January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you. How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:14 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 17:01, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > I'm tired of reading that I'm asking people to do work FOR ME. I am "asking" for things that will allow me to do things for YOU. Want the attached in useful form? Maybe you don't - numerical analysis is a "home" to me. ***I**** have what I need - YOU don't. But you never said something like that before, i.e. "when you will have *that*, i can release/improve *this* so everyone can benefit". Unless you say what are you working on and what/why you need something , how else we can know? > I'm done with this bickering over semantics and being told how I'm leaning on others. When callbacks are supported, I will use them to turn the attached (and more, plus >100 stucture defs) into something that YOU can use and make it available for YOU. Until then, I don't have the time to waste on a half-baked solution with C callbacks that will be discarded once Spock arrives. > > BTW, some Gnuplot and PLplot bindings are in a similar situation. Yours *when* the infrastructure is in place. Last I'm going to say on this. I will NOT change things twice - too damn much work. > do you have some tool for generating these bindings? because if not, then indeed its too much work to do manually. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2012 17:01, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > I'm tired of reading that I'm asking people to do work FOR ME. Â I am "asking" for things that will allow me to do things for YOU. Want the attached in useful form? Â Maybe you don't - numerical analysis is a "home" to me. Â ***I**** have what I need - YOU don't. But you never said something like that before, i.e. "when you will have *that*, i can release/improve *this* so everyone can benefit". Unless you say what are you working on and what/why you need something , how else we can know? > I'm done with this bickering over semantics and being told how I'm leaning on others. Â When callbacks are supported, I will use them to turn the attached (and more, plus >100 stucture defs) into something that YOU can use and make it available for YOU. Â Until then, I don't have the time to waste on a half-baked solution with C callbacks that will be discarded once Spock arrives. > > BTW, some Gnuplot and PLplot bindings are in a similar situation. Â Yours *when* the infrastructure is in place. Â Last I'm going to say on this. Â I will NOT change things twice - too damn much work. > do you have some tool for generating these bindings? because if not, then indeed its too much work to do manually. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] pharo vision

by Ben Coman

Stef, I've sent some markup directly, some additional ideas - perhaps only for later and/or more of a library than core functionality. Improved printing subsystem - by which I mean PDF output. Business proposition: Without good PDFs many contemporary business practices are curtailed. For example, multi-page reporting charts being emailed to external clients. Running multiple images on one VM with copy-on-write shared memory. Business proposition: To allow more images (owned by different clients) to be run (presumably) with less resources on resource limited web server platforms. cheers, Ben

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Morpheas , bringing Morphic to Opengl (3d GUIs)

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2012 14:57, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>Â yesÂ this is just that we got instability on jenkins windows slave > > aha no problemo I can wait > >>Â there is windows build, just check downloads page of NB project site. > > oups I missed the obvious one , hehe > >> Yes, because for linux we don't have an opengl initialization yet. >> Javier were working on that.. >> @Javier, what is the status? > > No problemo, I am fine with macos one for now which is my main platform > anyway. But its good to know that future support for windows and linux is > one of your goals. > yes.. but it takes time to make it work everywhere. > By the way I read the Chapter you linked of PBE pdf on FFI . Very well > written, it might be WIP but already it clears up loads and loads of > things. > > Cool name you picked there "Spock" should I assume someone is like me a big > fan of Star Trek ? > > Is there any documentation anywhere even partial for NBOpenGL that I can use > ? (google does not return anything ) > since it is a direct binding to opengl, do not expect any documentation on it. it is assumed that if you know opengl, you should be capable of doing the rest by yourself :) maybe context handling/initialization part needs some documenting.. but not that much. since using FFI you can directly interact with OS and other OS-specific stuff, anyone could actually do it in own whay (an opengl context creation), while then use the NBOpenGL for rendering. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, I'm tired of reading that I'm asking people to do work FOR ME. I am "asking" for things that will allow me to do things for YOU. Want the attached in useful form? Maybe you don't - numerical analysis is a "home" to me. ***I**** have what I need - YOU don't. I'm done with this bickering over semantics and being told how I'm leaning on others. When callbacks are supported, I will use them to turn the attached (and more, plus >100 stucture defs) into something that YOU can use and make it available for YOU. Until then, I don't have the time to waste on a half-baked solution with C callbacks that will be discarded once Spock arrives. BTW, some Gnuplot and PLplot bindings are in a similar situation. Yours *when* the infrastructure is in place. Last I'm going to say on this. I will NOT change things twice - too damn much work. Regards, Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:32 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 09:36, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > GÃ¶ran, > > Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. > > Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. > > Best regards, > > Bill > > [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > you're waiting for too long. why you cannot just make it happen by yourself? or do you think that i/others will oppose to that "don't even think to go onto my territory!!" ? :) i mean, if you need them so badly, why you sitting and waiting, instead of making it happen? I would really appreciate any help with improving NativeBoost, because i have too many things to be done, and simply lacking time for doing everything at once. > [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > > > ________________________________________ -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Morpheas , bringing Morphic to Opengl (3d GUIs)

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2012 16:53, Javier PimÃ¡s <elpochodelagente(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi! IIRC: Two months ago the code was working on windows but needed some > modifications to create the contexts on the other platforms. Probably Igor > did that for mac now, and maybe even linux, but I have to test. I remember I > was working on the NBXLib wrapper so that context creation can be done with > st code on linux. I will continue with all this this week, I just have to > download everything and catch up with recent changes and then I'll come > back. > No, i did nothing concerning linux port. And i actually broken the windows port for now.. because i refactored code while making mac port working. but i will fix it soon :) > Cheers, > Javier. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Morpheas , bringing Morphic to Opengl (3d GUIs)

by Javier PimÃ¡s

Hi! IIRC: Two months ago the code was working on windows but needed some modifications to create the contexts on the other platforms. Probably Igor did that for mac now, and maybe even linux, but I have to test. I remember I was working on the NBXLib wrapper so that context creation can be done with st code on linux. I will continue with all this this week, I just have to download everything and catch up with recent changes and then I'll come back. Cheers, Javier. On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 31 January 2012 10:29, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I wanted to ask if NB and COG will support windows as well, I see no > windows > > build. > there is windows build, just check downloads page of NB project site. > > > > > and here we go with first problem. I am in linux mint 12 32 bit with a > > graphic card NVIDIA GEFORCE 6200 . > > > > I got Cog VM with the Nativeboost plugin + Pharo 1.4 image + Nativeboost > + > > NBOpenGL > > > > This is my workspace > > > > ---- > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'NativeBoost'; > > package: 'NativeBoost-Installer'; > > load. > > > > > > NBInstaller install. > > > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'NBOpenGL'; > > package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; > > load. > > > > ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project lastVersion load. > > > > test := (GLTTRenderingDemo new) openInWorld; yourself. > > --- > > > > the problem appears in the last line with an error "No suitable > > implementation found for initlising OpenGL context" . Should I assume it > can > > find OpenGL libraries or is it a problem with the graphic card drivers. > CC > > has been given me problem, but Blender works okish considering it > completely > > reliant on OpenGL > > > > Yes, because for linux we don't have an opengl initialization yet. > Javier were working on that.. > @Javier, what is the status? > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Lic. Javier PimÃ¡s Ciudad de Buenos Aires

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2012 16:39, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > there's third option: > Â - give up and fix problems step by step :) i think this option needs some explanation. as it happens to many of us i had a vision of making a super-project to rule'em all. but for that i were in need for having an ultimate and perfect tools to start with, and that's how squeak (and smalltalk in general) took my attention. but then i discovered that system in its current state is far from being perfect, and simply doesn't meets my criteria of "perfection". so i _gave up_ looking for perfect tool, because i came to understanding that there is no such thing. and instead i dedicated myself to making this tool better, so at some day, me (and others , of course) could make own project to rule'em all :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, Full plate. I have code that serves me and my employers. It needs to be changed so that YOU and others can use it. Will do, but I need help to be able to afford to take that plunge - just how it is. Maybe a fileout of bindings would show what I am saying - I think I can do that. As Einstein proved, time and money are interchangeable. When callbacks are supported, I'll use my own time to create "something you'll really like" (as Rocky would say). Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:32 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 09:36, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > GÃ¶ran, > > Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. > > Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. > > Best regards, > > Bill > > [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > you're waiting for too long. why you cannot just make it happen by yourself? or do you think that i/others will oppose to that "don't even think to go onto my territory!!" ? :) i mean, if you need them so badly, why you sitting and waiting, instead of making it happen? I would really appreciate any help with improving NativeBoost, because i have too many things to be done, and simply lacking time for doing everything at once. > [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > > > ________________________________________ -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2012 16:16, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Jan 31, 2012, at 12:10 PM, Frank Shearar wrote: > >> On 31 January 2012 14:44, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I agree whole heartedly after a month of Pharo being used as a tool for >>> newbies. >>> >>> a) Crashes... > > Make sure to run an up-to-date vm and image (and yes, the downloads are not up to date...) > > And it's important that people report problems. If problems are not reported, it is as if they > would not exist. > >>> b) Bugs in basic functionality: Morphic as well as in other places > Morphic is just crap. But what can we do else than slowly fixing what we see? > >>> c) The User Guide is not in synch with the current stable Pharo.. in simple >>> images of browsers.. > We just can't update pharo by example for every release... the day has just 24 hours. > But it is true that the version right now is far too old. (based on a horibly slow 1.0 with > a completely different browser...) > > > In general there are two options: > > Â Â Â Â -> give up and do something else > Â Â Â Â -> fix the problems, step by step. > there's third option: - give up and fix problems step by step :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012