[Pharo-project] For those who use Nabble ....
I managed (with some assistance from Nabble support) to group several Smalltalk mailing lists on Nabble under the common category "Smalltalk" (http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.html). To get them all to appear together the Pharo forums had to move Pharo to the a common n4 server or something, so the links to the Pharo-Smalltalk and Pharo-Smalltalk-Users forums need to be updated on the Pharo website (although the old links will still work for some time) to: Pharo-Smalltalk: http://n4.nabble.com/Pharo-Smalltalk-f1294837.html Pharo-Smalltalk-Users: http://n4.nabble.com/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1310998.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Geert: Thanks! Sorry for being a little OT. I don't know very much about Gmane, nabble, etc. I just configured it only once for the squeakdbx mailing list. But in certain mailing list, I saw that at the end of a mail (thread) you have automatically put the link to Gmane/Nabble. And this is really cool. A lot for times, I want to put the link of a thread in the bug tracker and I have to go Nabble, search it there, etc....if I have it in the mail, is much simpler. Do you know if we can do this for pharo mailing lists ? Cheers Mariano On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Geert Claes <geert.wl.claes@gmail.com>wrote:
I managed (with some assistance from Nabble support) to group several Smalltalk mailing lists on Nabble under the common category "Smalltalk" (http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.html).
To get them all to appear together the Pharo forums had to move Pharo to the a common n4 server or something, so the links to the Pharo-Smalltalk and Pharo-Smalltalk-Users forums need to be updated on the Pharo website (although the old links will still work for some time) to: Pharo-Smalltalk: http://n4.nabble.com/Pharo-Smalltalk-f1294837.html Pharo-Smalltalk-Users: http://n4.nabble.com/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1310998.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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As far as I know Nabble adds this "View this message in context" bit automatically when posted from Nabble. -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311012.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Geert Claes <geert.wl.claes@gmail.com>wrote:
As far as I know Nabble adds this "View this message in context" bit automatically when posted from Nabble.
Ok....I have just saw if with your email...but is it possible also if I post from email instead from Nabble ?
-- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311012.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Ok....I have just saw if with your email...but is it possible also if I post from email instead from Nabble ?
Hi Mariano, if you post to the mailing list via email Nabble, will only grab it and add it to the archive so it won't add that bit I believe. -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311036.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
That's really neat Geert. Nice to view Smalltalk as one community: http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.topics.html ...Stan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311037.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Stan Shepherd <stan.shepherd414@gmail.com>wrote:
That's really neat Geert. Nice to view Smalltalk as one community: http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.topics.html ...Stan
Really cool ! Is it possible to add this link on the pharo website ? Larent
Thanks, Geert! I updated the web page. I added the general Nabble Smalltalk link in the FAQ. Cheers, Adrian On Jan 27, 2010, at 07:54 , laurent laffont wrote:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Stan Shepherd <stan.shepherd414@gmail.com>wrote:
That's really neat Geert. Nice to view Smalltalk as one community: http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.topics.html ...Stan
Really cool ! Is it possible to add this link on the pharo website ?
Larent _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Geert, would it be possible to update the description of Pharo that currently reads "Pharo is a fork from the Squeak open-source Smalltalk."? I suggest: "Pharo's goal is to deliver a clean, innovative, free open-source Smalltalk environment. By providing a stable and small core system, excellent developer tools, and maintained releases, Pharo is an attractive platform to build and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications. Pharo is MIT licensed and fosters a healthy ecosystem of both private and commercial contributors." Thanks, Adrian On Jan 27, 2010, at 08:44 , Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Thanks, Geert!
I updated the web page.
I added the general Nabble Smalltalk link in the FAQ.
Cheers, Adrian
On Jan 27, 2010, at 07:54 , laurent laffont wrote:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Stan Shepherd <stan.shepherd414@gmail.com>wrote:
That's really neat Geert. Nice to view Smalltalk as one community: http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.topics.html ...Stan
Really cool ! Is it possible to add this link on the pharo website ?
Larent _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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+1 We are more than a fork! Stef On Jan 27, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Geert, would it be possible to update the description of Pharo that currently reads "Pharo is a fork from the Squeak open-source Smalltalk."?
I suggest: "Pharo's goal is to deliver a clean, innovative, free open-source Smalltalk environment. By providing a stable and small core system, excellent developer tools, and maintained releases, Pharo is an attractive platform to build and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications. Pharo is MIT licensed and fosters a healthy ecosystem of both private and commercial contributors."
Thanks, Adrian
On Jan 27, 2010, at 08:44 , Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Thanks, Geert!
I updated the web page.
I added the general Nabble Smalltalk link in the FAQ.
Cheers, Adrian
On Jan 27, 2010, at 07:54 , laurent laffont wrote:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Stan Shepherd <stan.shepherd414@gmail.com>wrote:
That's really neat Geert. Nice to view Smalltalk as one community: http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.topics.html ...Stan
Really cool ! Is it possible to add this link on the pharo website ?
Larent _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
I thought you were going to be Pharo clean for one or two weeks? :) -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311367.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jan 27, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Geert Claes wrote:
I thought you were going to be Pharo clean for one or two weeks? :)
heu I'm not stef I'm his son ... my dad is working... I'm just browsing his mail and heu :) Stef
-- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311367.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Geert, would it be possible to update the description of Pharo that currently reads "Pharo is a fork from the Squeak open-source Smalltalk."?
I suggest: "Pharo's goal is to deliver a clean, innovative, free open-source Smalltalk environment. By providing a stable and small core system, excellent developer tools, and maintained releases, Pharo is an attractive platform to build and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications. Pharo is MIT licensed and fosters a healthy ecosystem of both private and commercial contributors."
Sure, but how about a brief "one sentence" description rather than the complete mission statement? Just added some logo's: http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.html http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.html -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311364.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
sure, here is one sentence: "Pharo provides a clean and innovative MIT-licensed Smalltalk environment with a stable and small core system, excellent developer tools, and maintained releases." Adrian On Jan 27, 2010, at 10:05 , Geert Claes wrote:
Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Geert, would it be possible to update the description of Pharo that currently reads "Pharo is a fork from the Squeak open-source Smalltalk."?
I suggest: "Pharo's goal is to deliver a clean, innovative, free open-source Smalltalk environment. By providing a stable and small core system, excellent developer tools, and maintained releases, Pharo is an attractive platform to build and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications. Pharo is MIT licensed and fosters a healthy ecosystem of both private and commercial contributors."
Sure, but how about a brief "one sentence" description rather than the complete mission statement?
Just added some logo's: http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.html http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.html -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311364.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Thats almost the same as what I came up with: "Pharo is an open-source Smalltalk implementation providing a stable and small core system with excellent developer tools to build and deploy mission critical applications." -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311650.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I like yours as well! Cheers, Adrian On Jan 27, 2010, at 15:20 , Geert Claes wrote:
Thats almost the same as what I came up with: "Pharo is an open-source Smalltalk implementation providing a stable and small core system with excellent developer tools to build and deploy mission critical applications." -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311650.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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"Adrian" == Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> writes:
Adrian> "Pharo provides a clean and innovative MIT-licensed Smalltalk Adrian> environment with a stable and small core system, excellent developer Adrian> tools, and maintained releases." Which, at this point, would not distinguish it from what Squeak core will be within another few weeks. Do you have any verbage that would allow newcomers to choose Squeak vs Pharo? Or are the goals and purpose finally merging again? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
Hi randall Squeak can copy pharo' goals. There is no problem. We have always been clear - in fact since the Squeak world tour.... back in 1998 - I was a big fan of John Sarkela, Paul and Joseph ideas. We started Kernel Cleaning Project in Squeak 3.5. You know removing all the Smalltalk at: everywhere. Cleaning browser and SystemDictionary (full of crap). We wanted a clean and lean "smalltalk" that people can learn from and invent new worlds and make business. I'm not sure that you know that but: We created (yes we goran, marcus, mike and me) the SqueakFoundation just to make sure that Squeak could move on. We wanted a Doitocracy. And we left the foundation when it became clear that we were losing our time. If you think about it we only forked once: some other people forked multiple times and I'm sure that you can access by yourself the state of their communities. We want to have fun and trust in Pharo! I thank all the submissions and I try to learn from them every day. We feel responsible for the system. We burned our soul with 3.9 trying to maintain Squeak and we got bashed because we wanted to change and clean. Now the exact same people are doing what we are doing since May 2008. Perfect! This is that we are right :) Thanks to recognize we were and are right! Now consider that Pharo is just at its enfancy. Let's see in 5 years what we will have. We have the luxury to be able to work on it during the next 10 years and we will. Sometimes I'm pestering that I would like to go way faster but we were the first one to run a release (3.9) with MC, I was one of the first to push SUnit - I wrote one chapter so that people do not get afraid, push refactorings - some famous squeaker ask me why I was pushing refactoring and it was in 1998 SmallLint (check my old columns and french book). So quality is not something trendy for us. We believe in it! We are building a school of thought: look at Lukas, Adrian, Marcus.... code quality and attitude. We are working on a new pharo book with truly excellent contents - Stay tuned - This is fun that I'm the author that wrote the most Squeak books finally (not counting our new cool seaside one). So I will have to beat my own record with pharo books. :) Our goal is to make sure people can get a clean and lean infrastructure and to have more advanced features than Smalltalk. Now we will not have Etoy/Nebraska/tiles/Projects/. Note even reloadable not because we do not like etoy but the current implementation of etoys does not make it possible. Stef PS: I know that some people always like to shine and cannot miss any opportunity to call us Etoy Haters, or Commercial Smalltalkers We can be bashed about SmalltalkImage current too. Our vision is the one described by eliot on minimal image and remote access. We never changed our vision. We left to make it real after all the investment we did: video, books, community. Did you ever realize that we lost a lot but win more? PSPS: Google is working on traits for JavaScript (probably in the next standard), Perl have them too, Fortress is exclusively based on them, Ruby people are looking at classboxes.... so this is nice to see that other communitees recognize that we are generated good ideas.
"Adrian" == Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> writes:
Adrian> "Pharo provides a clean and innovative MIT-licensed Smalltalk Adrian> environment with a stable and small core system, excellent developer Adrian> tools, and maintained releases."
Which, at this point, would not distinguish it from what Squeak core will be within another few weeks.
Do you have any verbage that would allow newcomers to choose Squeak vs Pharo?
Or are the goals and purpose finally merging again?
-- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
I think, if you really want to compare, you should look closer than what the two slogans say. Just one example: bugs.squeak.org currently has 2315 open issues... Cheers, Adrian On Jan 27, 2010, at 17:39 , Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
"Adrian" == Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> writes:
Adrian> "Pharo provides a clean and innovative MIT-licensed Smalltalk Adrian> environment with a stable and small core system, excellent developer Adrian> tools, and maintained releases."
Which, at this point, would not distinguish it from what Squeak core will be within another few weeks.
Do you have any verbage that would allow newcomers to choose Squeak vs Pharo?
Or are the goals and purpose finally merging again?
-- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
On Jan 27, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
I think, if you really want to compare, you should look closer than what the two slogans say. Just one example: bugs.squeak.org currently has 2315 open issues...
while we have 300 open issues and 1581 closed ones. The first report was submitted Jun 05, 2008. 1581 / (Date today - 'June 05, 2008' asDate) days asFloat --> 2.63 bug reports closed *per day*. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
I think, if you really want to compare, you should look closer than what the two slogans say. Just one example: bugs.squeak.org currently has 2315 open issues...
Does that number apply for the current squeak developement? Or did you just look at the number on the "view_all_bug_page" with no filter applied (which counts all the issues of other forks, external packages, non-developement related tasks, old branches, etc.) and thought: hey here's a big number, this will show how professional we are compared to squeak? Levente
Cheers, Adrian
On Jan 27, 2010, at 17:39 , Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
"Adrian" == Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> writes:
Adrian> "Pharo provides a clean and innovative MIT-licensed Smalltalk Adrian> environment with a stable and small core system, excellent developer Adrian> tools, and maintained releases."
Which, at this point, would not distinguish it from what Squeak core will be within another few weeks.
Do you have any verbage that would allow newcomers to choose Squeak vs Pharo?
Or are the goals and purpose finally merging again?
-- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
I do not want a war or competition. This is not positive thinking. We have enough to do and I want fun. I think that we have the history for us so let us reinvent the future. The competitors are ruby, lua, python, groovy and many more. We can learn a lot from them. Squeak situation forced us to do pharo so let us advantage of that. Stef
Geert, indeed thanks a lot for this Smalltalk unification efford :) We need it! Best regards Janko On 26. 01. 2010 23:03, Geert Claes wrote:
I managed (with some assistance from Nabble support) to group several Smalltalk mailing lists on Nabble under the common category "Smalltalk" (http://n4.nabble.com/Smalltalk-f1294792.html).
-- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Geert, do you think it would be useful to post this on the other Smalltalk lists as well? Another benefit it that you can now search for answers across the dialects, e.g. http://n4.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?days=0&query=merge+fork&sort=date&foru... http://n4.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?days=0&query=merge+fork&sort=date&foru... ...Stan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1311659.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Thanks, I posted a brief message on the GNU and Squeak (beginners) mailing lists. Acting upon Janko's great suggestion I also asked Nabble support to help me get the mailing lists of VisualWorks and Swazoo moved here too -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1370742.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Nice one. Is it possible to get Metacello in the mix as well? ...Stan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1392340.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Geert, is there a separate ESUG list that is not under your Smalltalk Nabble umbrella yet? The Google SOC thing got very confusing very quickly; depending on who is subscribed to which list, you may or may not see bits of a thread. (less of an issue if you're viewing on Nabble). Do we need an overall Smalltalk list to be used in cases like this? ...Stan -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/For-those-who-use-Nabble-tp1310998p1589003.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Stan, To my knowledge there is no ESUG list yet but I have to say that I was just wondering the same thing since Janko and Mariano now have to cross-post to communicate any GSoC messages for those not using Nabble. Maybe ESUG can create a Google Group so I can add it to Nabble too? Cheers, Geert ps. I have contacted Nabble support to see if we can add the usenets comp.lang.smalltalk, ibm.software.vasmalltalk and comp.lang.smalltalk.dolphin to Nabble. On 11 March 2010 15:10, Stan Shepherd [via Smalltalk] < ml-node+1589003-1811128994-4908@n4.nabble.com<ml-node%2B1589003-1811128994-4908@n4.nabble.com>
wrote:
Hi Geert, is there a separate ESUG list that is not under your Smalltalk Nabble umbrella yet?
The Google SOC thing got very confusing very quickly; depending on who is subscribed to which list, you may or may not see bits of a thread. (less of an issue if you're viewing on Nabble). Do we need an overall Smalltalk list to be used in cases like this?
...Stan
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participants (11)
-
Adrian Lienhard -
Geert Claes -
Janko Mivšek -
laurent laffont -
Levente Uzonyi -
Marcus Denker -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
merlyn＠stonehenge.com -
Peter Hugosson-Miller -
Stan Shepherd -
Stéphane Ducasse