April 2011 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

[ANN] new mailinglist for tracker mails

by Marcus Denker

The mails from the google tracker now go to this list: http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-bugtracker in turn, this means the traffic on the pharo-project list should be a bit more managable. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

April 18, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Vm-beginners] Re: [Vm-dev] [ANN] PharoCasts with Experts: Debug the Cog VM with Mariano Martinez Peck

by Igor Stasenko

On 17 April 2011 12:36, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys. I think there is a mistake..."expert"??? No....I am FAR from being > an expert. I amÂ just a newbie like you but that I try to share the minimum > I learn. > BTW, the video has a couple of mistakes I did that I want to share just in > case: > > 1) I downloaded git in an ugly directory (inside the build of another git > repository) and then I don't know why there was an error and I couldn't > download git sources again. So, I needed to stay with the ugly and confusing > directory. > > 2) When I debugged with XCode you could see there were a lot of '??' in the > debugger. This was wrong and it was because of a compiler flag in the Mac > builds. This was fixed a couple of days ago, what we were still using an old > version > > 3) when we put a flag in the method lookup for the #dnu it didn't work > because (I think) of the black magic that happens when executing things from > the workspace. If I would have evaluated the same code but from a method, it > should have worked > > BTW, How can I have such an ugly voice? heheh > You are not alone. Most people usually don't like how they sound. But you are not TV narrator/reporter to care about that. :) You did a great job Mariano & Laurent. Thanks! > Cheers > > Mariano -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 17, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Vm-dev] [ANN] PharoCasts with Experts: Debug the Cog VM with Mariano Martinez Peck

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi guys. I think there is a mistake..."expert"??? No....I am FAR from being an expert. I am just a newbie like you but that I try to share the minimum I learn. BTW, the video has a couple of mistakes I did that I want to share just in case: 1) I downloaded git in an ugly directory (inside the build of another git repository) and then I don't know why there was an error and I couldn't download git sources again. So, I needed to stay with the ugly and confusing directory. 2) When I debugged with XCode you could see there were a lot of '??' in the debugger. This was wrong and it was because of a compiler flag in the Mac builds. This was fixed a couple of days ago, what we were still using an old version 3) when we put a flag in the method lookup for the #dnu it didn't work because (I think) of the black magic that happens when executing things from the workspace. If I would have evaluated the same code but from a method, it should have worked BTW, How can I have such an ugly voice? heheh Cheers Mariano On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:55 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > Hi, > > First video of PharoCasts with Experts serie. > > Mariano explainsuys. in a 1h30 HD video: > - what the VM is made of > - what are the different VM built by the Pharo project continuous > integration server > - how to get the platform sources from Gitorious > - how to generate the interpreter sources using ConfigurationOfCogVM > - build the VM > - run and debug it with gdb and XCode > - what Slang is and how to change it for debugging purposes > > > Enjoy it here: http://www.pharocasts.com/2011/04/debug-cog-vm.html > > -- > > Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs > > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 17, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] PharoCasts with Experts: Debug the Cog VM with Mariano Martinez Peck

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks a lot laurent this is a great initiative. Stef > Hi, > > First video of PharoCasts with Experts serie. > > Mariano explains in a 1h30 HD video: > - what the VM is made of > - what are the different VM built by the Pharo project continuous > integration server > - how to get the platform sources from Gitorious > - how to generate the interpreter sources using ConfigurationOfCogVM > - build the VM > - run and debug it with gdb and XCode > - what Slang is and how to change it for debugging purposes > > > Enjoy it here: http://www.pharocasts.com/2011/04/debug-cog-vm.html > > -- > > Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs > > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st >

April 17, 2011

[ANN] PharoCasts with Experts: Debug the Cog VM with Mariano Martinez Peck

by laurent laffont

Hi, First video of PharoCasts with Experts serie. Mariano explains in a 1h30 HD video: - what the VM is made of - what are the different VM built by the Pharo project continuous integration server - how to get the platform sources from Gitorious - how to generate the interpreter sources using ConfigurationOfCogVM - build the VM - run and debug it with gdb and XCode - what Slang is and how to change it for debugging purposes Enjoy it here: http://www.pharocasts.com/2011/04/debug-cog-vm.html -- Laurent Laffont -Â @lolgzs Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st

April 17, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] ++ -- += -= ...

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2011 13:32, Ted F.A. van Gaalen <tedvga(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi there. > > I am probably not the first, and will not be > the last person to come up > with this suggestion, neverTheLess: > > To increment a numeric value I would like to write: > > aNum := 1. > aNum ++. Â Â Â Â Â Â to increment it > aNum --. Â Â Â Â Â Â to decrement it > this is wrong smalltalk syntax. ++ and -- are binary messages, which means you should pass an argument to message, i.e: num ++ x num -- y. If you want unary messages, use word: num increment num decrement unless of course you want to extend the number of special operators, which are only: ':=' for assignment and '^' for return. So, you wanna increase the number of syntax rules to either introduce new operators (++/--) or add reserved words (increment/decrement). But if we follow that road, then next day one would argue why we don't have operators like +=, *=, -= and so on.. And then smalltalk will slowly turn into C dialect, where all language semantics available through syntax, instead through implementation & message sends. Smalltalk having very small number of syntax rules comparing to other high level languages. And this is one of its best characteristics , among the rest. So i prefer it to be staying this way. > instead of: > aNum := aNum + 1. > > For reasons of efficiency and readability. > > Why? > Most, if not all, of today's computer processors > ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) > have INCrement en DECrement instructions, > which are much more efficient than addition > and subtraction instructions. > (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) > > Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, > which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. > > So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- > methods in Pharo? and VM. Â I am not sure, but I suspect also a number > of system classes e.g. in Â Â do: [:i|...] Â would perform better, > wenn this method/ instruction is supported? > > ? > > Kind Regards > Ted > Currently making/learning Pharo/Seaside app. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] ++ -- += -= ...

by Andres Valloud

64 bit x86 processors got rid of INC/DEC in favor of efficiency of other instructions and in favor of adding the REX prefix... On 4/16/11 4:32 , Ted F.A. van Gaalen wrote: > Hi there. > > I am probably not the first, and will not be > the last person to come up > with this suggestion, neverTheLess: > > To increment a numeric value I would like to write: > > aNum := 1. > aNum ++. to increment it > aNum --. to decrement it > > instead of: > aNum := aNum + 1. > > For reasons of efficiency and readability. > > Why? > Most, if not all, of today's computer processors > ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) > have INCrement en DECrement instructions, > which are much more efficient than addition > and subtraction instructions. > (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) > > Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, > which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. > > So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- > methods in Pharo? and VM. I am not sure, but I suspect also a number > of system classes e.g. in do: [:i|...] would perform better, > wenn this method/ instruction is supported? > > ? > > Kind Regards > Ted > Currently making/learning Pharo/Seaside app. > > . >

April 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] ++ -- += -= ...

by Tobias Pape

Hi, Am 2011-04-16 um 13:32 schrieb Ted F.A. van Gaalen: > Hi there. > > I am probably not the first, and will not be > the last person to come up > with this suggestion, neverTheLess: > > To increment a numeric value I would like to write: > > aNum := 1. > aNum ++. to increment it > aNum --. to decrement it > > instead of: > aNum := aNum + 1. > > For reasons of efficiency and readability. > > Why? > Most, if not all, of today's computer processors > ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) > have INCrement en DECrement instructions, > which are much more efficient than addition > and subtraction instructions. > (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) > Interestingly, this is already done when using a JIT, eg, the CogVM. But what is more important is, that in Smalltalk, Integers are unmodifiable. There are different concepts: in C, i++ means, "increase the number in the memory cell that i represents" however, in Smalltalk, i ++ would mean "send the object that is stored in i the message #++" And if a number, eg 42, is stored in i, then this would mean "send 42 the message #++" but what should the result be? should 42 transform itself into 43? Moreover, it is bad style in Object-Oriented programming to rely on side effects of a message: You're implicitly saying "I want the state of the object in i to change and rely on it later-on" whereas i := i + 1 is explicitly saying "I want a number greater than i and work with it later-on" > Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, > which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. > As I said this is subject to a JIT. > So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- > methods in Pharo? and VM. I am not sure, but I suspect also a number > of system classes e.g. in do: [:i|...] would perform better, > wenn this method/ instruction is supported? > I don't think so. So Long, -Tobias

April 16, 2011

++ -- += -= ...

by Ted F.A. van Gaalen

Hi there. I am probably not the first, and will not be the last person to come up with this suggestion, neverTheLess: To increment a numeric value I would like to write: aNum := 1. aNum ++. to increment it aNum --. to decrement it instead of: aNum := aNum + 1. For reasons of efficiency and readability. Why? Most, if not all, of today's computer processors ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) have INCrement en DECrement instructions, which are much more efficient than addition and subtraction instructions. (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- methods in Pharo? and VM. I am not sure, but I suspect also a number of system classes e.g. in do: [:i|...] would perform better, wenn this method/ instruction is supported? ? Kind Regards Ted Currently making/learning Pharo/Seaside app.

April 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] For reference: what's aBuilder when you see <worldMenu>

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

read the setting chapter :) On Apr 16, 2011, at 12:22 AM, DougEdmunds wrote: > When I got to methods involving menus and using pragmas, i.e., words in > pointy brackets, such as , I ran across most of them using the parameter > 'aBuilder'. > > Since there is no class 'Builder' the question becomes what is 'aBuilder'? > Since the core contains somewhere around 60 classes that contain the word > 'Builder', this is not easily answered. > > Thanks to the CollaborActive Book, there is an answer. > Section 3.4 currently states: > "The class WorldState builds the world menu using a PragmaMenuBuilder passed > to all methods defining the pragma." > > So presumably, wherever there is 'aBuilder', mentally change that to > 'aPragmaMenuBuilder', and you will be able to start figuring out what things > like > > (aBuilder item: #System) > order: 3.0; > > are talking about. For example, since PragmaMenuBuilder does not have a > method 'item:' but it inherits from MenuRegistration, which does, you can > look at the class MenuRegistration to figure out what 'aBuilder' is doing > with #System, before whatever that is does something with order: :) > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/For-reference-what-s-aBuilder-when-you-see-worldMenu-… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

April 16, 2011