Hi! A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here... Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Hi, Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi... Cheers :) 2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Jannik the phratch proyect provides access to GPIO port? ffi to achieve such access is available? any ideas? thanks in advance best jmdc On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Hi Juan, I don't know. I did not have enough time to try that. We should try, and see :) Jannik 2014-05-20 16:23 GMT+02:00 Juan <smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com>:
Jannik
the phratch proyect provides access to GPIO port? ffi to achieve such access is available? any ideas? thanks in advance best
jmdc
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Hi Jannick, I want to know about that too :) Thierry Le 20/05/2014 16:30, jannik laval a écrit :
Hi Juan,
I don't know. I did not have enough time to try that. We should try, and see :)
Jannik
2014-05-20 16:23 GMT+02:00 Juan <smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com <mailto:smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com>>:
Jannik
the phratch proyect provides access to GPIO port? ffi to achieve such access is available? any ideas? thanks in advance best
jmdc
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com <mailto:jannik.laval@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com <mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
Do you have a snippet code to try it in Pharo ? Jannik 2014-05-20 16:34 GMT+02:00 Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier@cea.fr>:
Hi Jannick,
I want to know about that too :)
Thierry
Le 20/05/2014 16:30, jannik laval a écrit :
Hi Juan,
I don't know. I did not have enough time to try that. We should try, and see :)
Jannik
2014-05-20 16:23 GMT+02:00 Juan <smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com <mailto:smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com>>:
Jannik
the phratch proyect provides access to GPIO port? ffi to achieve such access is available? any ideas? thanks in advance best
jmdc
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com <mailto:jannik.laval@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/ Phratch-OneClick-RPi/
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com <mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
2014-05-20 16:23 GMT+02:00 Juan <smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com>:
Jannik
the phratch proyect provides access to GPIO port? ffi to achieve such access is available? any ideas?
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago. So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
thanks in advance best
jmdc
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Clement I think, ffi can enable access to GPIO via a plugin, slope is then the job of making this plugin right? best jmdc On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com>wrote:
2014-05-20 16:23 GMT+02:00 Juan <smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com>:
Jannik
the phratch proyect provides access to GPIO port? ffi to achieve such access is available? any ideas?
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
thanks in advance best
jmdc
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Ah okay, this is an answer that I understand :-) We are not really good at promoting what we are doing. For the the case of Rasbian, it seems not that difficult to have Phratch and Pharo installed per default, if there is Scratch and Squeak. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On May 20, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago. Wait a second. Nope.
FFI, have been implemented and integrated on CogVM repository by Doug since 3 week, yes, not in Pharo repository. There are small differences between CogVM and PharoVM. A simple operation of extraction, installation, test , merge with the stable pharoS-vm rasp. So 3 week ago I extracted the code of Doug from the CogVM repository, I install it on my own jenkins. But nothing is integrated yet, except in my repository. Where also the OSProcess is currently tested. But no it is not in the latest pharos on raspberry. On 20 May 2014, at 17:43, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Ah okay, this is an answer that I understand :-)
We are not really good at promoting what we are doing. For the the case of Rasbian, it seems not that difficult to have Phratch and Pharo installed per default, if there is Scratch and Squeak.
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
Best Regards Jean Baptiste Arnaud jbaptiste.arnaud@gmail.com
Thank you JB for the answer. I am waiting for the integration :) Jannik 2014-05-20 18:41 GMT+02:00 Jean Baptiste Arnaud <jbaptiste.arnaud@gmail.com> :
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
Wait a second. Nope.
FFI, have been implemented and integrated on CogVM repository by Doug since 3 week, yes, not in Pharo repository. There are small differences between CogVM and PharoVM. A simple operation of extraction, installation, test , merge with the stable pharoS-vm rasp.
So 3 week ago I extracted the code of Doug from the CogVM repository, I install it on my own jenkins. But nothing is integrated yet, except in my repository. Where also the OSProcess is currently tested.
But no it is not in the latest pharos on raspberry.
On 20 May 2014, at 17:43, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Ah okay, this is an answer that I understand :-)
We are not really good at promoting what we are doing. For the the case of Rasbian, it seems not that difficult to have Phratch and Pharo installed per default, if there is Scratch and Squeak.
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
Best Regards Jean Baptiste Arnaud jbaptiste.arnaud@gmail.com
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
The point is that I am not so involved in the dev for raspbian. I do not tested sound and camera. Probably they should be recompiled for RPi. FileSystem is not stable because it depends on NativeBoost, not implemented for RPi for now. I added a fix for that, but it is not what I really want. So, before proposing it, we need to make it more stable, and cleaner. Cheers, Jannik 2014-05-20 17:43 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:
Ah okay, this is an answer that I understand :-)
We are not really good at promoting what we are doing. For the the case of Rasbian, it seems not that difficult to have Phratch and Pharo installed per default, if there is Scratch and Squeak.
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
So, before proposing it, we need to make it more stable, and cleaner.
Sure! I am just suspecting there is a great opportunity for a larger adoption of our tools Alexandre
Cheers, Jannik
2014-05-20 17:43 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Ah okay, this is an answer that I understand :-)
We are not really good at promoting what we are doing. For the the case of Rasbian, it seems not that difficult to have Phratch and Pharo installed per default, if there is Scratch and Squeak.
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
2014-05-20 17:06 GMT+02:00 Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com>:
2014-05-20 16:23 GMT+02:00 Juan <smalltalker.marcelo@gmail.com>:
Jannik
the phratch proyect provides access to GPIO port? ffi to achieve such access is available? any ideas?
FFI for the raspberry pie was finished for the Pharo vm 3 weeks ago.
Sorry as JB pointed me out, the FFI for the Raspberry Pie is working, but is not integrated into the Pharo VM yet.
So I guess the Phratch team has not found the time yet to do that, but it should be possible.
thanks in advance best
jmdc
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>:
Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
--
~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Hi! My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
One reason might be that Phratch is kind of redundant isn't it? Smalltalk already has a foothold on the Pi in the form of Squeak, and Tim Rowledge is being paid by that organization right now to improve Scratch. So if you're interested in helping kids learn programming with Scratch, why not check with Tim see if you can find a way help with what he's doing..? On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian?
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
Hi Chris 2014-05-21 18:11 GMT+02:00 Chris Muller <asqueaker@gmail.com>:
One reason might be that Phratch is kind of redundant isn't it?
For sure, not !
Smalltalk already has a foothold on the Pi in the form of Squeak, and Tim Rowledge is being paid by that organization right now to improve Scratch. So if you're interested in helping kids learn programming with Scratch, why not check with Tim see if you can find a way help with what he's doing..?
Yes, we already discussed about that with Tim. Our goal is not the same. I don't want to say something wrong, but Tim want to do Scratch on a recent Squeak, then including BYOB. He is working hard to integrate it on RPi. Phratch is something different: it is based on Scratch, but the goal is to be as much extendable as possible. For example, I use it for robotics. This is not possible in Scratch. Yes there is Enchanting, but it is based on a plugin if I understood well. Another goal is to access to Smalltalk code. As a good learning language, I think that using phratch should help developers to learn smalltalk, which is not a goal of Scratch. So, as I said, we already discussed with Tim, and I am sure we will reuse our work. If I remember, Tim already has a look at phratch source code. For my part, if Tim do plugins that work on RPi, I will probably use them. And I hope to meet Tim at ESUG if he will come to discuss about all of that. Cheers, Jannik
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian?
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
I think that Jannik started to clean to code long before tim and he is not payed for that so at least we should respect that and do not start to blame him about redundancy. And cleaning Scratch is really a MUST because it is full of *&%^&%. To the point that the people from Scat dropped the maintenance because it was a NIGHTMARE. So can we respect the work of people? Stef On 21/5/14 18:11, Chris Muller wrote:
One reason might be that Phratch is kind of redundant isn't it? Smalltalk already has a foothold on the Pi in the form of Squeak, and Tim Rowledge is being paid by that organization right now to improve Scratch. So if you're interested in helping kids learn programming with Scratch, why not check with Tim see if you can find a way help with what he's doing..?
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian?
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
I'd say that Phratch is another kind of beast. As it has deeper abilities to go down the system, the pragmas blocks things etc. In that, this can be usable by engineers and not kids. I am seeing Phratch as "Scratch for grown ups".
From I saw from the code and plugins etc, there has indeed been a ton of cleanups.
One very cool place where we would see it are in fablabs. e.g. Close to where I live - http://makilab.org (this thing is getting its wings ready) - and where I'll introduce Phratch at one point. Jannik, you have given us a powertool. Let's use it as such! Phil On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:50 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
I think that Jannik started to clean to code long before tim and he is not payed for that so at least we should respect that and do not start to blame him about redundancy.
And cleaning Scratch is really a MUST because it is full of *&%^&%. To the point that the people from Scat dropped the maintenance because it was a NIGHTMARE.
So can we respect the work of people?
Stef
On 21/5/14 18:11, Chris Muller wrote:
One reason might be that Phratch is kind of redundant isn't it? Smalltalk already has a foothold on the Pi in the form of Squeak, and Tim Rowledge is being paid by that organization right now to improve Scratch. So if you're interested in helping kids learn programming with Scratch, why not check with Tim see if you can find a way help with what he's doing..?
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian?
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/ Phratch-OneClick-RPi/
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
It sounds like a great fit for the prototyping phase of the Design Thinking cycle exciting sebastian o/ On May 22, 2014, at 5:43 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
I'd say that Phratch is another kind of beast. As it has deeper abilities to go down the system, the pragmas blocks things etc.
In that, this can be usable by engineers and not kids. I am seeing Phratch as "Scratch for grown ups". From I saw from the code and plugins etc, there has indeed been a ton of cleanups.
One very cool place where we would see it are in fablabs.
e.g. Close to where I live - http://makilab.org (this thing is getting its wings ready) - and where I'll introduce Phratch at one point.
Jannik, you have given us a powertool. Let's use it as such!
Phil
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:50 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote: I think that Jannik started to clean to code long before tim and he is not payed for that so at least we should respect that and do not start to blame him about redundancy.
And cleaning Scratch is really a MUST because it is full of *&%^&%. To the point that the people from Scat dropped the maintenance because it was a NIGHTMARE.
So can we respect the work of people?
Stef
On 21/5/14 18:11, Chris Muller wrote: One reason might be that Phratch is kind of redundant isn't it? Smalltalk already has a foothold on the Pi in the form of Squeak, and Tim Rowledge is being paid by that organization right now to improve Scratch. So if you're interested in helping kids learn programming with Scratch, why not check with Tim see if you can find a way help with what he's doing..?
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote: Hi!
My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian?
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi...
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
2014-05-22 10:43 GMT+02:00 phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be>:
I'd say that Phratch is another kind of beast. As it has deeper abilities to go down the system, the pragmas blocks things etc.
In that, this can be usable by engineers and not kids. I am seeing Phratch as "Scratch for grown ups". From I saw from the code and plugins etc, there has indeed been a ton of cleanups.
One very cool place where we would see it are in fablabs.
e.g. Close to where I live - http://makilab.org (this thing is getting its wings ready) - and where I'll introduce Phratch at one point.
Thank you !
Jannik, you have given us a powertool. Let's use it as such!
:D Jannik
Phil
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:50 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
I think that Jannik started to clean to code long before tim and he is not payed for that so at least we should respect that and do not start to blame him about redundancy.
And cleaning Scratch is really a MUST because it is full of *&%^&%. To the point that the people from Scat dropped the maintenance because it was a NIGHTMARE.
So can we respect the work of people?
Stef
On 21/5/14 18:11, Chris Muller wrote:
One reason might be that Phratch is kind of redundant isn't it? Smalltalk already has a foothold on the Pi in the form of Squeak, and Tim Rowledge is being paid by that organization right now to improve Scratch. So if you're interested in helping kids learn programming with Scratch, why not check with Tim see if you can find a way help with what he's doing..?
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian?
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/ Phratch-OneClick-RPi/
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:50 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
I think that Jannik started to clean to code long before tim and he is not payed for that so at least we should respect that and do not start to blame him about redundancy.
Hi Stef, I'm talking about redundancy within the default PI configuration. No matter how uber-awesome Phratch is "underneath", Pi-consumer's would find two things on their Pi that appear to be almost the same. Hence my suggestion (before understanding the infeasibility) that jannik try to collaborate rather than reinvent.
And cleaning Scratch is really a MUST because it is full of *&%^&%. To the point that the people from Scat dropped the maintenance because it was a NIGHTMARE.
So can we respect the work of people?
I do! I never referred anyone else's work as "full of *&%^&%"...
On 22 May 2014 17:07, Chris Muller <asqueaker@gmail.com> wrote:
So can we respect the work of people?
I do! I never referred anyone else's work as "full of *&%^&%"...
I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but⦠<begin part where I do> there is a nuance between work = efforts of a person and work = software artifact that resulted from many efforts over a long period Software rot happens, even with well-intentioned and skilled developers, and there is no disrespect in calling it for what it is. -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet
2014-05-22 17:07 GMT+02:00 Chris Muller <asqueaker@gmail.com>:
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:50 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
I think that Jannik started to clean to code long before tim and he is not payed for that so at least we should respect that and do not start to blame him about redundancy.
Hi Stef, I'm talking about redundancy within the default PI configuration. No matter how uber-awesome Phratch is "underneath", Pi-consumer's would find two things on their Pi that appear to be almost the same. Hence my suggestion (before understanding the infeasibility) that jannik try to collaborate rather than reinvent.
I don't understand the "unfeasibility". I am sure this is possible to collaborate but probably not where you think. We can share all the plugins, and a lot of tricks to remove in the source code for example. Tim and me will discuss about these points during ESUG. Please, do not consider the unfeasibility of a collaboration because of a different goal. Jannik
And cleaning Scratch is really a MUST because it is full of *&%^&%. To the point that the people from Scat dropped the maintenance because it was a NIGHTMARE.
So can we respect the work of people?
I do! I never referred anyone else's work as "full of *&%^&%"...
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
2014-05-22 9:50 GMT+02:00 stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
I think that Jannik started to clean to code long before tim
probably yes.
and he is not payed for that so at least we should respect that and do not start to blame him about redundancy.
The question is legitimate, this is not a problem to ask it. I answered.
And cleaning Scratch is really a MUST because it is full of *&%^&%. To the point that the people from Scat dropped the maintenance because it was a NIGHTMARE.
Yes, but they did a great work that help me a lot to begin. Jannik
So can we respect the work of people?
Stef
On 21/5/14 18:11, Chris Muller wrote:
One reason might be that Phratch is kind of redundant isn't it? Smalltalk already has a foothold on the Pi in the form of Squeak, and Tim Rowledge is being paid by that organization right now to improve Scratch. So if you're interested in helping kids learn programming with Scratch, why not check with Tim see if you can find a way help with what he's doing..?
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
My point was the following: why Phratch is not included in the default setting of Rasbian?
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On May 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, jannik laval <jannik.laval@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Probably he does not know phratch for Rasberry-Pi: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/ Phratch-OneClick-RPi/
Cheers :)
2014-05-20 15:32 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>: Hi!
A friend of mine recently bought a Raspberry pi and installed Rasbian, a Debian-like OS for Raspberry. Squeak and Scratch are installed per default. There is room to fill here...
<image001.png>
Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
-- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://car.mines-douai.fr/
participants (11)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Chris Muller -
Clément Bera -
Damien Pollet -
Goubier Thierry -
jannik laval -
Jean Baptiste Arnaud -
Juan -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Sebastian Sastre -
stepharo