August 2010 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

[update 1.2] #12109

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

12109 ----- - Issue 2856: Use unique URL to core from [Dev image]->World Menu->System>Software update. Thanks Sean De Nigris - Issue 2855: Improve Duration method comments. Gracias Guillermo Polito. - Integrated NullStyler. Thanks Benjamin van Ryseghem. I put it in the same package than the new text editor. Stef (a bit more busy than used and this is sunny and the kids have new rollerblades so we should run together :)

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] first draft of a pharo zen

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

New version â¢ Easy to understand, easy to learn from, easy to fix â¢ Examples to learn from â¢ Fully dynamic and malleable â¢ Beauty in the code, beauty in the comments â¢ Simplicity is beautiful â¢ Communication is key â¢ Classes structure our vocabulary â¢ Messages are our vocabulary â¢ Polymorphism is our esperanto â¢ Better a number of small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one â¢ Tests are important but can be changed â¢ Abstraction and composition are our friends â¢ Explicit is better than implicit â¢ Magic only at the right place â¢ Simple processes to support progress â¢ One step at a time â¢ There is no unimportant fix â¢ Quality is a emerging property â¢ Lovely objects are everything and everything is an object. â¢ A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] [SPAM] Re: first draft of a pharo zen

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

I like the manifesto as well. I think what StÃ©phane means is that you as a developer can understand the whole system. For me that is one of the main strong points of Smalltalk: an average programmer can go and look everywhere in the system, without leaving Smalltalk, and understand what is going on (provided the code is OK). This is something that is very hard almost everywhere else (even in Common Lisp for example), let alone in C. Most scripting languages cover to little ground (using too many external libraries for example). Sven On 24 Aug 2010, at 20:14, laurent laffont wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >>> > >>> * A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand > > What about: > * Easy to understand, easy to learn from, easy to fix > > Indeed I woud like to spread the idea that little is needed to contribute, don't need to be an expert guru. Community counts. > > Laurent. > > > Not a system that more than one person understands? > > ;-) > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] first draft of a pharo zen

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 24, 2010, at 8:14 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >>> > >>> * A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand > > What about: > * Easy to understand, easy to learn from, easy to fix Yes learning is key for me. > Indeed I woud like to spread the idea that little is needed to contribute, don't need to be an expert guru. Community counts. Stef > > Laurent. > > > Not a system that more than one person understands? > > ;-) > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] first draft of a pharo zen

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 24, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Hernan Wilkinson wrote: > good! you liked the idea :-) Of course! BTW you did not send your photo :) > > I have a semantic problem with "Better small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one". I understand that objects are polimorphic, not clases. > I think we should say something about smalltalk meta-circular property and something about that everythings is an object... > For example: > > * We don't fear metaprogramming because it brings dinamism to live > * We love objects because objects are everything and everything is an object > > or something like that :-) I like the second. > > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:51 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Since some of you are newcomers to smalltalk or may be did not know the value of pharo core people > here is a first draft I wrote this morning thinking about pharo > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/PharoZen > > * Beauty in the code, beauty in the comments > * Simplicity is beautiful > * Communication is key > * Classes structure our vocabulary > * Messages are our vocabulary > * Polymorphism is our esperanto > * Better small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one > * Tests are important but can be replaced > * Abstraction and composition are our friends > * Explicit is better than implicit > * Magic only at the right place > * Simple processes to support progress > * One step at a time > * There is no unimportant fix > * Quality is a emerging property > * A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand > > Stef > Please comment also on the wiki. > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > > > -- > HernÃ¡n Wilkinson > Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching > Mobile: +54 - 11 - 4470 - 7207 > email: hernan.wilkinson(a)10Pines.com > site: http://www.10Pines.com > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] first draft of a pharo zen

by laurent laffont

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > >>> > >>> * A system with robust abstractions that a single person can > understand > What about: * Easy to understand, easy to learn from, easy to fix Indeed I woud like to spread the idea that little is needed to contribute, don't need to be an expert guru. Community counts. Laurent. > Not a system that more than one person understands? > > ;-) > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users >

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] first draft of a pharo zen

by Marcus Denker

>>> >>> * A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand Not a system that more than one person understands? ;-) -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] funny idea Symbol vs. Selector

by Igor Stasenko

On 24 August 2010 16:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > we often use symbols for identity keys. > Now I was just dreaming. > I had a long discussion with my friend, who was learning smalltalk, where we argued about 'selector is not a symbol'. The difference between a bare string and symbol is uniqueness. Literally, a symbol is just a string, which having additional, implied semantics, that same symbolic strings refer to a single, unique object. (Another minor one is immutability). The difference between a symbol and selector is less significant. A simple example. Suppose you have two different classes, one Symbol, other is Selector. Now, suppose that compiler creating an instance of Symbol each time it sees following: self foo. where 'foo' is selector (and instance of Selector). but now, lets put it in another way: self perform: #foo. A #foo is, obviously a symbol, and must be an instance of Symbol class, isnt? So, in #perform: you must somehow convert a symbol into selector and then find the implementation of method with given selector. This obviously kills an idea of having distinction between selectors and symbols, because implementation of #perform: will be awfully slow and awkward. >>> Hi guys >>> >>> I'm thinking aloud... >>> I was wondering if we could not take advantage of a new class: Selector. >>> MethodDict would only contain selectors and not symbols. >>> >>> I remember that I talked about that with hernan. >>> >> >> Hmm.. i don't see obvious advantages. Do you? >> Most symbols (90% of cases), used as selectors, so it is likely that >> such refactoring will be nothing more, >> but just renaming the class :) >> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-users mailing list >>> Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-users mailing list >> Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] first draft of a pharo zen

by Marcin Tustin

Technically, functions/methods are polymorphic ;) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Hernan Wilkinson < hernan.wilkinson(a)10pines.com> wrote: > good! you liked the idea :-) > > I have a semantic problem with "Better small polymorphic classes than a > large ugly one". I understand that objects are polimorphic, not clases. > I think we should say something about smalltalk meta-circular property and > something about that everythings is an object... > For example: > > * We don't fear metaprogramming because it brings dinamism to live > * We love objects because objects are everything and everything is an > object > > or something like that :-) > > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:51 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Since some of you are newcomers to smalltalk or may be did not know the >> value of pharo core people >> here is a first draft I wrote this morning thinking about pharo >> >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/PharoZen >> >> * Beauty in the code, beauty in the comments >> * Simplicity is beautiful >> * Communication is key >> * Classes structure our vocabulary >> * Messages are our vocabulary >> * Polymorphism is our esperanto >> * Better small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one >> * Tests are important but can be replaced >> * Abstraction and composition are our friends >> * Explicit is better than implicit >> * Magic only at the right place >> * Simple processes to support progress >> * One step at a time >> * There is no unimportant fix >> * Quality is a emerging property >> * A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand >> >> Stef >> Please comment also on the wiki. >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-users mailing list >> Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users >> > > > > -- > *HernÃ¡n Wilkinson > Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching > Mobile: +54 - 11 - 4470 - 7207 > email: hernan.wilkinson(a)10Pines.com > site: http://www.10Pines.com <http://www.10pines.com/>* > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > > -- Marcin Tustin Mobile: 07773787105 Office: 020 3400 3259

Aug. 24, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] first draft of a pharo zen

by Hernan Wilkinson

good! you liked the idea :-) I have a semantic problem with "Better small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one". I understand that objects are polimorphic, not clases. I think we should say something about smalltalk meta-circular property and something about that everythings is an object... For example: * We don't fear metaprogramming because it brings dinamism to live * We love objects because objects are everything and everything is an object or something like that :-) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:51 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Since some of you are newcomers to smalltalk or may be did not know the > value of pharo core people > here is a first draft I wrote this morning thinking about pharo > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/PharoZen > > * Beauty in the code, beauty in the comments > * Simplicity is beautiful > * Communication is key > * Classes structure our vocabulary > * Messages are our vocabulary > * Polymorphism is our esperanto > * Better small polymorphic classes than a large ugly one > * Tests are important but can be replaced > * Abstraction and composition are our friends > * Explicit is better than implicit > * Magic only at the right place > * Simple processes to support progress > * One step at a time > * There is no unimportant fix > * Quality is a emerging property > * A system with robust abstractions that a single person can understand > > Stef > Please comment also on the wiki. > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users > -- *HernÃ¡n Wilkinson Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching Mobile: +54 - 11 - 4470 - 7207 email: hernan.wilkinson(a)10Pines.com site: http://www.10Pines.com <http://www.10pines.com/>*

Aug. 24, 2010