January 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Rendering text to bitmap buffer then paintImage to a canvas

by Jesus NuÃ±ez

@Igor, I think my post was deleted because was in the wrong place, but "NBCallout initialize" did the trick with my last issue thank you so much again for caring, Cheers 2013/1/12 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > On 12 January 2013 03:16, Jesus NuÃ±ez <poissonbreaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > @Igor Thanks for the aclaration, I am quite new to pharo and I just > wanted > > to help with what I've seen > > > No problem. > I need to finish that thing.. > the dilemma there is that supporting old fashing text rendering is not > going to show good results. > Writing a new text support + layout is another piece of work, we're > just started.. but it if far from > finishing. > > But do not confuse: you can render strings with any truetype font > using Athens, but what you cannot > do is to use it for rendering TextMorph(s) contents. > Because TextMorph is heavily hardcoded for using balloon canvas.. with > lots of optimizations > and complexity. > > > Cheers > > > > > > 2013/1/11 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> > >> > >> Thanks Igor. That was exactly what I was looking for. > >> > >> > >> Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>> > >>> On 10 January 2013 14:42, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> I need to improve the performance of a lot of text that drawn on > screen > >>>> while the screen is being dragged around and would like to experiment > >>>> with > >>>> rendering the text to a bitmap buffer then painting that onto a > canvas. > >>>> How > >>>> might that be achieved? And from Workspace can I test this? I have > >>>> been > >>>> searching for a couple of hours already so thought I'd just ask. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> easy. > >>> > >>> form := Form extent: 100@100 depth: 32. > >>> > >>> canvas := form getCanvas. > >>> canvas drawString... whatever. > >>> > >>> and then: > >>> > >>> displayCanvas drawImage: form. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> cheers -ben > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > >

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] This is a test

by Jesus NuÃ±ez

Thanks Marcus 2013/1/12 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > Normally you should always get a new thread when you don't reply to an > existing mailâ¦ > > On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Jesus NuÃ±ez <poissonbreaker(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I am doing a test of how to open a new thread from gmail in the pharo > mailisting. Can somebody confirm this is a new thread, I just have never > try from inside my email. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jesus > > >

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] This is a test

by Marcus Denker

Normally you should always get a new thread when you don't reply to an existing mailâ¦ On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Jesus NuÃ±ez <poissonbreaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am doing a test of how to open a new thread from gmail in the pharo mailisting. Can somebody confirm this is a new thread, I just have never try from inside my email. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jesus

Jan. 12, 2013

This is a test

by Jesus NuÃ±ez

I am doing a test of how to open a new thread from gmail in the pharo mailisting. Can somebody confirm this is a new thread, I just have never try from inside my email. Thanks in advance, Jesus

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do I save contents of Workspace into a collection?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 12 Jan 2013, at 09:28, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Guys > > We love all your ideas and feedback. Now do you have an idea of the ratio > Intelligent vs Pharo > Eclispe vs Pharo > in terms of payed engineering time? Yes, but we work in the best environment in the world with enthusiasm, love and passion, that is our secret weapon ;-) > Stef > > On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > >> Frank Church wrote: >>> >>> Hi Igor, >>> >>> I am new to Smalltalk but not new to programming and I am into my >>> first 14 hrs into learning it with Pharo. >>> >> Good to have you on board Frank. It will be interesting to follow your experience in becoming proficient in Smalltalk & Pharo. I am just coming up on a year of using Smalltalk/Pharo. There are a lot of hidden depths and I learn a lot watching the mail list for answers to questions that I hadn't thought of asking yet. So fire away. >> I'll just mention a few things that I have learned that make it easier to plumb the system for examples. >> Also see http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/pharo-tips-and-tricks/ >>> As I was trying to work out the right syntax it brought to mind the >>> thoughts of Brendan Eich, Gilad Bracha and Lars Bak who said the >>> familar syntax (Algol/C style) of languages like Javascript, Go and >>> Dart was chosen to make it easier for programmers familiar with C, >>> Pascal etcetera to starting using. them, rather than learn a whole new >>> paradigm, even at the cost of complicated parsing and language >>> structure. >>> >> The flipside is that it makes it easier to continue operating with your old paradigms in a hybrid manner, preventing you gaining the most 'stretch' most from a new paradigm. >> That is a very personal choice depending on what you want to gain from new learnings. However the main paradigm shift of Smalltalk is not its syntax but its 'live environment'. >>> If I was using Eclipse IDE for instance, at every step I could use >>> auto-completion and the documentation to decide what follows from >>> what, even in a domain I had no familiarity with, but Smalltalk >>> doesn't lend itself to that approach. >>> >> I was going to just ask for some examples of what you particularly liked in Eclipse. We can learn from other systems. However with a quick browse I found [1]. Do you have anything to add to that? >> [1] http://eclipse.org/recommenders/documentation/usr.html >> >> A few thoughts in response... >> >> _Intelligent Code Templates_ - "But code templates /really/ shine when developers have to use APIs they are not very familiar with. Then, code templates serve as additional documentation that quickly shows how an API can be used and save developers lot of time otherwise needed for reading API documentation. Eclipse maintains more than 70 of such Java code templates" >> >> Within Smalltalk, rather than 70 templates you have the whole system. If you are browsing a class and see a method which seems like what you want, click <Senders> to get an idea of how to use them. Another way to learn the system is to temporarily edit any method to insert a 'self haltOnce' then 'World-menu > System > Enable halt/inspect once' which will bring up a debugger where you can explore the call chain to see a live demonstration of how that method is used. The reason to use #haltOnce rather than #halt is that method might be used by the display system and you wold end up locking the image with cascading halts as the display loop runs. Using halos, you can <Duplicate> that menu item and leave it sitting on the background as a button for easy access. >> >> You can highlight any method and use <cmd-n> or <cmd-m> to get a list of senders & implementors of that method. I often find myself following several levels to understand a chain of calls. >> >> Learn the difference in using the <Into> <Over>& <Through> buttons when debugging (eg from the Workspace context menu) something like '#(1 2 3 4) do: [ :x | Transcript crShow: x].' For quite a while I had missed using <Through> properly which hamstrung me when tracing code and not wanting to trace the machinery of how #do: worked. >> >> _Intelligent Overrides Completion_ & _Subclassing Directives_ & _Self-call Directives_ >> These look interesting, in particular if they bought up examples from public repositories outside the image. >> >>> With spoken languages even without proper syntax or phrasing a person >>> who knows the language can deduce what you are trying to say but with >>> computers you either get it right or the computer stares back at you >>> blankly. >>> >>> As an experienced programmer I am trying to accomplish something >>> non-trivial as hard and as fast as I can with Squeak, Pharo and their >>> supporting libraries and ecosystem and the only way is to bombard the >>> mailing lists and forums. You could say I am trying to understand how >>> the language constructs can support my intentions as fast as I can. >>> >>> With respect to the above I can truthfully say that at this juncture I >>> don't know what it all means, from the theoretical view point, nor >>> from the practical perspective of what I am trying to accomplish, >>> which is why the questions are flying in so thick and fast. >>> >>> >>> Last of all - teachers please, I don't want to go to Smalltalk >>> kindergarten. I have done too much programming in my life to be put in >>> kindergarten when I start Smalltalk. >>> The problem here is although one can learn from reading examples, it >>> can be hard to understand the language constructs unless they are >>> derived from one's own use cases, and this is why my questions have >>> been coming in so thick and fast. >>> >>> >>> >> Even in light of that wanting to use your own use cases, there is one example I would recommend [2] - since it is the best demonstration I've seen of the paradigm shift of programming in Squeak/Pharo's live environment. It is not entirely trivial - it took me a couple of days to get through it - but the main reason I recommend it is that it is more than a code example. It is a demonstration the power of the system to refactor as the design evolves from concept to deployment. The author exposes errors in design and how best to use the debugger. Kind of a "this is how things are done in Smalltalk". YMMV but I personally found it useful to help me change my approach from previous programming languages. It is actually one of the main things that mad me focus more on Smalltalk. You would need to temporarily regress a few years to use Squeak 3.9 to match the article, then come back to use the latest and greatest in current Pharo. >> >> [2] http://squeak.preeminent.org/tut2007/html/index.html >> >> cheers -ben >> > >

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do I save contents of Workspace into a collection?

by Ben Coman

forgot to mention, I also regularly refer to the "Terse Guide to Squeak" http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5699 Ben Coman wrote: > Frank Church wrote: >> >> Hi Igor, >> >> I am new to Smalltalk but not new to programming and I am into my >> first 14 hrs into learning it with Pharo. >> > Good to have you on board Frank. It will be interesting to follow > your experience in becoming proficient in Smalltalk & Pharo. I am > just coming up on a year of using Smalltalk/Pharo. There are a lot of > hidden depths and I learn a lot watching the mail list for answers to > questions that I hadn't thought of asking yet. So fire away. > I'll just mention a few things that I have learned that make it easier > to plumb the system for examples. > Also see > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/pharo-tips-and-tricks/ >> As I was trying to work out the right syntax it brought to mind the >> thoughts of Brendan Eich, Gilad Bracha and Lars Bak who said the >> familar syntax (Algol/C style) of languages like Javascript, Go and >> Dart was chosen to make it easier for programmers familiar with C, >> Pascal etcetera to starting using. them, rather than learn a whole new >> paradigm, even at the cost of complicated parsing and language >> structure. >> > The flipside is that it makes it easier to continue operating with > your old paradigms in a hybrid manner, preventing you gaining the most > 'stretch' most from a new paradigm. > That is a very personal choice depending on what you want to gain from > new learnings. However the main paradigm shift of Smalltalk is not > its syntax but its 'live environment'. >> If I was using Eclipse IDE for instance, at every step I could use >> auto-completion and the documentation to decide what follows from >> what, even in a domain I had no familiarity with, but Smalltalk >> doesn't lend itself to that approach. >> > I was going to just ask for some examples of what you particularly > liked in Eclipse. We can learn from other systems. However with a > quick browse I found [1]. Do you have anything to add to that? > [1] http://eclipse.org/recommenders/documentation/usr.html > > A few thoughts in response... > > _Intelligent Code Templates_ - "But code templates /really/ shine when > developers have to use APIs they are not very familiar with. Then, > code templates serve as additional documentation that quickly shows > how an API can be used and save developers lot of time otherwise > needed for reading API documentation. Eclipse maintains more than 70 > of such Java code templates" > > Within Smalltalk, rather than 70 templates you have the whole system. > If you are browsing a class and see a method which seems like what you > want, click <Senders> to get an idea of how to use them. Another way > to learn the system is to temporarily edit any method to insert a > 'self haltOnce' then 'World-menu > System > Enable halt/inspect once' > which will bring up a debugger where you can explore the call chain to > see a live demonstration of how that method is used. The reason to > use #haltOnce rather than #halt is that method might be used by the > display system and you wold end up locking the image with cascading > halts as the display loop runs. Using halos, you can <Duplicate> that > menu item and leave it sitting on the background as a button for easy > access. > > You can highlight any method and use <cmd-n> or <cmd-m> to get a list > of senders & implementors of that method. I often find myself > following several levels to understand a chain of calls. > > Learn the difference in using the <Into> <Over>& <Through> buttons > when debugging (eg from the Workspace context menu) something like > '#(1 2 3 4) do: [ :x | Transcript crShow: x].' For quite a while I > had missed using <Through> properly which hamstrung me when tracing > code and not wanting to trace the machinery of how #do: worked. > > _Intelligent Overrides Completion_ & _Subclassing Directives_ & > _Self-call Directives_ > These look interesting, in particular if they bought up examples from > public repositories outside the image. > >> With spoken languages even without proper syntax or phrasing a person >> who knows the language can deduce what you are trying to say but with >> computers you either get it right or the computer stares back at you >> blankly. >> >> As an experienced programmer I am trying to accomplish something >> non-trivial as hard and as fast as I can with Squeak, Pharo and their >> supporting libraries and ecosystem and the only way is to bombard the >> mailing lists and forums. You could say I am trying to understand how >> the language constructs can support my intentions as fast as I can. >> >> With respect to the above I can truthfully say that at this juncture I >> don't know what it all means, from the theoretical view point, nor >> from the practical perspective of what I am trying to accomplish, >> which is why the questions are flying in so thick and fast. >> >> >> Last of all - teachers please, I don't want to go to Smalltalk >> kindergarten. I have done too much programming in my life to be put in >> kindergarten when I start Smalltalk. >> The problem here is although one can learn from reading examples, it >> can be hard to understand the language constructs unless they are >> derived from one's own use cases, and this is why my questions have >> been coming in so thick and fast. >> >> >> > Even in light of that wanting to use your own use cases, there is one > example I would recommend [2] - since it is the best demonstration > I've seen of the paradigm shift of programming in Squeak/Pharo's live > environment. It is not entirely trivial - it took me a couple of days > to get through it - but the main reason I recommend it is that it is > more than a code example. It is a demonstration the power of the > system to refactor as the design evolves from concept to > deployment. The author exposes errors in design and how best to use > the debugger. Kind of a "this is how things are done in Smalltalk". > YMMV but I personally found it useful to help me change my approach > from previous programming languages. It is actually one of the main > things that mad me focus more on Smalltalk. You would need to > temporarily regress a few years to use Squeak 3.9 to match the > article, then come back to use the latest and greatest in current Pharo. > > [2] http://squeak.preeminent.org/tut2007/html/index.html > > cheers -ben > >

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do I save contents of Workspace into a collection?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Guys We love all your ideas and feedback. Now do you have an idea of the ratio Intelligent vs Pharo Eclispe vs Pharo in terms of payed engineering time? Stef On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > Frank Church wrote: >> >> Hi Igor, >> >> I am new to Smalltalk but not new to programming and I am into my >> first 14 hrs into learning it with Pharo. >> > Good to have you on board Frank. It will be interesting to follow your experience in becoming proficient in Smalltalk & Pharo. I am just coming up on a year of using Smalltalk/Pharo. There are a lot of hidden depths and I learn a lot watching the mail list for answers to questions that I hadn't thought of asking yet. So fire away. > I'll just mention a few things that I have learned that make it easier to plumb the system for examples. > Also see http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/pharo-tips-and-tricks/ >> As I was trying to work out the right syntax it brought to mind the >> thoughts of Brendan Eich, Gilad Bracha and Lars Bak who said the >> familar syntax (Algol/C style) of languages like Javascript, Go and >> Dart was chosen to make it easier for programmers familiar with C, >> Pascal etcetera to starting using. them, rather than learn a whole new >> paradigm, even at the cost of complicated parsing and language >> structure. >> > The flipside is that it makes it easier to continue operating with your old paradigms in a hybrid manner, preventing you gaining the most 'stretch' most from a new paradigm. > That is a very personal choice depending on what you want to gain from new learnings. However the main paradigm shift of Smalltalk is not its syntax but its 'live environment'. >> If I was using Eclipse IDE for instance, at every step I could use >> auto-completion and the documentation to decide what follows from >> what, even in a domain I had no familiarity with, but Smalltalk >> doesn't lend itself to that approach. >> > I was going to just ask for some examples of what you particularly liked in Eclipse. We can learn from other systems. However with a quick browse I found [1]. Do you have anything to add to that? > [1] http://eclipse.org/recommenders/documentation/usr.html > > A few thoughts in response... > > _Intelligent Code Templates_ - "But code templates /really/ shine when developers have to use APIs they are not very familiar with. Then, code templates serve as additional documentation that quickly shows how an API can be used and save developers lot of time otherwise needed for reading API documentation. Eclipse maintains more than 70 of such Java code templates" > > Within Smalltalk, rather than 70 templates you have the whole system. If you are browsing a class and see a method which seems like what you want, click <Senders> to get an idea of how to use them. Another way to learn the system is to temporarily edit any method to insert a 'self haltOnce' then 'World-menu > System > Enable halt/inspect once' which will bring up a debugger where you can explore the call chain to see a live demonstration of how that method is used. The reason to use #haltOnce rather than #halt is that method might be used by the display system and you wold end up locking the image with cascading halts as the display loop runs. Using halos, you can <Duplicate> that menu item and leave it sitting on the background as a button for easy access. > > You can highlight any method and use <cmd-n> or <cmd-m> to get a list of senders & implementors of that method. I often find myself following several levels to understand a chain of calls. > > Learn the difference in using the <Into> <Over>& <Through> buttons when debugging (eg from the Workspace context menu) something like '#(1 2 3 4) do: [ :x | Transcript crShow: x].' For quite a while I had missed using <Through> properly which hamstrung me when tracing code and not wanting to trace the machinery of how #do: worked. > > _Intelligent Overrides Completion_ & _Subclassing Directives_ & _Self-call Directives_ > These look interesting, in particular if they bought up examples from public repositories outside the image. > >> With spoken languages even without proper syntax or phrasing a person >> who knows the language can deduce what you are trying to say but with >> computers you either get it right or the computer stares back at you >> blankly. >> >> As an experienced programmer I am trying to accomplish something >> non-trivial as hard and as fast as I can with Squeak, Pharo and their >> supporting libraries and ecosystem and the only way is to bombard the >> mailing lists and forums. You could say I am trying to understand how >> the language constructs can support my intentions as fast as I can. >> >> With respect to the above I can truthfully say that at this juncture I >> don't know what it all means, from the theoretical view point, nor >> from the practical perspective of what I am trying to accomplish, >> which is why the questions are flying in so thick and fast. >> >> >> Last of all - teachers please, I don't want to go to Smalltalk >> kindergarten. I have done too much programming in my life to be put in >> kindergarten when I start Smalltalk. >> The problem here is although one can learn from reading examples, it >> can be hard to understand the language constructs unless they are >> derived from one's own use cases, and this is why my questions have >> been coming in so thick and fast. >> >> >> > Even in light of that wanting to use your own use cases, there is one example I would recommend [2] - since it is the best demonstration I've seen of the paradigm shift of programming in Squeak/Pharo's live environment. It is not entirely trivial - it took me a couple of days to get through it - but the main reason I recommend it is that it is more than a code example. It is a demonstration the power of the system to refactor as the design evolves from concept to deployment. The author exposes errors in design and how best to use the debugger. Kind of a "this is how things are done in Smalltalk". YMMV but I personally found it useful to help me change my approach from previous programming languages. It is actually one of the main things that mad me focus more on Smalltalk. You would need to temporarily regress a few years to use Squeak 3.9 to match the article, then come back to use the latest and greatest in current Pharo. > > [2] http://squeak.preeminent.org/tut2007/html/index.html > > cheers -ben >

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do I save contents of Workspace into a collection?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi jesus please open a new thread! Stef On Jan 12, 2013, at 3:03 AM, Jesus NuÃ±ez wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I was checking the NativeBoost code and I am confused with some heap allocation procedures, specifically: > > NBFFICallout>>resolveType: "It receives a type name aTypeName" > ... > "name becomes an alias for aTypeName" > > binding := resolver nbBindingOf: name asSymbol. > > binding ifNotNil: [ > ^ (binding value asNBExternalType: self) pointerArity: ptrArity ] . > > Is there anybody who can help me solving an issue I have found > > > 2013/1/12 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > > On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > > > Frank Church wrote: > >> > >> Hi Igor, > >> > >> I am new to Smalltalk but not new to programming and I am into my > >> first 14 hrs into learning it with Pharo. > >> > > Good to have you on board Frank. It will be interesting to follow your experience in becoming proficient in Smalltalk & Pharo. I am just coming up on a year of using Smalltalk/Pharo. There are a lot of hidden depths and I learn a lot watching the mail list for answers to questions that I hadn't thought of asking yet. So fire away. > > Yes, and we really need to fix all the small hurdles people encounterâ¦ and improve the documentation for people not already knowing things.. > > Marcus > > >

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Rendering text to bitmap buffer then paintImage to a canvas

by Igor Stasenko

On 12 January 2013 03:16, Jesus NuÃ±ez <poissonbreaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > @Igor Thanks for the aclaration, I am quite new to pharo and I just wanted > to help with what I've seen > No problem. I need to finish that thing.. the dilemma there is that supporting old fashing text rendering is not going to show good results. Writing a new text support + layout is another piece of work, we're just started.. but it if far from finishing. But do not confuse: you can render strings with any truetype font using Athens, but what you cannot do is to use it for rendering TextMorph(s) contents. Because TextMorph is heavily hardcoded for using balloon canvas.. with lots of optimizations and complexity. > Cheers > > > 2013/1/11 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> >> >> Thanks Igor. That was exactly what I was looking for. >> >> >> Igor Stasenko wrote: >>> >>> On 10 January 2013 14:42, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I need to improve the performance of a lot of text that drawn on screen >>>> while the screen is being dragged around and would like to experiment >>>> with >>>> rendering the text to a bitmap buffer then painting that onto a canvas. >>>> How >>>> might that be achieved? And from Workspace can I test this? I have >>>> been >>>> searching for a couple of hours already so thought I'd just ask. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> easy. >>> >>> form := Form extent: 100@100 depth: 32. >>> >>> canvas := form getCanvas. >>> canvas drawString... whatever. >>> >>> and then: >>> >>> displayCanvas drawImage: form. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do I save contents of Workspace into a collection?

by Igor Stasenko

On 12 January 2013 03:43, Jesus NuÃ±ez <poissonbreaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello again, I think my problem is that I upgraded NativeCode and it can not > handle some types, It prompts an error as: > "unable to revolve external type: int", I ran a piece of code that was > working before and it also failed. I stay with the older version so please > ignore my question. Hmm.. there is no such class in NativeBoost. Perhaps you meant NBFFICallout? Try do NBFFICallout initialize. to see if it will fix the problem. > > > 2013/1/12 Jesus NuÃ±ez <poissonbreaker(a)gmail.com> >> >> Sorry for the misleading term of "heap allocation procedures", better call >> it a piece of code :) >> >> >> 2013/1/12 Jesus NuÃ±ez <poissonbreaker(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> I was checking the NativeBoost code and I am confused with some heap >>> allocation procedures, specifically: >>> >>> NBFFICallout>>resolveType: "It receives a type name aTypeName" >>> ... >>> "name becomes an alias for aTypeName" >>> ... >>> binding := resolver nbBindingOf: name asSymbol. !!!!Why is this here??? >>> It checks for the binding of a type?? >>> binding ifNotNil: [ >>> ^ (binding value asNBExternalType: self) pointerArity: ptrArity ] . >>> >>> Is there anybody who can help me with this?, I think the semantic is >>> wrong here or am I missing something?? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Jesus NuÃ±ez >>> >>> >>> 2013/1/12 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Frank Church wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Hi Igor, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am new to Smalltalk but not new to programming and I am into my >>>> >> first 14 hrs into learning it with Pharo. >>>> >> >>>> > Good to have you on board Frank. It will be interesting to follow >>>> > your experience in becoming proficient in Smalltalk & Pharo. I am just >>>> > coming up on a year of using Smalltalk/Pharo. There are a lot of hidden >>>> > depths and I learn a lot watching the mail list for answers to questions >>>> > that I hadn't thought of asking yet. So fire away. >>>> >>>> Yes, and we really need to fix all the small hurdles people encounterâ¦ >>>> and improve the documentation for people not already knowing things.. >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 12, 2013