October 2011 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Loading Seaside 3.0 cripples System browser

by Dale Henrichs

Tangaloor, Other systems have conditional compilation and Smalltalk has conditional loading ... OmniBrowser and its eco system is very brittle ... it seems that they OB is constantly breaking when the underlying system changes (not surprising at one level), but that causes particular problems for Seaside, because it must have one window that is written against OB ... I think that the OB configuration is no longer maintained so it is a shame that this is affecting the use of Seaside30... one can load without that particular OB dependency but you need to understand a little more about Seaside and Metacello (you must decide which packages you want over and above the Base system). I never load the full system anymore, because of the headaches that OB causes ... it does seem to be constantly broken ... If I had my druthers I would change the Seaside30 configuration so that it was easy to exclude OB, but I am not the only one making decisions about the config ... I am a bit busy for the next few days, but if you ping me at the end of the week, I will publish the instructions for loading Seaside30 without OB ... if you google around a bit you will probably find several threads on this topic (and even quite possibly instructions on how to load Seaside30 without OB:)... Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Tangaloor" <tanga(a)tanga.org> | To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:59:56 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Loading Seaside 3.0 cripples System browser | | I'm also having this issue. I'm fairly new to Smalltalk and Pharo. | I've | used the Seaside One-click installer and don't remember there being | issues | with the System Browser there. I have tried running: | | Gofer new | squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; | package: 'ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser'; | load. | | (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project latestVersion) load. | | and | | (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project version: #stable) load. | | And that seems to have a similar set of dependency issues. Also, | when you | dig into the version specs, it seems like it's grabbing #stable of | ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser. I admin that I don't know enough about | Metacello to know if that's just the version for the | ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser or if it calls out the specific Monticello | versions that it is supposed to be grabbing. It does seem like the | #stable | label would seem to be a moving target, though, and shouldn't | necessarily be | called out inside these package recipes. I'm new to this framework, | but | other systems that use auto-build and deployment delivery systems | often seem | to try and be very specific about the versions that are depended | upon. | | | Charles Monteiro wrote: | > | > I downloaded the Pharo 1.3 one click. | > | > I then attempted to load Seaside using the following mechanism: | > | > Gofer new | > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; | > package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside30'; | > load. | > | > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside30) project latestVersion) | > load. | > | > It complained twice about some package dependencies i.e. related to | > RBxxx | > packages. I proceeded through both and it seemingly terminated | > fine. | > Seaside was loaded including the Seaside control panel. However, | > doing a | > right mouse over the leftmost panel (Categories) resulted in an | > MNU. | > Also stuff like syntax highlighting became inactive. | > | > Is there a way to load the latest and greatest Seaside into Pharo | > 1.3 with | > "all" pre-req dependencies resolved ? i.e. how can I load Seaside | > clean ? | > | > | > thanks in advance | > | > -Charles | > | | | -- | View this message in context: | http://forum.world.st/Loading-Seaside-3-0-cripples-System-browser-tp3880813… | Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at | Nabble.com. | |

Oct. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Loading Seaside 3.0 cripples System browser

by Tangaloor

I'm also having this issue. I'm fairly new to Smalltalk and Pharo. I've used the Seaside One-click installer and don't remember there being issues with the System Browser there. I have tried running: Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser'; load. (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project latestVersion) load. and (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project version: #stable) load. And that seems to have a similar set of dependency issues. Also, when you dig into the version specs, it seems like it's grabbing #stable of ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser. I admin that I don't know enough about Metacello to know if that's just the version for the ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser or if it calls out the specific Monticello versions that it is supposed to be grabbing. It does seem like the #stable label would seem to be a moving target, though, and shouldn't necessarily be called out inside these package recipes. I'm new to this framework, but other systems that use auto-build and deployment delivery systems often seem to try and be very specific about the versions that are depended upon. Charles Monteiro wrote: > > I downloaded the Pharo 1.3 one click. > > I then attempted to load Seaside using the following mechanism: > > Gofer new > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfSeaside30'; > load. > > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside30) project latestVersion) load. > > It complained twice about some package dependencies i.e. related to RBxxx > packages. I proceeded through both and it seemingly terminated fine. > Seaside was loaded including the Seaside control panel. However, doing a > right mouse over the leftmost panel (Categories) resulted in an MNU. > Also stuff like syntax highlighting became inactive. > > Is there a way to load the latest and greatest Seaside into Pharo 1.3 with > "all" pre-req dependencies resolved ? i.e. how can I load Seaside clean ? > > > thanks in advance > > -Charles > -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Loading-Seaside-3-0-cripples-System-browser-tp3880813… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by Larry White

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 3:03 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Now depending on the situation and the money collected we will be able to hire people but they will have to be located in france. Just what I needed: another reason to wish I lived in France :)

Oct. 11, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

you are welcome :) Stef > OK, thanks for the answer, it seems I had missunderstood :) > > 2011/10/11 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 1:08 PM, Bernat Romagosa wrote: > > > Maybe I didn't understand right, but what you mean is that Pharo is going to end being free of charge for people who use it commercially? > > not at all. > I never say that or even think about it. > > We are talking about consortium participation. The all point is how can we make sure that as a community we structure ourselves and put > money or time on the table. > > > > If so, the fees you propose for single-person companies and small companies look a little bit high to me... I would at least make them depend on the benefits or some other kind of deal. Last year I was trying to set up a small company (a dev + a designer) with a friend of mine, and a fee of 2500â¬ would have definitely been a big barrier for us... > > We should find successful small companies :) > After we should have a free moral license so that companies can contribute. > > > > Also, you need to make very clear how frequently is the company supposed to pay the fee is it one single payment for life, monthly, yearly? > good points. > yearly. > > Stef > > > > > Cheers, > > > > 2011/10/11 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > > > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> There some strings attached: We will not be able to pay remote development since this is regulated under the public market french laws > > >> but we will be able to hire people (on french rate if they work in France). We will have to see the legal period to spent the money. > > > > > > this restriction applies to 50k Euro given by INRIA, or to total money > > > collected from all members of consortium? > > > > All money because it will be managed by INRIA as any other INRIA projects (like our team) and we are all following these rules: > > this is not that we cannot but it means that > > - we have to spend 2/4-8 weeks to write done what we want > > - it will be published in the journal official > > - companies will be able to bid > > - then there is a selection phase > > - then you get the work started to the get done > > The problem is that this is lengthly and you have control the result > > > > Now depending on the situation and the money collected we will be able to hire people but they will have to be located in france. > > > > This is why if the consortium is successful (which we hope) the idea is to get out of INRIA > > but this means that there is nothing like a free lunch > > - specific accountant > > - balblbaabablabl > > - and more > > > > Do not hesitate to ask question. > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > Davorin Rusevljan > > > http://www.cloud208.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bernat Romagosa. > > > > > > -- > Bernat Romagosa.

Oct. 11, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by Bernat Romagosa

OK, thanks for the answer, it seems I had missunderstood :) 2011/10/11 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 1:08 PM, Bernat Romagosa wrote: > > > Maybe I didn't understand right, but what you mean is that Pharo is going > to end being free of charge for people who use it commercially? > > not at all. > I never say that or even think about it. > > We are talking about consortium participation. The all point is how can we > make sure that as a community we structure ourselves and put > money or time on the table. > > > > If so, the fees you propose for single-person companies and small > companies look a little bit high to me... I would at least make them depend > on the benefits or some other kind of deal. Last year I was trying to set up > a small company (a dev + a designer) with a friend of mine, and a fee of > 2500â¬ would have definitely been a big barrier for us... > > We should find successful small companies :) > After we should have a free moral license so that companies can contribute. > > > > Also, you need to make very clear how frequently is the company supposed > to pay the fee is it one single payment for life, monthly, yearly? > good points. > yearly. > > Stef > > > > > Cheers, > > > > 2011/10/11 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > > > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> There some strings attached: We will not be able to pay remote > development since this is regulated under the public market french laws > > >> but we will be able to hire people (on french rate if they work in > France). We will have to see the legal period to spent the money. > > > > > > this restriction applies to 50k Euro given by INRIA, or to total money > > > collected from all members of consortium? > > > > All money because it will be managed by INRIA as any other INRIA projects > (like our team) and we are all following these rules: > > this is not that we cannot but it means that > > - we have to spend 2/4-8 weeks to write done what we want > > - it will be published in the journal official > > - companies will be able to bid > > - then there is a selection phase > > - then you get the work started to the get done > > The problem is that this is lengthly and you have control > the result > > > > Now depending on the situation and the money collected we will be able to > hire people but they will have to be located in france. > > > > This is why if the consortium is successful (which we hope) the idea is > to get out of INRIA > > but this means that there is nothing like a free lunch > > - specific accountant > > - balblbaabablabl > > - and more > > > > Do not hesitate to ask question. > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > Davorin Rusevljan > > > http://www.cloud208.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bernat Romagosa. > > > -- Bernat Romagosa.

Oct. 11, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 11, 2011, at 1:08 PM, Bernat Romagosa wrote: > Maybe I didn't understand right, but what you mean is that Pharo is going to end being free of charge for people who use it commercially? not at all. I never say that or even think about it. We are talking about consortium participation. The all point is how can we make sure that as a community we structure ourselves and put money or time on the table. > If so, the fees you propose for single-person companies and small companies look a little bit high to me... I would at least make them depend on the benefits or some other kind of deal. Last year I was trying to set up a small company (a dev + a designer) with a friend of mine, and a fee of 2500â¬ would have definitely been a big barrier for us... We should find successful small companies :) After we should have a free moral license so that companies can contribute. > Also, you need to make very clear how frequently is the company supposed to pay the fee is it one single payment for life, monthly, yearly? good points. yearly. Stef > > Cheers, > > 2011/10/11 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> There some strings attached: We will not be able to pay remote development since this is regulated under the public market french laws > >> but we will be able to hire people (on french rate if they work in France). We will have to see the legal period to spent the money. > > > > this restriction applies to 50k Euro given by INRIA, or to total money > > collected from all members of consortium? > > All money because it will be managed by INRIA as any other INRIA projects (like our team) and we are all following these rules: > this is not that we cannot but it means that > - we have to spend 2/4-8 weeks to write done what we want > - it will be published in the journal official > - companies will be able to bid > - then there is a selection phase > - then you get the work started to the get done > The problem is that this is lengthly and you have control the result > > Now depending on the situation and the money collected we will be able to hire people but they will have to be located in france. > > This is why if the consortium is successful (which we hope) the idea is to get out of INRIA > but this means that there is nothing like a free lunch > - specific accountant > - balblbaabablabl > - and more > > Do not hesitate to ask question. > > Stef > > > > > Davorin Rusevljan > > http://www.cloud208.com/ > > > > > > > > -- > Bernat Romagosa.

Oct. 11, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by Bernat Romagosa

Maybe I didn't understand right, but what you mean is that Pharo is going to end being free of charge for people who use it commercially? If so, the fees you propose for single-person companies and small companies look a little bit high to me... I would at least make them depend on the benefits or some other kind of deal. Last year I was trying to set up a small company (a dev + a designer) with a friend of mine, and a fee of 2500â¬ would have definitely been a big barrier for us... Also, you need to make very clear how frequently is the company supposed to pay the fee is it one single payment for life, monthly, yearly? Cheers, 2011/10/11 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> There some strings attached: We will not be able to pay remote > development since this is regulated under the public market french laws > >> but we will be able to hire people (on french rate if they work in > France). We will have to see the legal period to spent the money. > > > > this restriction applies to 50k Euro given by INRIA, or to total money > > collected from all members of consortium? > > All money because it will be managed by INRIA as any other INRIA projects > (like our team) and we are all following these rules: > this is not that we cannot but it means that > - we have to spend 2/4-8 weeks to write done what we want > - it will be published in the journal official > - companies will be able to bid > - then there is a selection phase > - then you get the work started to the get done > The problem is that this is lengthly and you have control > the result > > Now depending on the situation and the money collected we will be able to > hire people but they will have to be located in france. > > This is why if the consortium is successful (which we hope) the idea is to > get out of INRIA > but this means that there is nothing like a free lunch > - specific accountant > - balblbaabablabl > - and more > > Do not hesitate to ask question. > > Stef > > > > > Davorin Rusevljan > > http://www.cloud208.com/ > > > > > -- Bernat Romagosa.

Oct. 11, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote: > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> There some strings attached: We will not be able to pay remote development since this is regulated under the public market french laws >> but we will be able to hire people (on french rate if they work in France). We will have to see the legal period to spent the money. > > this restriction applies to 50k Euro given by INRIA, or to total money > collected from all members of consortium? All money because it will be managed by INRIA as any other INRIA projects (like our team) and we are all following these rules: this is not that we cannot but it means that - we have to spend 2/4-8 weeks to write done what we want - it will be published in the journal official - companies will be able to bid - then there is a selection phase - then you get the work started to the get done The problem is that this is lengthly and you have control the result Now depending on the situation and the money collected we will be able to hire people but they will have to be located in france. This is why if the consortium is successful (which we hope) the idea is to get out of INRIA but this means that there is nothing like a free lunch - specific accountant - balblbaabablabl - and more Do not hesitate to ask question. Stef > > Davorin Rusevljan > http://www.cloud208.com/ >

Oct. 11, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by Davorin Rusevljan

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > There some strings attached: We will not be able to pay remote development since this is regulated under the public market french laws > but we will be able to hire people (on french rate if they work in France). Â We will have to see the legal period to spent the money. this restriction applies to 50k Euro given by INRIA, or to total money collected from all members of consortium? Davorin Rusevljan http://www.cloud208.com/

Oct. 11, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Consortium News: let's make it real.

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Excellent news! On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Hello everybody > > We got a final discussion with INRIA representatives and we will now set up > a consortium for pharo. > INRIA will support the consortium by funding on advanced engineer for a > year (may be two if the > consortium work well). So this is quite good around 55Keuros on consortium. > > There some strings attached: We will not be able to pay remote development > since this is regulated under the public market french laws > but we will be able to hire people (on french rate if they work in France). > We will have to see the legal period to spent the money. > > The general idea is to see how the consortium evolves: ideally we would > like to see if we can get it outside inria within a five years > period. > > Now what we plan to do: > - We would like to make the list of companies that sign the > agreement letter public. > Because this is important that other companies joins the consortium. > > - We will offer a free participation to any individual. > > - We are wondering if we could have a academic fee for the > institution that want it: > we have to discuss the fee. Any suggestions would be good: I was > thinking that 500 Euros would be good for rich countries > and 200 for the other ones. Now tell us. > > - We could also have way to pay a license or a way to give money to > the consortium. > > Now the complex part: > - we would like to collect money from companies and again we will > need your help > to understand what is the correct model. > We are thinking: > single person company: starting at 300 Euros > "small company": starting at 2500 Euros > large companies: starting at 5000 Euros. > > We would like to keep the model really simple and transparent. > > Now our goal is to be able to pay an engineer like igor full time because > there is so much to do. > But each day we get closer to what we want. > > Stef and Marcus. > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 10, 2011