July 2011 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo showcase demos?

by Simon Denier

On 5 juil. 2011, at 14:41, laurent laffont wrote: > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Simon Denier <simon.denier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Question: what do you show to other people when you want to demo Pharo/Smalltalk? in 15 minutes / 30 minutes / 1 hour > > Do you have a typical example? Do you use a kata? Or a full blown application? > > I like katas with TDD and Autotest. OK I have never done a kata before so I should definitely watch your latest screencasts :) > > I was also impressed by Hilaire demonstrating DrGeo. It's the typical application where Smalltalk brings features to the user. > > Laurent. > > > What tools do you show? > > > I'm looking for successful recipes/topos to present Pharo in a technical context: the premice is that people are interested by Pharo, but they will not be convinced by a toy case and a basic demo of tools. A TDD demo would be more efficient I guess. > > That would be cool to have a list of such showcases depending on the context (duration of demo, technical level of people, interest...) > > -- > Simon Denier > > > > > -- Simon Denier

July 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo showcase demos?

by Simon Denier

On 5 juil. 2011, at 12:04, Tudor Girba wrote: > I use Moose :) Well, Moose is my next step after the first introduction to Smalltalk :) But I would like to start with the common tools in Pharo. > > Doru > > > On 5 Jul 2011, at 10:54, Simon Denier wrote: > >> >> Question: what do you show to other people when you want to demo Pharo/Smalltalk? in 15 minutes / 30 minutes / 1 hour >> >> Do you have a typical example? Do you use a kata? Or a full blown application? >> >> What tools do you show? >> >> >> I'm looking for successful recipes/topos to present Pharo in a technical context: the premice is that people are interested by Pharo, but they will not be convinced by a toy case and a basic demo of tools. A TDD demo would be more efficient I guess. >> >> That would be cool to have a list of such showcases depending on the context (duration of demo, technical level of people, interest...) >> >> -- >> Simon Denier >> >> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." > > > > -- Simon Denier

July 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo showcase demos?

by Simon Denier

On 5 juil. 2011, at 14:41, laurent laffont wrote: > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Simon Denier <simon.denier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Question: what do you show to other people when you want to demo Pharo/Smalltalk? in 15 minutes / 30 minutes / 1 hour > > Do you have a typical example? Do you use a kata? Or a full blown application? > > I like katas with TDD and Autotest. > > I was also impressed by Hilaire demonstrating DrGeo. It's the typical application where Smalltalk brings features to the user. Interesting. Does it include a bit of programming? I guess you can extend DrGeo with your own programs. > > Laurent. > > > What tools do you show? > > > I'm looking for successful recipes/topos to present Pharo in a technical context: the premice is that people are interested by Pharo, but they will not be convinced by a toy case and a basic demo of tools. A TDD demo would be more efficient I guess. > > That would be cool to have a list of such showcases depending on the context (duration of demo, technical level of people, interest...) > > -- > Simon Denier > > > > > -- Simon Denier

July 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo showcase demos?

by laurent laffont

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Simon Denier <simon.denier(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > Question: what do you show to other people when you want to demo > Pharo/Smalltalk? in 15 minutes / 30 minutes / 1 hour > > Do you have a typical example? Do you use a kata? Or a full blown > application? > I like katas with TDD and Autotest. I was also impressed by Hilaire demonstrating DrGeo. It's the typical application where Smalltalk brings features to the user. Laurent. > > What tools do you show? > > > I'm looking for successful recipes/topos to present Pharo in a technical > context: the premice is that people are interested by Pharo, but they will > not be convinced by a toy case and a basic demo of tools. A TDD demo would > be more efficient I guess. > > That would be cool to have a list of such showcases depending on the > context (duration of demo, technical level of people, interest...) > > -- > Simon Denier > > > > >

July 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo showcase demos?

by Tudor Girba

I use Moose :) Doru On 5 Jul 2011, at 10:54, Simon Denier wrote: > > Question: what do you show to other people when you want to demo Pharo/Smalltalk? in 15 minutes / 30 minutes / 1 hour > > Do you have a typical example? Do you use a kata? Or a full blown application? > > What tools do you show? > > > I'm looking for successful recipes/topos to present Pharo in a technical context: the premice is that people are interested by Pharo, but they will not be convinced by a toy case and a basic demo of tools. A TDD demo would be more efficient I guess. > > That would be cool to have a list of such showcases depending on the context (duration of demo, technical level of people, interest...) > > -- > Simon Denier > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."

July 5, 2011

Pharo showcase demos?

by Simon Denier

Question: what do you show to other people when you want to demo Pharo/Smalltalk? in 15 minutes / 30 minutes / 1 hour Do you have a typical example? Do you use a kata? Or a full blown application? What tools do you show? I'm looking for successful recipes/topos to present Pharo in a technical context: the premice is that people are interested by Pharo, but they will not be convinced by a toy case and a basic demo of tools. A TDD demo would be more efficient I guess. That would be cool to have a list of such showcases depending on the context (duration of demo, technical level of people, interest...) -- Simon Denier

July 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Martin Dias

Yes, we have to work on it. I think version handling should be added wrapping the basic serializer, like other features like a checksum, compression, or encryption. So the class that serializes just worries about serialization. For example, in the Moose extension we are signing the stream with this prefix: 'FLMoose', version where version represents a two-byte integer. A kind of faÃ§ade adds this behavior in FLMooseContainerWriter and FLMooseContainerReader, throwing error when either stream doesn't begin with 'FLMoose', or it is a different version. Implementation of FLMooseContainerWriter and FLMooseContainerReader are questionable, but my point is that I believe version is a meta-information about the stream that can be appended optionally. Do you agree? Martin On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com > wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Francois Stephany < > tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Do you have differnt versions of Fuel in the two differnt images ? >>> >> >> That was it. >> > > Excellent. > > >> One image had latestVersion (which is 1.4) and the other 1.5 (blessed as >> 'development'). >> >> > Yes, but this is a problem. We should throw a nice error explaining the > situation instead of that. In fact, we are serializing a "version" of Fuel > and we should raise an error in such case. So I am not sure why you received > that. > Martin? > > >> Thanks ! >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

indeed :) this scenario should work. > > That was it. > > Excellent. > > One image had latestVersion (which is 1.4) and the other 1.5 (blessed as 'development'). > > > Yes, but this is a problem. We should throw a nice error explaining the situation instead of that. In fact, we are serializing a "version" of Fuel and we should raise an error in such case. So I am not sure why you received that. > Martin? > > Thanks ! > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Francois Stephany < tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Do you have differnt versions of Fuel in the two differnt images ? >> > > That was it. > Excellent. > One image had latestVersion (which is 1.4) and the other 1.5 (blessed as > 'development'). > > Yes, but this is a problem. We should throw a nice error explaining the situation instead of that. In fact, we are serializing a "version" of Fuel and we should raise an error in such case. So I am not sure why you received that. Martin? > Thanks ! > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Francois Stephany

> Do you have differnt versions of Fuel in the two differnt images ? That was it. One image had latestVersion (which is 1.4) and the other 1.5 (blessed as 'development'). Thanks !

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Do you have differnt versions of Fuel in the two differnt images ? On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com > wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:00 PM, Francois Stephany < > tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Mariano, >> >> I'll try to nail down the problem. > > > Excellent. > > >> Any hint on what can cause the problem? > > > Not really. The problem seems to be that the file was not correctly > written. Objects are grouped in clusters. So we write the id of the cluster, > then the amount of objects of such clusters and finally we write those > objects. At materialization, we read the data. In this case, it seems we are > reading something different from expected, so we do something like > clusterId := stream readInteger > > to get the id but in fact we are getting a zero, because we are actually > reading something different from expected. > > Can you see if evaluating "FuelUtilities cleanUpEverything" helps ? > > Which version of the package FUel are you using ? > > How did you exactly installed Fuel ? > > I'm probably doing something stupid... >> >> > Not sure. Can you also tell us how did you serialize/materialize? > > which kind of object you were trying to serialize? > > thanks > > >> On 03/07/11 20:43, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >>> Hi Francois. >>> >>> Can you reproduce the problem? If true, please let us know how. >>> >>> Mariano >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Francois Stephany >>> <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com <mailto:tulipe.moutarde@gmail.**com<tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've serialized an object with Fuel and can't get it back in another >>> image: >>> >>> Could not find a serializer with id=0 in FLCluster class>>forId: >>> >>> The instance variable 'serializersById' contains a dictionary with >>> other integers than 0 for its keys (1, 2, 3, 4, 7, etc). >>> >>> Is it a known problem, something I'm doing wrong? Maybe because I've >>> serialized an object from Pharo 1.2 to 1.3? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Fa >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.**com <http://marianopeck.wordpress.com> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:00 PM, Francois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Hi Mariano, > > I'll try to nail down the problem. Excellent. > Any hint on what can cause the problem? Not really. The problem seems to be that the file was not correctly written. Objects are grouped in clusters. So we write the id of the cluster, then the amount of objects of such clusters and finally we write those objects. At materialization, we read the data. In this case, it seems we are reading something different from expected, so we do something like clusterId := stream readInteger to get the id but in fact we are getting a zero, because we are actually reading something different from expected. Can you see if evaluating "FuelUtilities cleanUpEverything" helps ? Which version of the package FUel are you using ? How did you exactly installed Fuel ? I'm probably doing something stupid... > > Not sure. Can you also tell us how did you serialize/materialize? which kind of object you were trying to serialize? thanks > On 03/07/11 20:43, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > >> Hi Francois. >> >> Can you reproduce the problem? If true, please let us know how. >> >> Mariano >> >> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Francois Stephany >> <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com <mailto:tulipe.moutarde@gmail.**com<tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com>>> >> wrote: >> >> I've serialized an object with Fuel and can't get it back in another >> image: >> >> Could not find a serializer with id=0 in FLCluster class>>forId: >> >> The instance variable 'serializersById' contains a dictionary with >> other integers than 0 for its keys (1, 2, 3, 4, 7, etc). >> >> Is it a known problem, something I'm doing wrong? Maybe because I've >> serialized an object from Pharo 1.2 to 1.3? >> >> Cheers, >> Fa >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.**com <http://marianopeck.wordpress.com> >> >> > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Francois Stephany

Hi Mariano, I'll try to nail down the problem. Any hint on what can cause the problem? I'm probably doing something stupid... On 03/07/11 20:43, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Hi Francois. > > Can you reproduce the problem? If true, please let us know how. > > Mariano > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Francois Stephany > <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com <mailto:tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I've serialized an object with Fuel and can't get it back in another > image: > > Could not find a serializer with id=0 in FLCluster class>>forId: > > The instance variable 'serializersById' contains a dictionary with > other integers than 0 for its keys (1, 2, 3, 4, 7, etc). > > Is it a known problem, something I'm doing wrong? Maybe because I've > serialized an object from Pharo 1.2 to 1.3? > > Cheers, > Fa > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Francois. Can you reproduce the problem? If true, please let us know how. Mariano On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Francois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com > wrote: > I've serialized an object with Fuel and can't get it back in another image: > > Could not find a serializer with id=0 in FLCluster class>>forId: > > The instance variable 'serializersById' contains a dictionary with other > integers than 0 for its keys (1, 2, 3, 4, 7, etc). > > Is it a known problem, something I'm doing wrong? Maybe because I've > serialized an object from Pharo 1.2 to 1.3? > > Cheers, > Fa > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 3, 2011

Fuel: Could not find a serializer with id=0

by Francois Stephany

I've serialized an object with Fuel and can't get it back in another image: Could not find a serializer with id=0 in FLCluster class>>forId: The instance variable 'serializersById' contains a dictionary with other integers than 0 for its keys (1, 2, 3, 4, 7, etc). Is it a known problem, something I'm doing wrong? Maybe because I've serialized an object from Pharo 1.2 to 1.3? Cheers, Fa

July 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I think that what would be great is to have a list of next items Stef On Jul 1, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > So....I've created a wiki page: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Teams > can you please help me to add the rest ??? > I did it in a "table" way, but I am not sure if it is the best. > > In addition, some text explaining the idea would be nice :) > > thanks for the help > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I would add one for profilers and friends. Alexandre could be the coordinator there. > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:40 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Dear Pharoers > > I think that we are doing a great work: when I look at the work on the theme, better widgets, network.....Excellent! and thanks. > Now we were discussing with Doru about how we as community could coordinate and structure ourselves better to create more energy. > > Analysis of the current situation: > Right now we have individuals doing great projects, sometimes we have a group of people but this is often not visible. > Now often happens a bit in ad-hoc way. Because someone ask something, then somebody replies and we integrate the replies. > > What I would like to see emerging are First Class Tasks with > a name > a topic > a coordinator > a group of interested participants, > a set of identified clients (because clients are the ones that often make us deliver more), > a little agenda, > a web presence on the web page > > > If we look at what we have right now that are potential Tasks and really important clients > > - The Z connection: > Network/Socket > Coordinator (proposed): Sven > Socket: Noury Luc Jannik Olivier > Clients: Seasiders, Clouders, > > - Morphic 2: > UI: Alain Gary Igor > Coordinator (proposed): ? > Presenty framework > VoidNullPointer UIBuilder > Athens > Clients: Moose, Pharo IDE > > - Pharo IDE: > Coordinator (proposed): Doru > work around TWM Laurent > Nautilus: Benjamin Laurent > Glamourous: Doru Damien > > - OPAL: > Compiler tool chain > Coordinator (proposed): Marcus? > Jb, Jorge, Marcus, > Helvetia lukas > Niko Schwarz? > > - Package: > Stef, Cyrille > Coordinator (proposed): Stephane > Client: Nautilus, Doru Moose, > > - Metacello > Dale Mariano > Coordinator (proposed): Dale? > Client: Stef with the idea of distribution, Torsten don't you want to help here? > > - Coral: > Coordinator (proposed): Damien? > Damien, Luc, Adrien, Stef, > Client: Damien, Olivier? > > So what would be good is to have the identification on the web site of these groups. > More discussions and concentration with a set of little tasks to be performed > We could tag the mails with [Task-UI], [Task-OPAL], have a little visible agenda. > > What do you think? I think that it is important. > > > > Stef > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

July 2, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by Mariano Martinez Peck

So....I've created a wiki page: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Teams can you please help me to add the rest ??? I did it in a "table" way, but I am not sure if it is the best. In addition, some text explaining the idea would be nice :) thanks for the help On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I would add one for profilers and friends. Alexandre could be the > coordinator there. > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:40 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Dear Pharoers >> >> I think that we are doing a great work: when I look at the work on the >> theme, better widgets, network.....Excellent! and thanks. >> Now we were discussing with Doru about how we as community could >> coordinate and structure ourselves better to create more energy. >> >> Analysis of the current situation: >> Right now we have individuals doing great projects, sometimes we >> have a group of people but this is often not visible. >> Now often happens a bit in ad-hoc way. Because someone ask >> something, then somebody replies and we integrate the replies. >> >> What I would like to see emerging are First Class Tasks with >> a name >> a topic >> a coordinator >> a group of interested participants, >> a set of identified clients (because clients are the ones that >> often make us deliver more), >> a little agenda, >> a web presence on the web page >> >> >> If we look at what we have right now that are potential Tasks and really >> important clients >> >> - The Z connection: >> Network/Socket >> Coordinator (proposed): Sven >> Socket: Noury Luc Jannik Olivier >> Clients: Seasiders, Clouders, >> >> - Morphic 2: >> UI: Alain Gary Igor >> Coordinator (proposed): ? >> Presenty framework >> VoidNullPointer UIBuilder >> Athens >> Clients: Moose, Pharo IDE >> >> - Pharo IDE: >> Coordinator (proposed): Doru >> work around TWM Laurent >> Nautilus: Benjamin Laurent >> Glamourous: Doru Damien >> >> - OPAL: >> Compiler tool chain >> Coordinator (proposed): Marcus? >> Jb, Jorge, Marcus, >> Helvetia lukas >> Niko Schwarz? >> >> - Package: >> Stef, Cyrille >> Coordinator (proposed): Stephane >> Client: Nautilus, Doru Moose, >> >> - Metacello >> Dale Mariano >> Coordinator (proposed): Dale? >> Client: Stef with the idea of distribution, Torsten don't >> you want to help here? >> >> - Coral: >> Coordinator (proposed): Damien? >> Damien, Luc, Adrien, Stef, >> Client: Damien, Olivier? >> >> So what would be good is to have the identification on the web site of >> these groups. >> More discussions and concentration with a set of little tasks to be >> performed >> We could tag the mails with [Task-UI], [Task-OPAL], have a little visible >> agenda. >> >> What do you think? I think that it is important. >> >> >> >> Stef >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I would add one for profilers and friends. Alexandre could be the coordinator there. On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:40 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Dear Pharoers > > I think that we are doing a great work: when I look at the work on the > theme, better widgets, network.....Excellent! and thanks. > Now we were discussing with Doru about how we as community could coordinate > and structure ourselves better to create more energy. > > Analysis of the current situation: > Right now we have individuals doing great projects, sometimes we > have a group of people but this is often not visible. > Now often happens a bit in ad-hoc way. Because someone ask > something, then somebody replies and we integrate the replies. > > What I would like to see emerging are First Class Tasks with > a name > a topic > a coordinator > a group of interested participants, > a set of identified clients (because clients are the ones that often > make us deliver more), > a little agenda, > a web presence on the web page > > > If we look at what we have right now that are potential Tasks and really > important clients > > - The Z connection: > Network/Socket > Coordinator (proposed): Sven > Socket: Noury Luc Jannik Olivier > Clients: Seasiders, Clouders, > > - Morphic 2: > UI: Alain Gary Igor > Coordinator (proposed): ? > Presenty framework > VoidNullPointer UIBuilder > Athens > Clients: Moose, Pharo IDE > > - Pharo IDE: > Coordinator (proposed): Doru > work around TWM Laurent > Nautilus: Benjamin Laurent > Glamourous: Doru Damien > > - OPAL: > Compiler tool chain > Coordinator (proposed): Marcus? > Jb, Jorge, Marcus, > Helvetia lukas > Niko Schwarz? > > - Package: > Stef, Cyrille > Coordinator (proposed): Stephane > Client: Nautilus, Doru Moose, > > - Metacello > Dale Mariano > Coordinator (proposed): Dale? > Client: Stef with the idea of distribution, Torsten don't > you want to help here? > > - Coral: > Coordinator (proposed): Damien? > Damien, Luc, Adrien, Stef, > Client: Damien, Olivier? > > So what would be good is to have the identification on the web site of > these groups. > More discussions and concentration with a set of little tasks to be > performed > We could tag the mails with [Task-UI], [Task-OPAL], have a little visible > agenda. > > What do you think? I think that it is important. > > > > Stef > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Don;t you think that I thought about that :)? Yes I did. Now don't you think that trying for real once more would not make sense? Else we are banned to be alone And just already making official was is working would be good. Every couple of friday the ocean people are coding together. Stef > Are you trying to repeat experience of Squeak teams? > I can remind you that they are never worked and failed in the end. > > And i think that problem is that its hard to coordinate people which > are located around the globe and their main tasks are completely > different. > Another reason is that you cannot enforce any kind of responsibility > for delaying or not delivering , because we're talking about > enthusiasts. > > I believe that individual people with own vision and own, personal, > agenda could do much more. > If someone would like to voluntary coordinate some activities, i am > all for it. Now this means that given person should have plan in his > head and stick with it, > and keep an eye, ask around, communicate, and of course try coordinate people. > But is it really need to be formalized like that? > > We, as community could discuss the agendas, and then a concrete steps > to implement it. Now, its not really matters who will do it, as long > as there enough people interested in helping > with it. > And its completely pointless to form groups of individuals, only to be > listed as a group member on site and doing nothing (for whatever > objective reason). > > So, the right questions about any improvement, which we would like to > see in future is: > - do/why we need that > - who can do that > > if both of these questions can be answered positively, then it is only > a matter of time for new feature to appear. > And to my opinion, putting any kind of formality around it is > completely orthogonal to what will happen in reality. > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-project] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by Guillermo Polito

I think it is important a team working on application integration (Soap, rest servers, xml and binary rpc, C/Java/ .Net integration) for the enterprise pharo user :). On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:48 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > > > > > I think we should try this. IMO a task around SUnit & friends is missing. > > sign in for it and lead it. > What I would like is a small agenda so that other people can see what is > happening > and if they want to help join. > > > > > Laurent. > > >

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by Tudor Girba

Hi, The idea of Pharo Tasks is not to get things rigid and to stop the individuals from contributing. This should continue to happen. Instead, the idea is to start acknowledging that Pharo has became larger, and that the integration and drive of individual contributions has more dimensions that can be handled by the core group alone. So, the Pharo Task Force is a mechanism for teams to form around some larger topics. Like I said beforetime, I want to work on the IDE. This is a topic that is larger than one person can and should do. But, it is also a topic that requires integration of contributions, and it won't work by simply doing a union of choices. Just like now the Core team relentlessly cleans up the language and infrastructure, so should the IDE deserve a similar approach to get it strong and reinvented. People should know that this project exists and that they can contribute in a more organized way. This won't work by force. But, if someone wants to build/lead/integrate a project like this, I think it can work nicely. Cheers, Doru On 1 Jul 2011, at 13:08, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Are you trying to repeat experience of Squeak teams? > I can remind you that they are never worked and failed in the end. > > And i think that problem is that its hard to coordinate people which > are located around the globe and their main tasks are completely > different. > Another reason is that you cannot enforce any kind of responsibility > for delaying or not delivering , because we're talking about > enthusiasts. > > I believe that individual people with own vision and own, personal, > agenda could do much more. > If someone would like to voluntary coordinate some activities, i am > all for it. Now this means that given person should have plan in his > head and stick with it, > and keep an eye, ask around, communicate, and of course try coordinate people. > But is it really need to be formalized like that? > > We, as community could discuss the agendas, and then a concrete steps > to implement it. Now, its not really matters who will do it, as long > as there enough people interested in helping > with it. > And its completely pointless to form groups of individuals, only to be > listed as a group member on site and doing nothing (for whatever > objective reason). > > So, the right questions about any improvement, which we would like to > see in future is: > - do/why we need that > - who can do that > > if both of these questions can be answered positively, then it is only > a matter of time for new feature to appear. > And to my opinion, putting any kind of formality around it is > completely orthogonal to what will happen in reality. > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Some battles are better lost than fought."

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Mariano could you add a page will all the information on the wiki? Stef > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:40 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Dear Pharoers > > I think that we are doing a great work: when I look at the work on the theme, better widgets, network.....Excellent! and thanks. > Now we were discussing with Doru about how we as community could coordinate and structure ourselves better to create more energy. > > Analysis of the current situation: > Right now we have individuals doing great projects, sometimes we have a group of people but this is often not visible. > Now often happens a bit in ad-hoc way. Because someone ask something, then somebody replies and we integrate the replies. > > What I would like to see emerging are First Class Tasks with > a name > > Fuel > > a topic > > An object graph serializer > > a coordinator > > Mariano Martinez Peck > > > a group of interested participants, > > Martin Dias > > a set of identified clients (because clients are the ones that often make us deliver more), > > - Pharo itself > - persistency > - SandstoneDB (already done). > - Pier kernel persistency (already done). > - Moose model import/export (already done). > - Newspeak. > > a little agenda, > > Lot of open issues: http://code.google.com/p/fuel/issues/list > > a web presence on the web page > > > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/software/Fuel > > > > > If we look at what we have right now that are potential Tasks and really important clients > > - The Z connection: > Network/Socket > Coordinator (proposed): Sven > Socket: Noury Luc Jannik Olivier > Clients: Seasiders, Clouders, > > - Morphic 2: > UI: Alain Gary Igor > Coordinator (proposed): ? > Presenty framework > VoidNullPointer UIBuilder > Athens > Clients: Moose, Pharo IDE > > - Pharo IDE: > Coordinator (proposed): Doru > work around TWM Laurent > Nautilus: Benjamin Laurent > Glamourous: Doru Damien > > - OPAL: > Compiler tool chain > Coordinator (proposed): Marcus? > Jb, Jorge, Marcus, > Helvetia lukas > Niko Schwarz? > > - Package: > Stef, Cyrille > Coordinator (proposed): Stephane > Client: Nautilus, Doru Moose, > > - Metacello > Dale Mariano > Coordinator (proposed): Dale? > Client: Stef with the idea of distribution, Torsten don't you want to help here? > > - Coral: > Coordinator (proposed): Damien? > Damien, Luc, Adrien, Stef, > Client: Damien, Olivier? > > So what would be good is to have the identification on the web site of these groups. > More discussions and concentration with a set of little tasks to be performed > We could tag the mails with [Task-UI], [Task-OPAL], have a little visible agenda. > > What do you think? I think that it is important. > > > > Stef > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-project] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > I think we should try this. IMO a task around SUnit & friends is missing. sign in for it and lead it. What I would like is a small agenda so that other people can see what is happening and if they want to help join. > > Laurent.

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by Igor Stasenko

Are you trying to repeat experience of Squeak teams? I can remind you that they are never worked and failed in the end. And i think that problem is that its hard to coordinate people which are located around the globe and their main tasks are completely different. Another reason is that you cannot enforce any kind of responsibility for delaying or not delivering , because we're talking about enthusiasts. I believe that individual people with own vision and own, personal, agenda could do much more. If someone would like to voluntary coordinate some activities, i am all for it. Now this means that given person should have plan in his head and stick with it, and keep an eye, ask around, communicate, and of course try coordinate people. But is it really need to be formalized like that? We, as community could discuss the agendas, and then a concrete steps to implement it. Now, its not really matters who will do it, as long as there enough people interested in helping with it. And its completely pointless to form groups of individuals, only to be listed as a group member on site and doing nothing (for whatever objective reason). So, the right questions about any improvement, which we would like to see in future is: - do/why we need that - who can do that if both of these questions can be answered positively, then it is only a matter of time for new feature to appear. And to my opinion, putting any kind of formality around it is completely orthogonal to what will happen in reality. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

July 1, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] **Important Please read** Towards First Class Tasks

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:40 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Dear Pharoers > > I think that we are doing a great work: when I look at the work on the > theme, better widgets, network.....Excellent! and thanks. > Now we were discussing with Doru about how we as community could coordinate > and structure ourselves better to create more energy. > > Analysis of the current situation: > Right now we have individuals doing great projects, sometimes we > have a group of people but this is often not visible. > Now often happens a bit in ad-hoc way. Because someone ask > something, then somebody replies and we integrate the replies. > > What I would like to see emerging are First Class Tasks with > a name > DBXTalk > a topic > Smalltalk relational database suite of tools > a coordinator > Mariano Martinez Peck > a group of interested participants, > - Esteban Lorenzano - Diogenes Moreira - Guillermo Polito - Gisela Decuzzi - Santiago Bragagnolo > a set of identified clients (because clients are the ones that often > make us deliver more), > Real applications needing relational databases. > a little agenda, > - Continue the development - PBE2 chapter - new website > a web presence on the web page > > http://www.squeakdbx.org/ We need a new domain for dbxtalk and update lot of documentation. Consider it part of the agenda :) > If we look at what we have right now that are potential Tasks and really > important clients > > - The Z connection: > Network/Socket > Coordinator (proposed): Sven > Socket: Noury Luc Jannik Olivier > Clients: Seasiders, Clouders, > > - Morphic 2: > UI: Alain Gary Igor > Coordinator (proposed): ? > Presenty framework > VoidNullPointer UIBuilder > Athens > Clients: Moose, Pharo IDE > > - Pharo IDE: > Coordinator (proposed): Doru > work around TWM Laurent > Nautilus: Benjamin Laurent > Glamourous: Doru Damien > > - OPAL: > Compiler tool chain > Coordinator (proposed): Marcus? > Jb, Jorge, Marcus, > Helvetia lukas > Niko Schwarz? > > - Package: > Stef, Cyrille > Coordinator (proposed): Stephane > Client: Nautilus, Doru Moose, > > - Metacello > Dale Mariano > Coordinator (proposed): Dale? > Client: Stef with the idea of distribution, Torsten don't > you want to help here? > > - Coral: > Coordinator (proposed): Damien? > Damien, Luc, Adrien, Stef, > Client: Damien, Olivier? > > So what would be good is to have the identification on the web site of > these groups. > More discussions and concentration with a set of little tasks to be > performed > We could tag the mails with [Task-UI], [Task-OPAL], have a little visible > agenda. > > What do you think? I think that it is important. > > > > Stef > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 1, 2011