December 2010 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Igor Stasenko

On 22 December 2010 00:24, Charles Monteiro <charles(a)nycsmalltalk.org> wrote: > > Igor: > > Let me preface that I pay my bills doing VisualWorks by day and we have > namespaces. > > Yeah, I'm not sold on them but several languages have them and so I wondered > what I was missing. In a way if you could use them to constraint the > instantiation of a nested class to only occur within a outer class it may > have some merit i.e. an arm can only exist in the context of a body etc, but > how value does it add ? From my perspective traits adds value and its worth > its cognitive overhead, not sold on nested classes. > me neither > > "you can just do: > Body Leg new. > > and in > Body>>#Leg > answer any class you want to play role as 'Leg'. > > Or you missing double colons in the middle? :) " > > I missed something here ? , in Ruby the syntax is: > > Body::Leg.new > sorry, i was imprecise. I meant to say 'do you miss the colons?'.. (sarcasm) :) > I guess you are saying that in Smalltalk I can just setup the accessors to > return whatever plays the role of a Leg but part of the point is that the > Leg class is defined within a Body class and I guess if you are looking a > source file in Ruby that might be helpful :) > > i.e. > > class Body > > Â Â class Leg > > Â Â Â Â def method1 > > Â Â Â Â end > > Â end > > end > > The fact that Ruby and other language developers are not used to browser > categories maybe makes this helpful in some way. > I don't think so. You can't create a class in smalltalk without assigning a category to it, so, a developer, who just started with smalltalk, are forced to use categories anyways. Yes, and the fact that nested classes systax like in Ruby or other languages are possible, because they using a 'source files' , which is single bloat of code. While in smalltalk, you usually operating with single method at one moment of time, and all browser operations and UI are optimized around that simple idea, so you don't need to scroll endless file with source code to find the method or nested class you are looking for at line #10974. > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3159885.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Charles Monteiro

Igor: Let me preface that I pay my bills doing VisualWorks by day and we have namespaces. Yeah, I'm not sold on them but several languages have them and so I wondered what I was missing. In a way if you could use them to constraint the instantiation of a nested class to only occur within a outer class it may have some merit i.e. an arm can only exist in the context of a body etc, but how value does it add ? From my perspective traits adds value and its worth its cognitive overhead, not sold on nested classes. "you can just do: Body Leg new. and in Body>>#Leg answer any class you want to play role as 'Leg'. Or you missing double colons in the middle? :) " I missed something here ? , in Ruby the syntax is: Body::Leg.new I guess you are saying that in Smalltalk I can just setup the accessors to return whatever plays the role of a Leg but part of the point is that the Leg class is defined within a Body class and I guess if you are looking a source file in Ruby that might be helpful :) i.e. class Body class Leg def method1 end end end The fact that Ruby and other language developers are not used to browser categories maybe makes this helpful in some way. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3159885.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] how to find all occurrances of a string in a package?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi - > > I'm trying to learn how to use the RBParseTreeSearcher. > > I'd like to find all the occurrances of the string 'tabs' in a package I've > written. > > That's something I would like to know also. What I always do is select the text (suppose 'tabs'), right click -> extended search -> method source with it the problem is that is seraches in all the image, not a particular package. So...having this, integrated in RB, and being able to select a scope would be awesome (maybe it is present already) ...update.... I have just check and there is something "literals matching" in RB....so maybe for literals at least it works. Maybe it would be nice to extend it so that it works like "method source with it". This functionality used to be too slow but with some optimizations from Levente now this is much faster. Is there something I can read to learn how to do that? > > Thanks > > Paul > >

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Stefan Marr

Automated personal recommendation: you like Smalltalk, you like nested classes: you will probably also like: Newspeak http://newspeaklanguage.org/ On 21 Dec 2010, at 06:32, Charles Monteiro wrote: > > Hi, perhaps a bit off topic, but I was wondering from those that brought > Traits to ST, what are their thoughts of the use of nested classes such as > used in Ruby and other languages. > > Good idea? If so should Smalltalk integrate these? Why? Why not ? > > thanks in advance > > -Charles > www.nycsmalltalk.org > -- > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3125667.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] minimal pharo image

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Annick. You should know also that there is a lot of work arround pharo for having smaller images than Pharo kernel. The project is known as Seed, and Nicolas (cc'ed) may have someting else to say. Here I paste some slides: here <http://www.box.net/shared/mts4falj0h> Video: Seed project: The challenge of creating a Smalltalk kernel<http://www.fast.org.ar/smalltalks2010?_s=9ysAkhU9bp6j6bdh&_k=C_MQUCkj&22> cheers mariano On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Pat Maddox <patmaddox(a)me.com> wrote: > On Dec 20, 2010, at 3:20 AM, Annick Fron wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am looking for a minimal pharo image. Does anyone know how much file > space I need for a minimal image with smalltalk servlets and http at least, > or even Seaside ? > > > > Annick Fron > > I don't know the answer to that. You can download the PharoCore image from > http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download and install the packages you need. > > Pat > >

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Igor Stasenko

On 21 December 2010 23:21, Charles Monteiro <charles(a)nycsmalltalk.org> wrote: > > the first I heard of traits was indeed I believe from a paper by Stef's group > if I recall correctly. So that's exactly what I mean. > > Nested classes are an organizational and a "structural" construct. > > A nested class is defined from within an outer class. They are used when a > class is only likely to be instantiated (used) from within another class. > For example (just an example) , when you instantiate aBody you would want to > instantiate two legs but two legs outside the context of a body may not make > sense. > > So that seems of some value. > Frankly, nested classes/namespaces is userful to limit the scope of names. >From organizational/structural point of view it not so valuable. Because there is enough ways in smalltalk how to organize your model nicely without using extra dimension(s), such as nested classes. > You can also used it to simply group classes i.e. an outer class Drawing, > may specify inner classes Line, Circle, Rectangle etc. To instantiate an > inner class you need special access syntax in Ruby you would do something > like this: > > aCircle = Drawing::Circle.new > > ok, that's alright if I'm using nested classes to group. > > but you can also do this: > > aLeg = Body::Leg.new > you can just do: Body Leg new. and in Body>>#Leg answer any class you want to play role as 'Leg'. Or you missing double colons in the middle? :) > but wait I thought you it only made sense to instantiate a Leg from within > the context of a body. > > Anyhow, I sort of have mixed feelings about it i.e. if they are worth the > extra overhead. Not to mention that Smalltalk's IDE's are not setup to > handle them. File based IDE's of course don't care, they just care about the > source representation. This 'nested classes' to me look like nested namespace(s), and nothing more. I'd rather introduce namespaces in smalltalk rather than nested classes. But while having a long background of languages which having namespaces, i could not say that i miss them in smalltalk too much. I can group classes using categories, and that is enough from human perception perspective. Limiting the visibility scope and playing all that 'public/private' games - this is an overengineering. My 2c -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 21, 2010

how to find all occurrances of a string in a package?

by Paul DeBruicker

Hi - I'm trying to learn how to use the RBParseTreeSearcher. I'd like to find all the occurrances of the string 'tabs' in a package I've written. Is there something I can read to learn how to do that? Thanks Paul

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Charles Monteiro

the first I heard of traits was indeed I believe from a paper by Stef's group if I recall correctly. So that's exactly what I mean. Nested classes are an organizational and a "structural" construct. A nested class is defined from within an outer class. They are used when a class is only likely to be instantiated (used) from within another class. For example (just an example) , when you instantiate aBody you would want to instantiate two legs but two legs outside the context of a body may not make sense. So that seems of some value. You can also used it to simply group classes i.e. an outer class Drawing, may specify inner classes Line, Circle, Rectangle etc. To instantiate an inner class you need special access syntax in Ruby you would do something like this: aCircle = Drawing::Circle.new ok, that's alright if I'm using nested classes to group. but you can also do this: aLeg = Body::Leg.new but wait I thought you it only made sense to instantiate a Leg from within the context of a body. Anyhow, I sort of have mixed feelings about it i.e. if they are worth the extra overhead. Not to mention that Smalltalk's IDE's are not setup to handle them. File based IDE's of course don't care, they just care about the source representation. -Charles www.nycsmalltalk.org -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3159802.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Charles Monteiro <charles(a)nycsmalltalk.org>wrote: > > Hi, perhaps a bit off topic, but I was wondering from those that brought > Traits to ST, just by ignorance.....weren't traits invented in smalltalk? > what are their thoughts of the use of nested classes such as > used in Ruby and other languages. > > what are "nested classes" in ruby? > Good idea? If so should Smalltalk integrate these? Why? Why not ? > > thanks in advance > > -Charles > www.nycsmalltalk.org > -- > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3125667.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] minimal pharo image

by Pat Maddox

On Dec 20, 2010, at 3:20 AM, Annick Fron wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for a minimal pharo image. Does anyone know how much file space I need for a minimal image with smalltalk servlets and http at least, or even Seaside ? > > Annick Fron I don't know the answer to that. You can download the PharoCore image from http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download and install the packages you need. Pat

Dec. 21, 2010