Hi randall Squeak can copy pharo' goals. There is no problem. We have always been clear - in fact since the Squeak world tour.... back in 1998 - I was a big fan of John Sarkela, Paul and Joseph ideas. We started Kernel Cleaning Project in Squeak 3.5. You know removing all the Smalltalk at: everywhere. Cleaning browser and SystemDictionary (full of crap). We wanted a clean and lean "smalltalk" that people can learn from and invent new worlds and make business. I'm not sure that you know that but: We created (yes we goran, marcus, mike and me) the SqueakFoundation just to make sure that Squeak could move on. We wanted a Doitocracy. And we left the foundation when it became clear that we were losing our time. If you think about it we only forked once: some other people forked multiple times and I'm sure that you can access by yourself the state of their communities. We want to have fun and trust in Pharo! I thank all the submissions and I try to learn from them every day. We feel responsible for the system. We burned our soul with 3.9 trying to maintain Squeak and we got bashed because we wanted to change and clean. Now the exact same people are doing what we are doing since May 2008. Perfect! This is that we are right :) Thanks to recognize we were and are right! Now consider that Pharo is just at its enfancy. Let's see in 5 years what we will have. We have the luxury to be able to work on it during the next 10 years and we will. Sometimes I'm pestering that I would like to go way faster but we were the first one to run a release (3.9) with MC, I was one of the first to push SUnit - I wrote one chapter so that people do not get afraid, push refactorings - some famous squeaker ask me why I was pushing refactoring and it was in 1998 SmallLint (check my old columns and french book). So quality is not something trendy for us. We believe in it! We are building a school of thought: look at Lukas, Adrian, Marcus.... code quality and attitude. We are working on a new pharo book with truly excellent contents - Stay tuned - This is fun that I'm the author that wrote the most Squeak books finally (not counting our new cool seaside one). So I will have to beat my own record with pharo books. :) Our goal is to make sure people can get a clean and lean infrastructure and to have more advanced features than Smalltalk. Now we will not have Etoy/Nebraska/tiles/Projects/. Note even reloadable not because we do not like etoy but the current implementation of etoys does not make it possible. Stef PS: I know that some people always like to shine and cannot miss any opportunity to call us Etoy Haters, or Commercial Smalltalkers We can be bashed about SmalltalkImage current too. Our vision is the one described by eliot on minimal image and remote access. We never changed our vision. We left to make it real after all the investment we did: video, books, community. Did you ever realize that we lost a lot but win more? PSPS: Google is working on traits for JavaScript (probably in the next standard), Perl have them too, Fortress is exclusively based on them, Ruby people are looking at classboxes.... so this is nice to see that other communitees recognize that we are generated good ideas.
"Adrian" == Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> writes:
Adrian> "Pharo provides a clean and innovative MIT-licensed Smalltalk Adrian> environment with a stable and small core system, excellent developer Adrian> tools, and maintained releases."
Which, at this point, would not distinguish it from what Squeak core will be within another few weeks.
Do you have any verbage that would allow newcomers to choose Squeak vs Pharo?
Or are the goals and purpose finally merging again?
-- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
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