December 2010 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Native Windows in Pharo

by laurent laffont

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:41 PM, andres <andres(a)lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar>wrote: > Stef, Doru: > first of all I was *asking if* such a model exists, not > demanding one. Having just entered the Pharo world I wanted to know how you > guys handle the feature requests. I see now. > > On the other hand if you really want to discuss the question of "who has > the rights for asking for X" in the open source model I'm open, but just to > be sure I will first ask: Is it ok to open such a thread? Or should I first > contribute to Pharo before asking? > Asking is a form of contribution and is important because this is what creates a community and how we can learn. It enables communication and this is good. And your question is a valuable question. (well, unless people keep asking over and over the same question without searching in the mailing-list archive....) And actually the best answer I think is: if you want feature X, you have two ways to get it: A/ pay someone for doing it B/ do it yourself and share so other people may help you Today in Pharo the most used way is B (and I think this is true for most open source project). But may be you have (lot of) money :) So if you think something like UserVoice may sounds good, just try it and share. Darwinism will tell whether it is a good idea or not. Honestly I'm curious about what ideas can people put in a voting system and what they can vote on. Maybe newcomers won't be shy to vote (comparing to sending an email). Now whether the ideas will be implemented is just a matter of choice between A and B. Cheers, Laurent > AndrÃ©s > > Tudor Girba escribiÃ³: > > +1. >> >> Doru >> >> >> On 7 Dec 2010, at 12:39, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> Hi andres >>> >>>> Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's >>>> vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most >>>> voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature >>>> complexity). >>>> >>> Well well well >>> When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got >>> 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that >>> we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no? >>> >>> We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) >>> are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be >>> influenced >>> but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is >>> ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST >>> code. >>> >>> So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should >>> consider how you can make this happens. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" >> >> >> >> >

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Native Windows in Pharo

by andres

Stef, Doru: first of all I was *asking if* such a model exists, not demanding one. Having just entered the Pharo world I wanted to know how you guys handle the feature requests. I see now. On the other hand if you really want to discuss the question of "who has the rights for asking for X" in the open source model I'm open, but just to be sure I will first ask: Is it ok to open such a thread? Or should I first contribute to Pharo before asking? AndrÃ©s Tudor Girba escribiÃ³: > +1. > > Doru > > > On 7 Dec 2010, at 12:39, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi andres >> >>> Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity). >> Well well well >> When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no? >> >> We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced >> but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code. >> >> So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens. >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" > > >

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Native Windows in Pharo

by andres

Thanks Sean! Sean P. DeNigris escribiÃ³: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Wishlist-was-Native-Windows-in-Pharo-td3075089.…

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Native Windows in Pharo

by Tudor Girba

+1. Doru On 7 Dec 2010, at 12:39, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi andres > >> Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity). > > Well well well > When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no? > > We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced > but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code. > > So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens. > > > Stef > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Native Windows in Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi andres > Thanks Mariano! I was looking for something more "formal", to let user's vote for features and a commitment of the dev team to include N of the most voted per release (of course N depends on the release cycle and the feature complexity). Well well well When people are not able to pay 10 Euros for pharo (we did a poll and got 5 positive answers) why would they have the right to vote for something that we would be forced to do? This is an interesting question, no? We are not in the consumer model here. We (the people around pharo core) are fixing the infrastructure so that everybody benefit from it, we can be influenced but not much. The only influence we deeply understand is ***Contributions*** with either videos, pdf, ads, promotion actions or ST code. So if you want something to happen for real in pharo then you should consider how you can make this happens. Stef

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-project] Pharocasts: access SQLite databases through ODBC

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Excellent! On Dec 5, 2010, at 10:25 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > See how to setup and access an SQLite database through ODBC on Windows. > > Recorded by Torsten Bergmann. > > Enjoy: http://www.pharocasts.com/2010/12/access-database-through-odbc.html > > > > Laurent Laffont > > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi HernÃ¡n, On 06 Dec 2010, at 20:54, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > It seems my performance problem involves reading and parsing a "CSV" file > > Elements Matrix DhbMatrix > 53400 18274 17329 > 175960 61043 60722 > 710500 379276 385278 > > I will check if it's worth to implement a primitive for very fast parsing of CSV files. I think that instead of going native, it would be worthwhile to try to optimize in Smalltalk first (it certainly is more fun). I thought that this was an interesting problem so I tried writing some code myself, assuming the main problem is getting a CSV matrix in and out of Smalltalk as fast as possible. I simplified further by making the matrix square and containing only Numbers. I also preallocate the matrix and use the fact that I know the row/column sizes. These are my results: Size Elements Read Write 250 62500 1013 7858 500 250000 4185 31007 750 562500 9858 71434 I think this is faster, but it is hard to compare. I am still a bit puzzled as to why the writing is slower than the reading though. The code is available at http://www.squeaksource.com/ADayAtTheBeach.html in the package 'Smalltalk-Hacking-Sven', class NumberMatrix. This is the write loop: writeCsvTo: stream 1 to: size do: [ :row | 1 to: size do: [ :column | column ~= 1 ifTrue: [ stream nextPut: $, ]. stream print: (self at: row at: column) ]. stream nextPut: Character lf ] And this is the read loop: readCsvFrom: stream | numberParser | numberParser := SqNumberParser on: stream. 1 to: size do: [ :row | 1 to: size do: [ :column | self at: row at: column put: numberParser nextNumber. column ~= size ifTrue: [ stream peekFor: $, ] ]. row ~= size ifTrue: [ stream peekFor: Character lf ] ] I am of course cheating a little bit, but should your CSV file be different, I am sure you can adapt the code (for example to deal with quoting). I am also advancing the stream under the SqNumberParser to avoid allocation a new one every time. I think this code generates little garbage. What do you think ? Sven

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 8:54 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Benoit, > > I've loaded the package but it seems the port is not complete, i.e. if > you evaluate: > > DhbMatrix new: 10 > > you will get a MessageNotUnderstood: Interval>>asVector because > extension methods were not ported. I uploaded to the SqueakSource a > new version including extension methods and now most tests pass. > > Concerning the performance issues, I've narrowed my code to only > measure the writing and reading of a matrix of 710500 elements, > resulting in 58239 milliseconds for the native Matrix implementation > and 56920 for DhbMatrix. > It seems my performance problem involves reading and parsing a "CSV" file > > which file stream are you using ? do you need encoding? You can use the Alexandre Profiler to detect where the problem is. Cheers Mariano > Elements Matrix DhbMatrix > 53400 18274 17329 > 175960 61043 60722 > 710500 379276 385278 > > I will check if it's worth to implement a primitive for very fast > parsing of CSV files. > Cheers, > > 2010/12/5 Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)hotmail.ca>: > > Have you tried the matrix implementation in the numerical package from > > Didier H. Besset? > > > > http://squeaksource.com/@Q45T_l348Ag07gGT/VMsGzidC > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- > > Benoit St-Jean > > A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. > > (Albert Einstein) > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 17:33:17 -0300 > >> From: hernan.morales(a)gmail.com > >> To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> Subject: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation? > >> > >> Hi list > >> > >> In the context of a scientific project here we are building big > >> matrices for later processing, mostly exporting to custom file formats > >> for PLINK, HaploView, etc (bioinformatics tools). I've tested one of > >> our scripts in both Pharo 1.1 (not CogVM) with the corresponding > >> Python 2.6 implementation (without PyPy), and the performance in > >> Python was superior, about 8x faster than ST. > >> So I wonder if anyone knows the fastest (or a faster) implementation > >> of Matrix than the included by default in Collections? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > > -- > HernÃ¡n Morales > Information Technology Manager, > Institute of Veterinary Genetics. > National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). > La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. > Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. > Internal: 422 > Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799. > >

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation?

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

I cannot send the CSV files because they are private data currently being used for research, just to give a hint I'm parsing files from 800,000 to 19 millions of lines. I'm using http://www.squeaksource.com/SimpleTextParser.html which is based in http://www.squeaksource.com/CSV.html plus some useful additions (for me). 2010/12/7 Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)hotmail.ca>: > What are you using to read those CSV files?Â Do you have a file so we can > have a look at it and possibly speed up the reading of the CSV file? > > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. > (Albert Einstein) > > > > >> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 16:54:37 -0300 >> From: hernan.morales(a)gmail.com >> To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation? >> >> Hi Benoit, >> >> I've loaded the package but it seems the port is not complete, i.e. if >> you evaluate: >> >> DhbMatrix new: 10 >> >> you will get a MessageNotUnderstood: Interval>>asVector because >> extension methods were not ported. I uploaded to the SqueakSource a >> new version including extension methods and now most tests pass. >> >> Concerning the performance issues, I've narrowed my code to only >> measure the writing and reading of a matrix of 710500 elements, >> resulting in 58239 milliseconds for the native Matrix implementation >> and 56920 for DhbMatrix. >> It seems my performance problem involves reading and parsing a "CSV" file >> >> Elements Matrix DhbMatrix >> 53400 18274 17329 >> 175960 61043 60722 >> 710500 379276 385278 >> >> I will check if it's worth to implement a primitive for very fast >> parsing of CSV files. >> Cheers, >> >> 2010/12/5 Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)hotmail.ca>: >> > Have you tried the matrix implementation in the numerical package from >> > Didier H. Besset? >> > >> > http://squeaksource.com/@Q45T_l348Ag07gGT/VMsGzidC >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----------------- >> > Benoit St-Jean >> > A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. >> > (Albert Einstein) >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 17:33:17 -0300 >> >> From: hernan.morales(a)gmail.com >> >> To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> >> Subject: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation? >> >> >> >> Hi list >> >> >> >> In the context of a scientific project here we are building big >> >> matrices for later processing, mostly exporting to custom file formats >> >> for PLINK, HaploView, etc (bioinformatics tools). I've tested one of >> >> our scripts in both Pharo 1.1 (not CogVM) with the corresponding >> >> Python 2.6 implementation (without PyPy), and the performance in >> >> Python was superior, about 8x faster than ST. >> >> So I wonder if anyone knows the fastest (or a faster) implementation >> >> of Matrix than the included by default in Collections? >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> -- >> HernÃ¡n Morales >> Information Technology Manager, >> Institute of Veterinary Genetics. >> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). >> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. >> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. >> Internal: 422 >> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799. >> > -- HernÃ¡n Morales Information Technology Manager, Institute of Veterinary Genetics. National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. Internal: 422 Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.

Dec. 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation?

by Benoit St-Jean

What are you using to read those CSV files? Do you have a file so we can have a look at it and possibly speed up the reading of the CSV file? ----------------- Benoit St-Jean A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein) > Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 16:54:37 -0300 > From: hernan.morales(a)gmail.com > To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation? > > Hi Benoit, > > I've loaded the package but it seems the port is not complete, i.e. if > you evaluate: > > DhbMatrix new: 10 > > you will get a MessageNotUnderstood: Interval>>asVector because > extension methods were not ported. I uploaded to the SqueakSource a > new version including extension methods and now most tests pass. > > Concerning the performance issues, I've narrowed my code to only > measure the writing and reading of a matrix of 710500 elements, > resulting in 58239 milliseconds for the native Matrix implementation > and 56920 for DhbMatrix. > It seems my performance problem involves reading and parsing a "CSV" file > > Elements Matrix DhbMatrix > 53400 18274 17329 > 175960 61043 60722 > 710500 379276 385278 > > I will check if it's worth to implement a primitive for very fast > parsing of CSV files. > Cheers, > > 2010/12/5 Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)hotmail.ca>: > > Have you tried the matrix implementation in the numerical package from > > Didier H. Besset? > > > > http://squeaksource.com/@Q45T_l348Ag07gGT/VMsGzidC > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- > > Benoit St-Jean > > A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. > > (Albert Einstein) > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 17:33:17 -0300 > >> From: hernan.morales(a)gmail.com > >> To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> Subject: [Pharo-users] Fastest matrix implementation? > >> > >> Hi list > >> > >> In the context of a scientific project here we are building big > >> matrices for later processing, mostly exporting to custom file formats > >> for PLINK, HaploView, etc (bioinformatics tools). I've tested one of > >> our scripts in both Pharo 1.1 (not CogVM) with the corresponding > >> Python 2.6 implementation (without PyPy), and the performance in > >> Python was superior, about 8x faster than ST. > >> So I wonder if anyone knows the fastest (or a faster) implementation > >> of Matrix than the included by default in Collections? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > > -- > HernÃ¡n Morales > Information Technology Manager, > Institute of Veterinary Genetics. > National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). > La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. > Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. > Internal: 422 > Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799. >

Dec. 7, 2010