Well... this is an example of what the "thread" was about at the beginning... that is, the lack of knowledge on software development... I you have known a little bit about architecture, multi-threading and vm implementation, you would quickly realize that pharo will not scale as a server. Squeak (where pharo comes from) was not design/implemented to be used as a server (and please, don not take this bad, I don't want to be unworthy with Pharo because it is changing and getting better with every realease) So, if you want to do a "serious enterprise" application, you should have used and architecture prepare for that such as GemStone (GLASS in this case)... it is a pity you lost so much money due to you "lack" of knowledge. Bye, Hernan On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Guido Stepken <gstepken@googlemail.com>wrote:
Am 13.02.2012 20:25 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse<stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> @ <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>inria.fr <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>>:
Dear Guido
Hi Stef!
Do the right things, make Pharo, Seaside *usable*
Did you try with VisualWorks? I'm pretty sure that you can use it without paying a license. :)
Look at: http://<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html>
www.cyberport.de<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> /<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> notebook<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> -und-<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> tablet<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> /<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> notebook<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> -<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> berater<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> /erweiterte-suche/<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...> liste.html<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-such...>
Selecting notebooks by price, endurance, weight, with sliders. I could
sell *hundreds* of those shops to customers, big companies, hosting inclusive for 20.000 each.
Are you doing such web site? With Seaside? With Pharo?
Wie started off a project, a shop like this, with Seaside on Pharo, and we had to give up, when benchmarks came into consideration.
You remember, some time ago, you and Marcus denied all my complaints:
http://<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> forum.world.st<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> /<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> Hanging<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> connects<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> exhausted<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> resources<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> memory<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> leaks<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> bocked<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> everything<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> Unusable<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...> -td3669616.html<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bock...>
What has happened? I went on with pushing development of a similar shop (see cyberport.de) and finally lost several 10.000nds of â¬, because Pharo/Seaside *is* much too slow for any serious enterprise.
Pharo/Seaside *is* the right tool if YOU WOULD DO THE RIGHT THINGS, not just bothering some class structure deep in Pharo.
Pharo hangs even at *directly* serving static pages at low loads. I hoped to see significant speedups due to lack of any 3/4/5 tier middleware with being everything done within one VM. Database, delivery, â¦
Provide real code and examples.
My former complaints (see link above) have been ignored, calling me a Troll, and in the meantime this list *is full* of reports Pharo being unstable.
You as being the *always optimistic* chief develloper and project manager your lazy attitude already has cost me a lot of â¬!!! More than your annual income!
But ok, my personal risk!
I am still disappointed. Welcome in the *real world*. Doing academic brainfuck is not sufficient.
:) Who are you to know what we are really doing :)
I follow all changes, i know, hat you are aiming at! But - you've got the wrong priorities!
Stability *always* comes first!!!
So are your etats for developing Pharo, near ZERO. Start thinking like business men! Listen to that, what customers want!
I would be curious to see your "clients".
I've got best connections to top 500 enterprise and deciders in germany. I would be pleased to present them a Seaside Shop, running on Pharo, PostgreSql or Magma behind, ready to run from within one image.
Pharo is far from what we dream about but we are serious about it and we are concerned by business.
Now your trolling is good because we are not an obscure community without a troll but we have one troll so this is good. Thanks.
Ok. If you are not able to get Pharo development managed under consideration of business needs, means: benchmarks and stress tests equiv to sunit tests, please step back as project leader!
If you are positive and provide information that is not just bullshitting then we will consider to reply and consider your request else *plonk*
I am positive, still, although you cost me much money.
Happy hacking!
Guido Stepken
-- *Hernán Wilkinson Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching Mobile: +54 - 911 - 4470 - 7207 email: hernan.wilkinson@10Pines.com site: http://www.10Pines.com <http://www.10pines.com/>* Address: Paraguay 523, Floor 7 N, Buenos Aires, Argentina