases. > > > > I've done my homework and I've watched and read a lot of beginner > tutorials, but I still have lots of pieces missing. Here's our scenario: > > > > We have a web app, built on Pharo 1.4 and Iliad 0.9.1.2. Currently, we > handle persistence on the image and we have a scheduler process doing > regular Fuel backups every 10 minutes, and we also keep daily backups in > case things go wrong. > > > > The app is starting to gain momentum, and it feels like things are going > to start being way too sluggish soon, so we need to scale. > > > > We've been trying many different persistence approaches, but we'd love > to stay inside Smalltalk. We hate having to flatten and pump back our > objects all the time. Also, REST apis to any kind of DB are not good enough > for us, every o(n) operation becomes unbearably slow, as n REST calls must > be sent out and n answers received. > > > > In short, we want to use Gemstone, as we've read it's best for complex, > intertwined Smalltalk models, and it scales like crazy. > > > > We'd be okay with Pharo being the "dealer" between clients and the DB, > but as I understand, GemTools can't be installed on Pharo 1.4, so we're > kind of stuck with an old Pharo 1.1.1 image, in which Iliad 0.9.1.2 can't > be installed. > > > > What's the solution here? How does one proceed to migrate an app of this > kind? We've developed in Pharo, now how does one accomplish the "deploy in > Gemstone" part? > > > > Any pointers to documentation, blog posts or whatever will be so much > appreciated. > > > > Thanks a lot in advance, > > > > Bernat. > > > > -- > > Bernat Romagosa. > > -- Bernat Romagosa.

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] world menu shortcut

by Guillermo Polito

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Peter H. Meadows < > peter.h.meadows(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Is there a keyboard shortcut to open the world menu from anywhere? >> >> > I remember I asked the same some time ago to Guille Polito. > But as far as I remember there wasn't. > Guille, now that we have KeyBindings in the image, could we add this? > I played once with that and was easy... The worse part of assigning new shortcuts is finding a good key combination :). > >> How about adding a button to the taskbar? >> > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Getting started with Gemstone for Pharo users

by Paul DeBruicker

I'm sure the gemstone guys will chime in with more details. Iliad does not have to run in the GemTools image. No need to get 0.9.1.2 to run in older Pharo versions. You just use the GemTools image as the IDE for Gemstone. So start the GemTools image and connect to the stone and use it to load Iliad 0.9.1.2 into Gemstone by running the Gemstone specific Monticelo or workspace or browsers. On Jan 29, 2013, at 5:22 AM, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi list, > > I've heard the "develop in Pharo, deploy in Gemstone" idea a million times, and I'd like to understand how people proceed in real-world cases. > > I've done my homework and I've watched and read a lot of beginner tutorials, but I still have lots of pieces missing. Here's our scenario: > > We have a web app, built on Pharo 1.4 and Iliad 0.9.1.2. Currently, we handle persistence on the image and we have a scheduler process doing regular Fuel backups every 10 minutes, and we also keep daily backups in case things go wrong. > > The app is starting to gain momentum, and it feels like things are going to start being way too sluggish soon, so we need to scale. > > We've been trying many different persistence approaches, but we'd love to stay inside Smalltalk. We hate having to flatten and pump back our objects all the time. Also, REST apis to any kind of DB are not good enough for us, every o(n) operation becomes unbearably slow, as n REST calls must be sent out and n answers received. > > In short, we want to use Gemstone, as we've read it's best for complex, intertwined Smalltalk models, and it scales like crazy. > > We'd be okay with Pharo being the "dealer" between clients and the DB, but as I understand, GemTools can't be installed on Pharo 1.4, so we're kind of stuck with an old Pharo 1.1.1 image, in which Iliad 0.9.1.2 can't be installed. > > What's the solution here? How does one proceed to migrate an app of this kind? We've developed in Pharo, now how does one accomplish the "deploy in Gemstone" part? > > Any pointers to documentation, blog posts or whatever will be so much appreciated. > > Thanks a lot in advance, > > Bernat. > > -- > Bernat Romagosa.

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Getting started with Gemstone for Pharo users

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi Bernat, what you do usually is to develop in pharo, then create a metacello configuration, and install it in gemstone (using topaz, or something), maybe with some compatibility adds (metacello can handle that in case of need). No GemTools, or anything... AFAIK, gemtools is a way to retrieve objects from gemstone into your non-gemstone application, using it as a regular database. Deploying in gemstone, you can thought on it more as an application server with orthogonal persistence :) Esteban On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Bernat Romagosa <tibabenfortlapalanca(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi list, > > I've heard the "develop in Pharo, deploy in Gemstone" idea a million times, and I'd like to understand how people proceed in real-world cases. > > I've done my homework and I've watched and read a lot of beginner tutorials, but I still have lots of pieces missing. Here's our scenario: > > We have a web app, built on Pharo 1.4 and Iliad 0.9.1.2. Currently, we handle persistence on the image and we have a scheduler process doing regular Fuel backups every 10 minutes, and we also keep daily backups in case things go wrong. > > The app is starting to gain momentum, and it feels like things are going to start being way too sluggish soon, so we need to scale. > > We've been trying many different persistence approaches, but we'd love to stay inside Smalltalk. We hate having to flatten and pump back our objects all the time. Also, REST apis to any kind of DB are not good enough for us, every o(n) operation becomes unbearably slow, as n REST calls must be sent out and n answers received. > > In short, we want to use Gemstone, as we've read it's best for complex, intertwined Smalltalk models, and it scales like crazy. > > We'd be okay with Pharo being the "dealer" between clients and the DB, but as I understand, GemTools can't be installed on Pharo 1.4, so we're kind of stuck with an old Pharo 1.1.1 image, in which Iliad 0.9.1.2 can't be installed. > > What's the solution here? How does one proceed to migrate an app of this kind? We've developed in Pharo, now how does one accomplish the "deploy in Gemstone" part? > > Any pointers to documentation, blog posts or whatever will be so much appreciated. > > Thanks a lot in advance, > > Bernat. > > -- > Bernat Romagosa.

Jan. 29, 2013

Getting started with Gemstone for Pharo users

by Bernat Romagosa

Hi list, I've heard the "develop in Pharo, deploy in Gemstone" idea a million times, and I'd like to understand how people proceed in real-world cases. I've done my homework and I've watched and read a lot of beginner tutorials, but I still have lots of pieces missing. Here's our scenario: We have a web app, built on Pharo 1.4 and Iliad 0.9.1.2. Currently, we handle persistence on the image and we have a scheduler process doing regular Fuel backups every 10 minutes, and we also keep daily backups in case things go wrong. The app is starting to gain momentum, and it feels like things are going to start being way too sluggish soon, so we need to scale. We've been trying many different persistence approaches, but we'd love to stay inside Smalltalk. We hate having to flatten and pump back our objects all the time. Also, REST apis to any kind of DB are not good enough for us, every o(n) operation becomes unbearably slow, as n REST calls must be sent out and n answers received. In short, we want to use Gemstone, as we've read it's best for complex, intertwined Smalltalk models, and it scales like crazy. We'd be okay with Pharo being the "dealer" between clients and the DB, but as I understand, GemTools can't be installed on Pharo 1.4, so we're kind of stuck with an old Pharo 1.1.1 image, in which Iliad 0.9.1.2 can't be installed. What's the solution here? How does one proceed to migrate an app of this kind? We've developed in Pharo, now how does one accomplish the "deploy in Gemstone" part? Any pointers to documentation, blog posts or whatever will be so much appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance, Bernat. -- Bernat Romagosa.

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] world menu shortcut

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Peter H. Meadows < peter.h.meadows(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > Is there a keyboard shortcut to open the world menu from anywhere? > > I remember I asked the same some time ago to Guille Polito. But as far as I remember there wasn't. Guille, now that we have KeyBindings in the image, could we add this? > How about adding a button to the taskbar? > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] tuesday we will do a coding sprint here at Santiago

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sean P. DeNigris wrote > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote >> I guess starting around 9h30 > Great, I want to play. I'll be online and available via > Skype/phone/IRC/smoke-signals/whatever bright and early (I think that's > 0730 in NY time)... Have you guys started yet? I'm on the pharo IRC channel and can Skype if necessary... -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/tuesday-we-will-do-a-coding-sprint-here-at-Santiago-t… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] tuesday we will do a coding sprint here at Santiago

by Peter H. Meadows

I would. It would be a nice thing for the community to have. (Plus I'm an anarchist so I don't care what the law says. I only care about behaving in an ethical way. But this isn't the list for philosophy :-) But I think porting OQ is beyond my skill level at the moment :( I suppose people who think only MIT code is worth spending time on could port OpenCobalt to Pharo.. that would be nice... On 29 January 2013 07:17, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:09 AM, Peter H. Meadows < > peter.h.meadows(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > > > But isn't squeak MIT license now? And OpenQwaq uses squeak. So I don't > see why we couldn't in theory port it to Pharo (not that anyone is going to > any time soon; I'm told it would be a lot of work). > > > > But who would invest his life into this is the resulting code base is GPL > and can't server as the foundation > to build my/our/the future? > > Marcus >

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] tuesday we will do a coding sprint here at Santiago

by Marcus Denker

On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:09 AM, Peter H. Meadows <peter.h.meadows(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > But isn't squeak MIT license now? And OpenQwaq uses squeak. So I don't see why we couldn't in theory port it to Pharo (not that anyone is going to any time soon; I'm told it would be a lot of work). > But who would invest his life into this is the resulting code base is GPL and can't server as the foundation to build my/our/the future? Marcus

Jan. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] tuesday we will do a coding sprint here at Santiago

by Peter H. Meadows

But isn't squeak MIT license now? And OpenQwaq uses squeak. So I don't see why we couldn't in theory port it to Pharo (not that anyone is going to any time soon; I'm told it would be a lot of work). But anyway. Wouldn't it be really cool to do virtual Pharo code sprints in OpenCobalt or qwaq ? Has anyone tried OC or OQ for pair programming? On 29 January 2013 06:52, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:21 AM, "Peter H. Meadows" < > peter.h.meadows(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > > > So? That doesn't mean we can't run it in Pharo, does it? > > > > GPL is very complicated in Smalltalk. As soon as you distribute the image, > the viral part kicks > in. > > It's even a question if this means that the MIT parts then magically have > to be GPL, too > (which they can not). > I think the FSF counts MIT as compatible in the sense that you can > mix code bases without having to make the MIT code GPL, but of course the > more strong > one is the only one that matters when the overall system is distributed > together. > > It is hard to find a reason why anyone would invest into a code base like > that (other than > the company that has the copyright so for them, they can use another > license when distributing). > > Even the FSF uses a less strict license for code that people are supposed > to link to, a Linux > where every program would be forced to be GPL would never have been > successful. > > You can't build a platform like this. > > Marcus > > >

Jan. 29, 2013