January 2011 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk server pages

by Annick Fron

Zinc look great, small and fast How is it possible to check seaside dependencies to get a minimal seaside ? Annick Fron Le 5 janv. 2011 Ã 13:37, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > did you check Zinc on squeaksource? > there is also H***View (goran and giovanni framework) sorry I could not find the name. > > Stef > > On Jan 5, 2011, at 12:43 PM, Annick Fron wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> and in order to get a minimum of dynamic pages, (I think Seaside will be too large for my memory) what is best to get simple Smalltalk server pages, swazoo or Komhttpserver ? >> >> Annick Fron > > >

Jan. 6, 2011

James Robertosn's Pharo videos added to website

by Mariano Martinez Peck

In: http://www.pharo-project.org/documentation/screencasts<http://www.pharo-project.org/documentation/screencasts> cheers mariano

Jan. 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-project] Minimal pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

send code :) On Jan 5, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Luc Fabresse wrote: > Hi all, > > Yes, I agree with Adrian, all cleanings should be integrated. > Perhaps in #cleanUpForProduction that already integrates some elements pointed by Mariano. > > #Luc > > > 2011/1/5 Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > > On Jan 4, 2011, at 22:42 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > ps: I wonder if any of those scripts should be added to ScriptLoader > > Yes, that would be good! Like this we can improve them and other people can contribute. > > Esteban, could you share your experience with unloading packages? I assume you had to also reorganize packages to make them cleanly unloadable? If yes these changes should be integrated to improve the modularization. > > Cheers, > Adrian >

Jan. 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk server pages

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

did you check Zinc on squeaksource? there is also H***View (goran and giovanni framework) sorry I could not find the name. Stef On Jan 5, 2011, at 12:43 PM, Annick Fron wrote: > Hi, > > and in order to get a minimum of dynamic pages, (I think Seaside will be too large for my memory) what is best to get simple Smalltalk server pages, swazoo or Komhttpserver ? > > Annick Fron

Jan. 5, 2011

GUI confused

by Jeff Gray

I've been looking at the UITheme examples such as exampleBasicControls. I'm used to building windows (in e.g. C#) where I create a subclass of a window class and then extend it with controls and methods. Looking at the UITheme examples it is building up a window by creating an instance of PluggableDialogWindow and then calling methods to add controls. If I have a number of windows in my app would I have one class to build all the windows? How do I hook up methods? Would they be methods in this window building class? Am I missing the point? :-) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GUI-confused-tp3175361p3175361.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 5, 2011

Smalltalk server pages

by Annick Fron

Hi, and in order to get a minimum of dynamic pages, (I think Seaside will be too large for my memory) what is best to get simple Smalltalk server pages, swazoo or Komhttpserver ? Annick Fron

Jan. 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo

by Annick Fron

Ok thanks Le 4 janv. 2011 Ã 22:48, Mariano Martinez Peck a Ã©crit : > > > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Annick Fron <info(a)afceurope.com> wrote: > > Le 4 janv. 2011 Ã 21:51, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > > > Annick > > > >> I have now tried the minimal images indicated by Torsten and Stephane, on Windows it amounts to 9.1 Mega in memory ... > >> Would it be smaller on Linux ? > Any idea on this ? > > I don't think so. It should be the same. > > >> Yet, I still need a shoe horn, having only 8 M ram from which 1.5 is already taken by the kernel... > > > > do you need the sources? > On Linux ? I had trouble installing Squeak on Linux. > > No, Stef wanted to said the .sources file of Pharo. Did you see that you need a Pharo1.0.sources file??? > Ok, that's not needed for a deployed app since it will decompile the methods in case you browse them (you wont have the tmp names thought), > > To get rid of sources, you need to evaluate Smalltalk abandonSources > > > > > The minikernel image is 2 mb > > Now you should also release the cache of MC and do several incantation and you can get to a more reasonable size. > > I am not too familiar with the environment, so it will me some time before I understand package loading and so on. > I don't understand why there are shell scripts together with Smalltalk scripts. > > The shell scripts are just to shrink down the PharoCore image and build a PharoKernel from it. > You can just download the PharoKernel image (no need to run the shell scripts, this is only if you want to build the PharoKernel by your own). But be aware that PharoKernel is REALLY kernel. There is no UI, and the way to interact with it is just passing a smalltalk script file at startup. > > > > > >> Any idea to downsize even more ? > > > > There are more to throw away and we are always trying to componentize it. > > Did you remove the tests? > Not yet > > As said in my previous email, #cleanUpForProduction does that. > > Cheers > > mariano > > > > > > >> Best regards > >> > >> Annick Fron > > > > > > > > >

Jan. 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo

by Luc Fabresse

Hi all, Yes, I agree with Adrian, all cleanings should be integrated. Perhaps in #cleanUpForProduction that already integrates some elements pointed by Mariano. #Luc 2011/1/5 Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > > On Jan 4, 2011, at 22:42 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > ps: I wonder if any of those scripts should be added to ScriptLoader > > Yes, that would be good! Like this we can improve them and other people can > contribute. > > Esteban, could you share your experience with unloading packages? I assume > you had to also reorganize packages to make them cleanly unloadable? If yes > these changes should be integrated to improve the modularization. > > Cheers, > Adrian >

Jan. 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo

by Adrian Lienhard

On Jan 4, 2011, at 22:42 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > ps: I wonder if any of those scripts should be added to ScriptLoader Yes, that would be good! Like this we can improve them and other people can contribute. Esteban, could you share your experience with unloading packages? I assume you had to also reorganize packages to make them cleanly unloadable? If yes these changes should be integrated to improve the modularization. Cheers, Adrian

Jan. 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Annick Fron <info(a)afceurope.com> wrote: > > Le 4 janv. 2011 Ã 21:51, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > > > Annick > > > >> I have now tried the minimal images indicated by Torsten and Stephane, > on Windows it amounts to 9.1 Mega in memory ... > >> Would it be smaller on Linux ? > Any idea on this ? > I don't think so. It should be the same. > >> Yet, I still need a shoe horn, having only 8 M ram from which 1.5 is > already taken by the kernel... > > > > do you need the sources? > On Linux ? I had trouble installing Squeak on Linux. > No, Stef wanted to said the .sources file of Pharo. Did you see that you need a Pharo1.0.sources file??? Ok, that's not needed for a deployed app since it will decompile the methods in case you browse them (you wont have the tmp names thought), To get rid of sources, you need to evaluate Smalltalk abandonSources > > The minikernel image is 2 mb > > Now you should also release the cache of MC and do several incantation > and you can get to a more reasonable size. > > I am not too familiar with the environment, so it will me some time before > I understand package loading and so on. > I don't understand why there are shell scripts together with Smalltalk > scripts. > The shell scripts are just to shrink down the PharoCore image and build a PharoKernel from it. You can just download the PharoKernel image (no need to run the shell scripts, this is only if you want to build the PharoKernel by your own). But be aware that PharoKernel is REALLY kernel. There is no UI, and the way to interact with it is just passing a smalltalk script file at startup. > > > >> Any idea to downsize even more ? > > > > There are more to throw away and we are always trying to componentize it. > > Did you remove the tests? > Not yet > As said in my previous email, #cleanUpForProduction does that. Cheers mariano > > > > >> Best regards > >> > >> Annick Fron > > > > > > > > >

Jan. 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Annick. I don't know which image they told you, but if you take a PharoCore 1.1.1 from here: http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable-core And you evaluate: ScriptLoader new cleanUpForRelease. And then save and quite, the image is 6.8 MB. Another hack I sometimes do is o put all all classes with the default category. You can still can browse and recompile the whole image. Most production enviroments don't care about categories...they make sense when developing. (not everybody agree). But anyway, if you then evaluate: Smalltalk allClassesAndTraitsDo: [:each | each zapOrganization ]. Symbol compactSymbolTable. Smalltalk garbageCollect Then the resulted image is 6.1 mb ;) If you then evaluate: "Compact all MethodDictionary instances" | oldInstances newInstances | oldInstances := MethodDictionary allInstances. newInstances := oldInstances collect: [ :md | (MethodDictionary new: md size) compactCopyFrom: md; yourself]. oldInstances elementsForwardIdentityTo: newInstances. "Different cleanUps" TextStyle allSubInstancesDo: [:ts | ts newFontArray: (ts fontArray copyFrom: 1 to: (2 min: ts fontArray size))]. "Clean all Monticello related stuff. You won't be able to browse packages for example" MCWorkingCopyBrowser allInstancesDo: [:each | each flushAllCaches ]. MCWorkingCopy allInstancesDo:[:wc| SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance noMoreNotificationsFor: wc. wc unregister]. SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance noMoreNotificationsFor: MCPackageManager. SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance noMoreNotificationsFor: MCWorkingCopy. "Most application don't need sound" SoundService default: nil. SoundService unregister: DummySoundSystem. SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance noMoreNotificationsFor: (Smalltalk at: #RecentMessageSet). TranscriptStream newTranscript: ThreadSafeTranscript new. ImageSegment classPool at: #RecentlyRenamedClasses put: Dictionary new. ExternalSettings classPool at: #RegisteredClients put: Set new. Locale classPool at: #LocaleChangeListeners put: nil. "Clean all the changes" ChangeSet resetCurrentToNewUnnamedChange Set. ChangeSet current initialize. ChangeSet classPool at: #AllChangeSets put: (OrderedCollection with: ChangeSet current). Symbol rehash. 3 timesRepeat: [ Smalltalk garbageCollect. Symbol compactSymbolTable ]. You will have a 5.9 MB image :) is that enought? If not, you can start unloading packages. Esteban did a lot of work with this of IPhone images. You can ask him. ps: I wonder if any of those scripts should be added to ScriptLoader Cheers Mariano On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Annick Fron <info(a)afceurope.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have now tried the minimal images indicated by Torsten and Stephane, on > Windows it amounts to 9.1 Mega in memory ... > Would it be smaller on Linux ? > Yet, I still need a shoe horn, having only 8 M ram from which 1.5 is > already taken by the kernel... > Any idea to downsize even more ? > Best regards > > Annick Fron >

Jan. 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo

by Annick Fron

Le 4 janv. 2011 Ã 21:51, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > Annick > >> I have now tried the minimal images indicated by Torsten and Stephane, on Windows it amounts to 9.1 Mega in memory ... >> Would it be smaller on Linux ? Any idea on this ? >> Yet, I still need a shoe horn, having only 8 M ram from which 1.5 is already taken by the kernel... > > do you need the sources? On Linux ? I had trouble installing Squeak on Linux. > The minikernel image is 2 mb > Now you should also release the cache of MC and do several incantation and you can get to a more reasonable size. I am not too familiar with the environment, so it will me some time before I understand package loading and so on. I don't understand why there are shell scripts together with Smalltalk scripts. > >> Any idea to downsize even more ? > > There are more to throw away and we are always trying to componentize it. > Did you remove the tests? Not yet > > >> Best regards >> >> Annick Fron > > >

Jan. 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Annick > I have now tried the minimal images indicated by Torsten and Stephane, on Windows it amounts to 9.1 Mega in memory ... > Would it be smaller on Linux ? > Yet, I still need a shoe horn, having only 8 M ram from which 1.5 is already taken by the kernel... do you need the sources? The minikernel image is 2 mb Now you should also release the cache of MC and do several incantation and you can get to a more reasonable size. > Any idea to downsize even more ? There are more to throw away and we are always trying to componentize it. Did you remove the tests? > Best regards > > Annick Fron

Jan. 4, 2011

Minimal pharo

by Annick Fron

Hi all, I have now tried the minimal images indicated by Torsten and Stephane, on Windows it amounts to 9.1 Mega in memory ... Would it be smaller on Linux ? Yet, I still need a shoe horn, having only 8 M ram from which 1.5 is already taken by the kernel... Any idea to downsize even more ? Best regards Annick Fron

Jan. 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Telnet client

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Aidan, I have no idea, but I cc'ed pharo-dev mailing list just in case someone can help mariano On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Aidan Gauland <aidalgol(a)no8wireless.co.nz>wrote: > Hi, > > I want to create a MUD <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD> client (a > client for games played over Telnet) with Pharo, but I'm stuck on how > best to use Pharo as a Telnet client. I've heard of the cURL plugin, > but I'm not sure if that can be (easily) used for anything other than > file transfers. Even if I built and installed it, I'm not confident > I'd be able to tell for certain whether I can use it in the way I > want. I also found this > <http://map.squeak.org/package/14bcecc6-dbb8-4866-bb0c-25278ca882ba>, > but that's about eight years old and its homepage link is dead, so it > doesn't look too promising. I found TelnetProtocolClient in the Pharo > image, but that does not seem to be at all what I need. > > Can someone with experience with telnetting from within Pharo/Squeak > point me in the right direction? > > Thanks, > Aidan > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAk0hlP4ACgkQjyzTRvYJmaV/3QCePcuRL3E1EX1OYjT6nVGSjnyl > VoQAoIF507GVLtaWENeKTOYbhSWGqrmh > =JWyt > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >

Jan. 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Telnet client

by Sean P. DeNigris

Finding old ( and sometimes new ;-) ) Squeak code is a bit of an art. I find the Nabble search of all Smalltalk mailing lists (or you can restrict to sub groups/lists e.g. just Pharo) the best starting point (http://forum.world.st/) Searching on "telnet" produced a link to the code for the Telnet project you found (the thread is called "Net::Telnet equivalent"). Also, a google search on "squeak smalltalk telnet" produced the following additional leads: * Download some old images; "December 2004... Squeak has built in a very basic telnet client" http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1523 * look at the Curl plugin; "adds an new repository type that uses the Curl Plugin... supports TELNET http://www.squeaksource.com/monticellossl" HTH, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Telnet-client-tp3171716p3172111.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 3, 2011

Telnet client

by Aidan Gauland

Hi, I want to create a MUD <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD> client (a client for games played over Telnet) with Pharo, but I'm stuck on how best to use Pharo as a Telnet client. I've heard of the cURL plugin, but I'm not sure if that can be (easily) used for anything other than file transfers. Even if I built and installed it, I'm not confident I'd be able to tell for certain whether I can use it in the way I want. I also found this <http://map.squeak.org/package/14bcecc6-dbb8-4866-bb0c-25278ca882ba>, but that's about eight years old and its homepage link is dead, so it doesn't look too promising. I found TelnetProtocolClient in the Pharo image, but that does not seem to be at all what I need. Can someone with experience with telnetting from within Pharo/Squeak point me in the right direction? Thanks, Aidan

Jan. 3, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Numbers showing up in Transcript

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Daniel Klein <danielk(a)danielk.us> wrote: > There is issue 2610, but it is 'closed'. The closing comment, by > marcus.denker, is: "I think this has been fixed in 1.2" > > Thanks for the research. Indeed, it is solved in pharo 1.2 > I can't tell if it is fixed on 1.2 cos I don't know how to turn this > behavior on? What setting is it? > > I can reproduce it on 1.1 with these steps: > > 1) Open the the Transcript window > 2) Open a Shout Workspace > 3) type a ( or [, (or any of the special characters that automatically > display the 'closing' character), then move the cursor with the right or > left arrow key > > The numbers that show up in the Transcript are the column positions of the > characters. It appears to be some debugging code left in. > > Excellent. With this help, I just put a breakpoint in ThreadSafeTranscript >> #show: and see who was calling it ;) The result was that it was being called from ECController >> checkNeedlesCharacter: aCharacter | result | oppositeChar ifNil: [ ^ false ]. result := oppositeChar = aCharacter. result ifTrue: [caret = (editor caret - 1) ifTrue: [editor selectAt: editor caret + 1. self invalidateEditorMorph] ifFalse: [editor zapSelectionWith: aCharacter asString. editor selectFrom: editor caret + 1 to: editor caret]]. Transcript crShow: caret; space; show: editor caret. oppositeChar := nil. ^ result This is the completion tool. It is not part of pharo core, but in Pharo1.2 it is fixed becuase it uses newer versions of OCompletion, with seems to have fixed this. If I wanted to find where this bug is myself, where would I start to look? > Can you give me a hint? > > First, put a breakpoint in the transcript show: was a good idea. Then, you can serach in all the code, the stringf 'Transcript show:' for example > *** > > Another question: How can I search the source code in the image for a > particular string? > > type the string somewhere, for example, 'Transcript show:', right button -> "extended search" -> "method source with it" > Dan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] *On Behalf Of *Mariano Martinez > Peck > *Sent:* Thursday, December 30, 2010 11:27 > > *To:* A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] Numbers showing up in Transcript > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Daniel Klein <danielk(a)danielk.us> wrote: > >> I'm getting a bunch of numbers showing up in the Transcript without my >> doing anything (that I know of). For example: >> >> 18 19 >> 19 20 >> 22 29 >> 557 562 >> 570 571 >> 598 599 >> 514 515 >> >> What are they? And why are they showing up? >> > > Hi dan. Yes, I saw that also. Definitvly it is a bug. I am sure there is > some Transcript show: somewhere in the pharo base code.... > I think there is an issue opened with it on the bug tracker. can you check? > > It would be nice to found the place where this print was left on :( > > Mariano >

Jan. 2, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Numbers showing up in Transcript

by Daniel Klein

There is issue 2610, but it is 'closed'. The closing comment, by marcus.denker, is: "I think this has been fixed in 1.2" I can't tell if it is fixed on 1.2 cos I don't know how to turn this behavior on? What setting is it? I can reproduce it on 1.1 with these steps: 1) Open the the Transcript window 2) Open a Shout Workspace 3) type a ( or [, (or any of the special characters that automatically display the 'closing' character), then move the cursor with the right or left arrow key The numbers that show up in the Transcript are the column positions of the characters. It appears to be some debugging code left in. If I wanted to find where this bug is myself, where would I start to look? Can you give me a hint? *** Another question: How can I search the source code in the image for a particular string? Dan _____ From: pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 11:27 To: A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Numbers showing up in Transcript On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Daniel Klein <danielk(a)danielk.us> wrote: I'm getting a bunch of numbers showing up in the Transcript without my doing anything (that I know of). For example: 18 19 19 20 22 29 557 562 570 571 598 599 514 515 What are they? And why are they showing up? Hi dan. Yes, I saw that also. Definitvly it is a bug. I am sure there is some Transcript show: somewhere in the pharo base code.... I think there is an issue opened with it on the bug tracker. can you check? It would be nice to found the place where this print was left on :( Mariano

Jan. 2, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] minimal pharo image

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Annick, You may also want to try ScriptLoader new cleanUpForProduction; cleanUpForRelease This shrinks a 1.0/1.1 image to 7MB or less IIRC (don't know the size for the current 1.2). Cheers, Adrian On Dec 22, 2010, at 12:39 , Annick Fron wrote: > Hi, thank you to all, > > I have fever those days, I will have a look in January. > > My best wishes for 2011 ! > > Le 21 dÃ©c. 2010 Ã 23:47, Mariano Martinez Peck a Ã©crit : > >> Hi Annick. You should know also that there is a lot of work arround pharo for having smaller images than Pharo kernel. >> >> The project is known as Seed, and Nicolas (cc'ed) may have someting else to say. >> >> Here I paste some slides: here >> >> Video: Seed project: The challenge of creating a Smalltalk kernel >> >> cheers >> >> mariano >> >> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Pat Maddox <patmaddox(a)me.com> wrote: >> On Dec 20, 2010, at 3:20 AM, Annick Fron wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I am looking for a minimal pharo image. Does anyone know how much file space I need for a minimal image with smalltalk servlets and http at least, or even Seaside ? >>> >>> Annick Fron >> >> I don't know the answer to that. You can download the PharoCore image from http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download and install the packages you need. >> >> Pat >> >> >

Jan. 1, 2011