May 2011 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Wiki-gardening on the Pharo online book

by Simon Denier

On 24 mai 2011, at 14:23, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Yes, +99999 > That would be great. > Could you take care? at least a first pass? Looks more complicated than the last gardening: I'm thinking of creating bigger chapters like "Language and Libraries", "Tools", "Smalltalkies" for small tricks ("FAQ", "Tips and Tricks", "Customizing Pharo"). As well as a "work in progress" chapter for chapters which are rather empty (like, just how to load a given tool) to distinguish with more complete chapters. There is already a Pharo tools chapter but with 42 sections and no organization. So this chapter in itself needs to be reworked. > > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Simon Denier <simon.denier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Looking at the TOC of the Pharo online book, there are lots of new things, including duplicated/empty chapters especially in the Pharo tools section. What about a bit of wiki gardening in the next days? > > http://book.pharo-project.org/book/table-of-contents > > -- > Simon Denier > > > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > -- Simon Denier

May 26, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [update 1.3] #13216

by Marcus Denker

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 11:41 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > pay attention that you accept the stupid pop up (that breask hudson right now and stress marcus) > :) I think it's broken the same way than the 13215 that I retracted. I put Issues for everything I saw: Issue 4280: 13216 has dirty packages http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4280 Issue 4281: When updating to 13216, system version stays 13215 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4281 Issue 4282: In Headless mode, the image hangs when updating to 13216 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4282 Issue 4283: 13216 contains broken code of Issue 1817 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4283 The problem is that I don't know how to fix that with a 13217... as loading just stops somewhere, I do not know in which state MC is... When this happend yesterday with 13125, the only solution I found was to do a new 13215 that does not contain the code of 1817 (which we need to load with a changeset). -- Marcus DenkerÂ --Â denker(a)acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de

May 26, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] strange Scket timeout and finalization....

by Igor Stasenko

is it reproducable? On 25 May 2011 22:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > When doing an update. On morphic package I got a timedout error. > I pressed proceed and it worked > and after a finalization debugger. > I press proceed and it worked again > but it feels strange. > > Stef > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 26, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Sending mails from within Pharo?

by Tobias Pape

Am 2011-05-26 um 04:51 schrieb Johan Fabry: > Hi all, > > as part of an application that I am hacking together (in Seaside), I want mail notifications / confirmations to be sent to people. I was wondering if there is a Pharo (or Squeak) package out there that serves my needs? As you already are using Seaside, * Add a WAEmailConfiguration to your application and configure it * send a WAEmailMessage like this | msg | msg := WAEmailMessage from: (WAEmailAddress address: 'test(a)example.com' username: 'John Doe') to: (WAEmailAddress address: 'bar(a)example.com' username: 'Jane Doe') subject: 'Email Test'. msg body: 'This is a Test Email. It comes from John Doe who is just testing external mails in Seaside-Pharo-Email. '. msg send. Best -Tobias

May 26, 2011

Sending mails from within Pharo?

by Johan Fabry

Hi all, as part of an application that I am hacking together (in Seaside), I want mail notifications / confirmations to be sent to people. I was wondering if there is a Pharo (or Squeak) package out there that serves my needs? Thanks in advance! -- Johan Fabry jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

May 26, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [update 1.3] #13216

by Stefan Marr

Hi: On 25 May 2011, at 23:41, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > pay attention that you accept the stupid pop up (that breask hudson right now and stress marcus) > :) I did not notice any popup. I downloaded the latest (13215) full image and figured out how to do a manual update (why is there no menu item?) with the loader class. And well, sorry, but it is broken. Looks to me like StandardFileStream>>#openOnHandle:name:forWrite: is missing (it exists in Squeak 4.2) but hasn't been included in the image after the updated, and is also absent from the .cs file attached to the corresponding issue in the tracker. After grabbing that from Squeak, the relevant SMark tests are green, and `FileStream stdout nextPutAll: 'fooo'` works as expected. Best regards Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

May 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [update 1.3] #13216

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

pay attention that you accept the stupid pop up (that breask hudson right now and stress marcus) :) I'm interested to know because I did not tested the integration with the startup and initialize. I reviewed the code and igor reviewed it Stef On May 25, 2011, at 11:14 PM, Stefan Marr wrote: > > On 25 May 2011, at 22:15, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> - Issue 4233: to get stdout and others >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4233 > Thanks, will test it. > > Best regards > Stefan > > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 2974 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > >

May 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] some news about the consortium

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+ 1 :) On May 25, 2011, at 11:27 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > Think of the consortium as a combination between an insurance company and a charity center. > > If Pharo is important enough for you to not afford to lose it, you might want to ensure that this will be around for a while. So, you will create an insurance for it. You can also choose not to. > > If you are a hobbyist doing something, but you care for the cause, you might want to donate for your soul. You can also choose not to. > > The world will still be spinning either way, and the code will still be MIT. > > :) > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 25 May 2011, at 22:52, GermÃ¡n Arduino wrote: > >> Thanks for the explanation (and for the efforts). >> >> I think that lot of these things have sense and are needed. >> >> My main concern is about the license payments or not, if the people >> using Pharo will be forced to pay or will be a volunteer contribution. >> >> Exist a very different universe of Pharo users (I mean hobbystic >> users, home users, professional users, occasional profesional users, >> open source users) and really I don't see very clearly how the >> consortium will collect money in a fair way depending of the budget, >> volunteer and possibilities of each person/company (More yet being >> Pharo MIT). >> >> Cheers. >> GermÃ¡n. >> >> >> >> 2011/5/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>> Hi Stef: >>>> >>>> I yet have not clear how the consortium will work >>> >>> Money will be collected, tasks will be defined and done. >>> Money will pay an engineer (I hope) to do a lot of work that a lot of us do not have the time nor the knowledge >>> to do: VM, VM cleaning, VM improving, compiler, UI frameworks, and a lot of other stuff. >>> >>> Companies participating will be able to attend meetings if they have the time and will and discuss the agenda points. >>> The process will be open. For example, instantiations mentioned that they would like to participate and this is ok. >>> So we will even accept other Smalltalk representants that pay their participation because we do not see them as competitors. (especially when Pharo create young and cool Smalltalkers that can get hired by larger companies). >>> >>> May be you should listen my interview because >>> http://www.jarober.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=IM_29:_Ph… >>> >>> >>>> and what will be the >>>> implicancies for the people (as me) that is using Pharo for some >>>> projects. >>> >>> For people using pharo, they will have the possibility to get a better maintained system. Else nothing will change. >>> You can be sure that you will not be forced to use another Smalltalks :). Just Pharo will continue to get better and better just faster. >>> >>> Users will also have the possibility to feel engaged in pharo by joining the consortium and paying a participation fee. >>> We are discussing how much it should be and rates so that people with a low money do not pay more proportionally than others. >>> We will discuss all that we the community. Right now we are looking for the ok of INRIA because it could open more doors. >>> And Pharo success can help INRIA and us inside INRIA and Pharo via us if you see what I want to say. >>> >>> We are also looking at morale license. >>> I like the idea that when I use something that I really like and save my day, I can put money on the table/or time. >>> For example, when gemstone allows dale to work on metacello this is a contribution, when sven offers Zinc to the community >>> while he could have kept it for him, this is a contribution. So a moral license is a license that let us get a bill for your accounting >>> system, feel good and put money on software that you value. When I buy microsoft word (not a choice) I always feel ashamed >>> that I cannot pay for the free software I used daily (for example the texshop environment I use: why because I would like it to get better and thank the guys for their job). A moral license allow you to do that. >>> >>> The key point of the consortium are the following ones: >>> - structure the community. We need to get organized, strong, recognized.... (remember that we were part of the founders of >>> the squeak foundation). Now we want to make it real :) >>> >>> - give a chance to make sure that if people like eliot are not available for Smalltalk we do not get our head stuck >>> in the ground. So this is like death insurance: some people are afraid to talk about them and when they get crushed >>> by a car their spouse can be in big mess. Personally if I die my family is covered and I do not think that I want to die >>> tomorrow but I'm happy to think about potential problem. >>> So the consortium is the way to secure our/your investment in Pharo. We want to be able to pay one engineer (igor for >>> example) to improve it in addition to what we are doing. >>> >>> Sideline we hope to start a company around moose and software assessment and we want to give a chance to Pharo to get >>> better and we need a structure that can deal with the money we would like to spend because we want to support effort because >>> for our own business we need it better. >>> >>> Like everyday we go to buy our bread, the consortium should be a place where people can give money to support the >>> community and its artefact. If we are only able to rely on people free time and willingness to get something done may be we should do something else. Now the consortium will not solve all our problems. But this is the first important step. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Can you explain a bit more? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> GermÃ¡n. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." > > > >

May 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] some news about the consortium

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 25, 2011, at 10:52 PM, GermÃ¡n Arduino wrote: > Thanks for the explanation (and for the efforts). > > I think that lot of these things have sense and are needed. > > My main concern is about the license payments or not, if the people > using Pharo will be forced to pay or will be a volunteer contribution. nobody will be forced to do anything. :) > Exist a very different universe of Pharo users (I mean hobbystic > users, home users, professional users, occasional profesional users, > open source users) and really I don't see very clearly how the > consortium will collect money in a fair way depending of the budget, > volunteer and possibilities of each person/company (More yet being > Pharo MIT). Simple. do you think that the metallica tickets are expensive but you still want to get in or not. Same here except that metallica does not have to be that expensive. Personally I saw them several times but when they started to have too much dollars in their eyes I stopped. So fairness is not the objective, we should find a way that people are ok to contribute and that it makes sense. Now seriously what I imagine (just writing a bit now about it) The goal is to collect around 55Keuros and to ask INRIA if this is possible to backup in case where we do not succeed. Companies size / country = a price (we may get some prices but not too many) for 3000 Euros as a startup entry for a large company Europe/US and cheaper for countries where the change is bad 1000 for smaller company Individual: may be something like 100 Euros students or a free membership for individual. Research groups: Core: 500 Euros Member: 200 Euros After we have the moral license. All in all this is a challenge. We should find 30 companies willing to pay 2000 Euros or all the other combinations. Stef > > Cheers. > GermÃ¡n. > > > > 2011/5/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> Hi Stef: >>> >>> I yet have not clear how the consortium will work >> >> Money will be collected, tasks will be defined and done. >> Money will pay an engineer (I hope) to do a lot of work that a lot of us do not have the time nor the knowledge >> to do: VM, VM cleaning, VM improving, compiler, UI frameworks, and a lot of other stuff. >> >> Companies participating will be able to attend meetings if they have the time and will and discuss the agenda points. >> The process will be open. For example, instantiations mentioned that they would like to participate and this is ok. >> So we will even accept other Smalltalk representants that pay their participation because we do not see them as competitors. (especially when Pharo create young and cool Smalltalkers that can get hired by larger companies). >> >> May be you should listen my interview because >> http://www.jarober.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=IM_29:_Ph… >> >> >>> and what will be the >>> implicancies for the people (as me) that is using Pharo for some >>> projects. >> >> For people using pharo, they will have the possibility to get a better maintained system. Else nothing will change. >> You can be sure that you will not be forced to use another Smalltalks :). Just Pharo will continue to get better and better just faster. >> >> Users will also have the possibility to feel engaged in pharo by joining the consortium and paying a participation fee. >> We are discussing how much it should be and rates so that people with a low money do not pay more proportionally than others. >> We will discuss all that we the community. Right now we are looking for the ok of INRIA because it could open more doors. >> And Pharo success can help INRIA and us inside INRIA and Pharo via us if you see what I want to say. >> >> We are also looking at morale license. >> I like the idea that when I use something that I really like and save my day, I can put money on the table/or time. >> For example, when gemstone allows dale to work on metacello this is a contribution, when sven offers Zinc to the community >> while he could have kept it for him, this is a contribution. So a moral license is a license that let us get a bill for your accounting >> system, feel good and put money on software that you value. When I buy microsoft word (not a choice) I always feel ashamed >> that I cannot pay for the free software I used daily (for example the texshop environment I use: why because I would like it to get better and thank the guys for their job). A moral license allow you to do that. >> >> The key point of the consortium are the following ones: >> - structure the community. We need to get organized, strong, recognized.... (remember that we were part of the founders of >> the squeak foundation). Now we want to make it real :) >> >> - give a chance to make sure that if people like eliot are not available for Smalltalk we do not get our head stuck >> in the ground. So this is like death insurance: some people are afraid to talk about them and when they get crushed >> by a car their spouse can be in big mess. Personally if I die my family is covered and I do not think that I want to die >> tomorrow but I'm happy to think about potential problem. >> So the consortium is the way to secure our/your investment in Pharo. We want to be able to pay one engineer (igor for >> example) to improve it in addition to what we are doing. >> >> Sideline we hope to start a company around moose and software assessment and we want to give a chance to Pharo to get >> better and we need a structure that can deal with the money we would like to spend because we want to support effort because >> for our own business we need it better. >> >> Like everyday we go to buy our bread, the consortium should be a place where people can give money to support the >> community and its artefact. If we are only able to rely on people free time and willingness to get something done may be we should do something else. Now the consortium will not solve all our problems. But this is the first important step. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Can you explain a bit more? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> GermÃ¡n. >>> >> >> >> >

May 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] some news about the consortium

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Think of the consortium as a combination between an insurance company and a charity center. If Pharo is important enough for you to not afford to lose it, you might want to ensure that this will be around for a while. So, you will create an insurance for it. You can also choose not to. If you are a hobbyist doing something, but you care for the cause, you might want to donate for your soul. You can also choose not to. The world will still be spinning either way, and the code will still be MIT. :) Cheers, Doru On 25 May 2011, at 22:52, GermÃ¡n Arduino wrote: > Thanks for the explanation (and for the efforts). > > I think that lot of these things have sense and are needed. > > My main concern is about the license payments or not, if the people > using Pharo will be forced to pay or will be a volunteer contribution. > > Exist a very different universe of Pharo users (I mean hobbystic > users, home users, professional users, occasional profesional users, > open source users) and really I don't see very clearly how the > consortium will collect money in a fair way depending of the budget, > volunteer and possibilities of each person/company (More yet being > Pharo MIT). > > Cheers. > GermÃ¡n. > > > > 2011/5/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> Hi Stef: >>> >>> I yet have not clear how the consortium will work >> >> Money will be collected, tasks will be defined and done. >> Money will pay an engineer (I hope) to do a lot of work that a lot of us do not have the time nor the knowledge >> to do: VM, VM cleaning, VM improving, compiler, UI frameworks, and a lot of other stuff. >> >> Companies participating will be able to attend meetings if they have the time and will and discuss the agenda points. >> The process will be open. For example, instantiations mentioned that they would like to participate and this is ok. >> So we will even accept other Smalltalk representants that pay their participation because we do not see them as competitors. (especially when Pharo create young and cool Smalltalkers that can get hired by larger companies). >> >> May be you should listen my interview because >> http://www.jarober.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=IM_29:_Ph… >> >> >>> and what will be the >>> implicancies for the people (as me) that is using Pharo for some >>> projects. >> >> For people using pharo, they will have the possibility to get a better maintained system. Else nothing will change. >> You can be sure that you will not be forced to use another Smalltalks :). Just Pharo will continue to get better and better just faster. >> >> Users will also have the possibility to feel engaged in pharo by joining the consortium and paying a participation fee. >> We are discussing how much it should be and rates so that people with a low money do not pay more proportionally than others. >> We will discuss all that we the community. Right now we are looking for the ok of INRIA because it could open more doors. >> And Pharo success can help INRIA and us inside INRIA and Pharo via us if you see what I want to say. >> >> We are also looking at morale license. >> I like the idea that when I use something that I really like and save my day, I can put money on the table/or time. >> For example, when gemstone allows dale to work on metacello this is a contribution, when sven offers Zinc to the community >> while he could have kept it for him, this is a contribution. So a moral license is a license that let us get a bill for your accounting >> system, feel good and put money on software that you value. When I buy microsoft word (not a choice) I always feel ashamed >> that I cannot pay for the free software I used daily (for example the texshop environment I use: why because I would like it to get better and thank the guys for their job). A moral license allow you to do that. >> >> The key point of the consortium are the following ones: >> - structure the community. We need to get organized, strong, recognized.... (remember that we were part of the founders of >> the squeak foundation). Now we want to make it real :) >> >> - give a chance to make sure that if people like eliot are not available for Smalltalk we do not get our head stuck >> in the ground. So this is like death insurance: some people are afraid to talk about them and when they get crushed >> by a car their spouse can be in big mess. Personally if I die my family is covered and I do not think that I want to die >> tomorrow but I'm happy to think about potential problem. >> So the consortium is the way to secure our/your investment in Pharo. We want to be able to pay one engineer (igor for >> example) to improve it in addition to what we are doing. >> >> Sideline we hope to start a company around moose and software assessment and we want to give a chance to Pharo to get >> better and we need a structure that can deal with the money we would like to spend because we want to support effort because >> for our own business we need it better. >> >> Like everyday we go to buy our bread, the consortium should be a place where people can give money to support the >> community and its artefact. If we are only able to rely on people free time and willingness to get something done may be we should do something else. Now the consortium will not solve all our problems. But this is the first important step. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Can you explain a bit more? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> GermÃ¡n. >>> >> >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them."

May 25, 2011