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Re: [Pharo-project] Set with nil is fixed and waiting for a nice reviewer

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

so may be the bug entry should have stated that because oscar and nico spend a day on it. Stef On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:56 AM, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > On 15.03.2010 00:18, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> 2010/3/14 Levente Uzonyi<leves(a)elte.hu>: >>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> during the sprint niko schwarz and oscar nierstrasz fixed the Set in nil >>>> entry. >>>> Thanks. >>>> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1907 >>> Why did you choose Igor's negative tally hack instead of the SetElement >>> version? >>> >> I'd prefer to use SetElement, unless there was a decision made, to use >> negative tally. >> We had a quite big discussion around it on squeak-dev, and most >> developers said that SetElement >> is the way to go, because it is clean, OO-oriented, even if somewhat >> slower comparing to other approaches. >> > +1 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 15, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about video games

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

the second is scary :) On Mar 15, 2010, at 2:19 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 15 March 2010 02:59, Michael J. Forster <mike(a)sharedlogic.ca> wrote: >> On 2010-03-14, at 16:09, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> A friend of mine sent this interesting links >>> >>> >>> http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/commentary/games/2008/09/gamesfro… >>> >>>> >>>> http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/jan2009/id20090114_362962.htm >>> >>> Worth to read. >>> >>> Stef >> >> >> The students might have employed the scientific method, but the article >> itself is not a good example of even populist science writing. >> >> The author states that enrollment in the sciences has fallen because of >> boring presentation of facts and that video games offer a rejuvenated quest >> for facts. How do we know that enrollment has declined for that claimed >> reason? How do we know that it's not the subject matter of video games that >> interests the students, and that students won't shoe the same disinterest >> when we apply video games to, say, biology or particle physics? >> >> I would never discard a new viable approach to teaching and learning, but >> this sounds a lot like the ethanol solution to climate change. >> > > Hmm, i didn't read a second link, but from a first one i think it says that > it doesn't makes students to be more interested in theory or > fundamental science. > What it does, is teaching them the way of thinking, exactly how > scientific method works. > So, then, once they realising that, it is much easier for them to > learn more diffucult things > and apply the same approach to a different areas. > > >> Mike _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 15, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about video games

by Michael J. Forster

On 2010-03-14, at 20:19, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 15 March 2010 02:59, Michael J. Forster <mike(a)sharedlogic.ca> > wrote: >> On 2010-03-14, at 16:09, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria. >> fr> wrote: >> >>> A friend of mine sent this interesting links >>> >>> >>> http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/commentary/games/2008/09/gamesfro… >>> >>>> >>>> http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/jan2009/id20090114_362962.htm >>> >>> Worth to read. >>> >>> Stef >> >> >> The students might have employed the scientific method, but the >> article >> itself is not a good example of even populist science writing. >> >> The author states that enrollment in the sciences has fallen >> because of >> boring presentation of facts and that video games offer a >> rejuvenated quest >> for facts. How do we know that enrollment has declined for that >> claimed >> reason? How do we know that it's not the subject matter of video >> games that >> interests the students, and that students won't shoe the same >> disinterest >> when we apply video games to, say, biology or particle physics? >> >> I would never discard a new viable approach to teaching and >> learning, but >> this sounds a lot like the ethanol solution to climate change. >> > > Hmm, i didn't read a second link, but from a first one i think it > says that > it doesn't makes students to be more interested in theory or > fundamental science. > What it does, is teaching them the way of thinking, exactly how > scientific method works. > So, then, once they realising that, it is much easier for them to > learn more diffucult things > and apply the same approach to a different areas. Well, as I said, the articles themselves are hardly scientific in their assertions and analysis. My point is that, as I have observed in students I have studied with and those I have taught, understanding the scientific method is not the hurdle. Finding the motivation and patience to carry out the slow painstaking work of applying that scientific method -- doing the work of science -- is what turns people away. Science is very hard work, and, materialistically, the pay sucks. So, if I were to reason as recklessly as the authors, I would argue that as much of the problem lies with a generation of instant- gratification seeking people as it does with boring old science classes. Further, I might rant that it was video games that created that problem. Heck, the best that we can hope for is that these kids will end up applying the scientific method to online poker. Of course, that wouldn't be very scientific of me ;-) Anyway, yes, it was worth a read. Thanks for that, Stephane. Mike

March 15, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about video games

by Igor Stasenko

On 15 March 2010 02:59, Michael J. Forster <mike(a)sharedlogic.ca> wrote: > On 2010-03-14, at 16:09, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> A friend of mine sent this interesting links >> >> >> http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/commentary/games/2008/09/gamesfro… >> >>> >>> http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/jan2009/id20090114_362962.htm >> >> Worth to read. >> >> Stef > > > The students might have employed the scientific method, but the article > itself is Â not a good example of even populist science writing. > > The author states that enrollment in the sciences has fallen because of > boring presentation of facts and that video games offer a rejuvenated quest > for facts. How do we know that enrollment has declined for that claimed > reason? How do we know that it's not the subject matter of video games that > interests the students, and that students won't shoe the same disinterest > when we apply video games to, say, biology or particle physics? > > I would never discard a new viable approach to teaching and learning, but > this sounds a lot like the ethanol solution to climate change. > Hmm, i didn't read a second link, but from a first one i think it says that it doesn't makes students to be more interested in theory or fundamental science. What it does, is teaching them the way of thinking, exactly how scientific method works. So, then, once they realising that, it is much easier for them to learn more diffucult things and apply the same approach to a different areas. > Mike Â _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 15, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about video games

by Michael J. Forster

On 2010-03-14, at 16:09, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > A friend of mine sent this interesting links > > http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/commentary/games/2008/09/gamesfro… > >> http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/jan2009/id20090114_362962.htm > > Worth to read. > > Stef The students might have employed the scientific method, but the article itself is not a good example of even populist science writing. The author states that enrollment in the sciences has fallen because of boring presentation of facts and that video games offer a rejuvenated quest for facts. How do we know that enrollment has declined for that claimed reason? How do we know that it's not the subject matter of video games that interests the students, and that students won't shoe the same disinterest when we apply video games to, say, biology or particle physics? I would never discard a new viable approach to teaching and learning, but this sounds a lot like the ethanol solution to climate change. Mike

March 15, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Set with nil is fixed and waiting for a nice reviewer

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 15.03.2010 00:18, Igor Stasenko wrote: > 2010/3/14 Levente Uzonyi<leves(a)elte.hu>: >> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> during the sprint niko schwarz and oscar nierstrasz fixed the Set in nil >>> entry. >>> Thanks. >>> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1907 >> Why did you choose Igor's negative tally hack instead of the SetElement >> version? >> > I'd prefer to use SetElement, unless there was a decision made, to use > negative tally. > We had a quite big discussion around it on squeak-dev, and most > developers said that SetElement > is the way to go, because it is clean, OO-oriented, even if somewhat > slower comparing to other approaches. > +1

March 14, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about video games

by Patrick Barroca

Really interesting. The last sentence from the first link, when the kid says "I'm just cheating the game", makes me wonder if scientists are kids trying to cheat the real world game ;) On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 10:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > A friend of mine sent this interesting links > > http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/commentary/games/2008/09/gamesfro… > >> http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/jan2009/id20090114_362962.htm > > Worth to read. > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Patrick Barroca

March 14, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Rewrote "Smalltalk" to "Smalltalk globals"

by Igor Stasenko

I love you guys! :) On 14 March 2010 22:46, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Thanks. I'm merging. I like my dreams when they come true. > > Stef > > On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > >> I published a slice that rewrites "Smalltalk" Â to "Smalltalk globals" >> for various messages >> (http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2143) To adapt the >> code in other packages just run the rewrite rules below: >> >> Name: SLICE-RewriteSmalltalkToSmalltalkGlobals-lr.1 >> Author: lr >> Time: 14 March 2010, 9:18:06 pm >> UUID: 1742e7f2-7233-4be3-bc3d-c9332ed07ef7 >> Ancestors: >> Dependencies: Collections-Support-lr.31, Collections-Text-lr.30, >> Compiler-lr.196, CompilerTests-lr.32, Compression-lr.50, >> DeprecatedPreferences-lr.17, Files-lr.ducasse.139, FreeType-lr.524, >> Gofer-Core-lr.118, Gofer-Tests-lr.117, Graphics-lr.214, >> GraphicsTests-lr.32, Kernel-lr.617, KernelTests-lr.216, >> Monticello-lr.439, MonticelloGUI-lr.51, Morphic-lr.547, >> Multilingual-lr.155, Network-Protocols-lr.42, Network-URI-lr.17, >> Network-Url-lr.28, PackageInfo-lr.51, Polymorph-Tools-Diff-lr.26, >> Polymorph-Widgets-lr.214, ST80-lr.126, SUnit-lr.91, SUnitGUI-lr.57, >> ScriptLoader11-lr.297, Settings-Polymorph-lr.3, System-lr.11, >> System-Changes-lr.52, System-Download-lr.45, System-FilePackage-lr.36, >> System-Localization-lr.43, System-Object Storage-lr.87, >> System-Settings-lr.181, System-Support-lr.259, Tests-lr.131, >> ToolBuilder-Morphic-lr.65, Tools-lr.362, Traits-lr.359 >> >> RBParseTreeRewriter new >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk associationAt: ``@arg1' with: 'Smalltalk globals >> associationAt: ``@arg1'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk associationAt: ``@arg1 ifAbsent: ``@arg2' with: >> 'Smalltalk globals associationAt: >> ``@arg1 ifAbsent: ``@arg2'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk associationDeclareAt: ``@arg1' with: 'Smalltalk >> globals associationDeclareAt: >> ``@arg1'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk associationOrUndeclaredAt: ``@arg1' with: >> 'Smalltalk globals >> associationOrUndeclaredAt: ``@arg1'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk classNamed: ``@arg1' with: 'Smalltalk globals >> classNamed: ``@arg1'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk at: ``@arg1' with: 'Smalltalk globals at: ``@arg1'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk at: ``@arg1 ifPresent: ``@arg2' with: 'Smalltalk >> globals at: ``@arg1 ifPresent: >> ``@arg2'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk at: ``@arg1 ifAbsent: ``@arg2' with: 'Smalltalk >> globals at: ``@arg1 ifAbsent: >> ``@arg2'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk includesKey: ``@arg1' with: 'Smalltalk globals >> includesKey: ``@arg1'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk keyAtIdentityValue: ``@arg1' with: 'Smalltalk >> globals keyAtIdentityValue: ``@arg1'; >> Â Â Â replace: 'Smalltalk flushClassNameCache' with: 'Smalltalk globals >> flushClassNameCache'; >> Â Â Â yourself >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 14, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Set with nil is fixed and waiting for a nice reviewer

by Igor Stasenko

2010/3/14 Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu>: > On Sun, 14 Mar 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> during the sprint niko schwarz and oscar nierstrasz fixed the Set in nil >> entry. >> Thanks. >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1907 > > Why did you choose Igor's negative tally hack instead of the SetElement > version? > I'd prefer to use SetElement, unless there was a decision made, to use negative tally. We had a quite big discussion around it on squeak-dev, and most developers said that SetElement is the way to go, because it is clean, OO-oriented, even if somewhat slower comparing to other approaches. > > Levente > >> >> Now does somebody with knowledge could have a look because this is a >> sensitive >> part of the system and more eyes does not hurt. >> >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 14, 2010

[Pharo-project] A pause... for tests and orthogonal concerns

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

hi guys I was discussing with pavel and I like his point. I would like to do a kind of pause and fix the tests. Improve a bit the fact that we get more tests incrementally to avoid regression. Tell what you think and think how you could help. Stef

March 14, 2010