December 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Automated VM build server

by Igor Stasenko

On 18 December 2010 22:32, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > El 18/12/2010, a las 3:28p.m., Igor Stasenko escribiÃ³: > >> On 18 December 2010 13:23, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> this is cool Igor. >>> can I get your scripts? (I'm working on a set to build the vms for mac, and >>> your scripts would Â be helpful) >> >> I will put everything to my clone repo >> Â git://gitorious.org/~abrabapupa/cogvm/sig-cog.git >> as soon as will be able to fully build Cog VM with freetype plugin. >> >> I built Cog with xcode, but i didn't checked if it can be built using >> command line. > > yep, with "xcodebuild"... it is not a great tool, but it is enough :) > okay, i managed to build the whole VM & pushed changes to my repo. see macbuild/FT2Plugin macbuild/makevm (changed) also look at codegen-scripts/VMMaker-Version.st there i gathered info of all stuff which related to code generation. I also removed src dir :) > cheers, > Esteban > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Graph library in Smalltalk - Need for advices

by Alexandre Bergel

Indeed. Mondrian works relative well for displaying and layout graph below 20.000 nodes. Over that, an external library is best. There is a bridge Mondrian<--> graphviz. Cheers, Alexandre On 18 Dec 2010, at 11:26, Levente Uzonyi wrote: > On Sat, 18 Dec 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> May this is a ridiculuous thought but may be it would be good to start an effort on >> build a library for Smalltalk. Reusing some part of mondrian could be good. > > It would be very slow and really a lot of work. Mondrian is nice for visualization, but a Graph library is a lot more than that. > > > Levente > >> >> Stef >> >> >>> JGraphT worked alright in what I tried against in the past, but it won't >>> scale to huge heights like most libs without major tweaking or a graph DB >>> backing it along with some serious threading. >>> >>> Just to throw in a few others I've used, but not with Smalltalk: >>> >>> * https://software.sandia.gov/trac/mtgl MTGL >>> * http://lemon.cs.elte.hu/trac/lemon LEMON >>> * .NET http://quickgraph.codeplex.com/ Quickgraph /Graph# >>> * http://igraph.sourceforge.net/introduction.html iGraph >>> * http://snap-graph.sourceforge.net/ SNAP >>> >>> Of the above, I've had some of the best experience with LEMON in terms of >>> scale and speed for real-world usage. Unfortunately, none of these libraries >>> include everything you'd want, so at some point you will have to roll some >>> stuff yourself. That's been my experience at least. >>> >>> Some Graph or Graph-like Databases (tend to have some algorithm libs as >>> well): >>> >>> * http://www.infinitegraph.com InfiniteGraph (this runs on Objectivity >>> underneath the covers which has a Smalltalk impl) >>> * http://www.neo4j.org neo4j >>> * http://www.kobrix.com/hgdb.jsp HyperGraphDB >>> >>> Some related useful items for dealing with large sets and graphs when you >>> are thinking about performance and/or parallel processing: >>> >>> * http://gauss.cs.ucsb.edu/~aydin/doc/html/index.html Combinatorial BLAS >>> * http://www.semanticdesigns.com/Products/PARLANSE/ PARLANSE >>> * http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/dryadlinq/ DRYAD LINQ >>> >>> FYI, I would strongly recommend against using Ruby for anything with graphs >>> except as a simple client lib. I spent a lot of time on this before and it >>> simply does not scale or perform to anything beyond very simple cases, and >>> the memory footprint in a real app becomes horrendous. We had to tweak the >>> hell out of some libs to get anything decent and even then we ended up >>> writing stacks of C to compensate. If you're just dealing with 100 vertex >>> undirected graphs, then it works great. It's honestly the fault of a lot of >>> the libs rather than the language, but nonetheless be warned. >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Graph-library-in-Smalltalk-Need-for-advices-tp3092747… >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >> >> >> -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Dear Santa ...

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Do you mean better than VW or Pharo? Dolphin is damn good; the problem there is Windows itself. On technical grounds, VW is excellent. Its feature set is bigger than Dolphin's, and so is its price tag. When I first started getting very concerned about Microsoft's whims knocking me out of business, I contacted Cincom (or perhaps it was a predecessor??) and asked for a price. They literally asked me "what's it worth to you?" Whether that is scary or innovative, I'm not sure. It was not something I was ready to take the accountant du jour. Perhaps VW would have a community grow around it were it not for the runtime fees?? Just asking. The pricing model certainly stopped me from even trying to adopt it on Linux several years ago. Smalltalk/X and MT both have their followers, or at least had strong ones when I last looked: I didn't get it. X was unstable, and MT wasn't finished, IMHO. Again, that is old news at this point and would need to be re-evaluated. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 4:02 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Dear Santa ... let's start to get more political here: - first did VW ever considered any community? - second does it make sense not to change? - third what is a better smalltalk? Yes of course been fragmented is bad but this is like that. Stef On Dec 18, 2010, at 8:38 PM, Andreas Wacknitz wrote:

Dec. 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Dear Santa ...

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

On 18. 12. 2010 20:38, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: > > Am 18.12.2010 um 20:16 schrieb Torsten Bergmann: > >> Only a few days until christmas. You should tell Santa your wishes for Pharo here on the list - who knows maybe in one of the next releases or announcements... >> >> Let me be the first: >> - easy to use foreign interface including callback support for >> all major platforms >> - reliable (new) squeaksource which includes a one-click image >> so one can easy setup an own (internal) server >> > I want a smalltalksource for all Smalltalk dialects. And I don't want to fear that any company or manager gone wild could cancel it. > Really, the Smalltalk community is small and fragmented, and every dialect is trying to have its own version management and project hosting. > This is really bad IMHO. So many things got already lost or are fallen into oblivion because they were hosted somewhere nobody knows or cares anymore. I second Andreas and Torsten wishes and adds few mine: - Namespaces - Breakpoints - Monticello/Metacello directly from browser - portable async FFI - SOAP/WSDL with object mapping and one-click tool - even more usability enhancements - rock solid image and VM for image-only persistency - more Eliot :) Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Dec. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC server

by Sean P. DeNigris

GermÃ¡n Arduino wrote: > > Yes, I'm working on that project. > Thanks for working on this GermÃ¡n! I keep an XmlRpc server running in my personal image so that I can script OS X with Smalltalk. I just set up shortcuts in FastScripts to Ruby one-liners that make the XMLRPC calls to the image. The script in the image below with ctrl-t shortcut in Safari evaluates a Smalltalk method: http://forum.world.st/file/n3094039/Screen_shot_2010-12-18_at_December_18%2… -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/XMLRPC-server-tp3090251p3094039.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Automated VM build server

by Esteban Lorenzano

El 18/12/2010, a las 3:28p.m., Igor Stasenko escribiÃ³: > On 18 December 2010 13:23, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> this is cool Igor. >> can I get your scripts? (I'm working on a set to build the vms for mac, and >> your scripts would be helpful) > > I will put everything to my clone repo > git://gitorious.org/~abrabapupa/cogvm/sig-cog.git > as soon as will be able to fully build Cog VM with freetype plugin. > > I built Cog with xcode, but i didn't checked if it can be built using > command line. yep, with "xcodebuild"... it is not a great tool, but it is enough :) cheers, Esteban

Dec. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] Dear Santa ...

by Torsten Bergmann

>Only that? :) Sorry ... forgot the "theming" thing (so I Santa should sent us a good designer that reworks the icons, GUI, ... and anything marketing related to be so consistent that people say: 'ah ... that must be Pharo") >I was really a nice boy and I want more :) I thought I wait with the "Smalltalk take over the world" until next year when we all were nice boys and girls ;) >But I have the impression that santa is busy and we will have to >do it ourselves. At least the wishlists can help us to see what people would like to have. And if Santa really exists he may at least help us to find good souls to make progress here ... Thx T. -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt auch mit gratis Notebook-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

Dec. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Dear Santa ...

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

On 18. 12. 2010 22:02, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > let's start to get more political here: > > - first did VW ever considered any community? Yep, in 90's and start of new millenium. but this is unrelated question. > - second does it make sense not to change? This is also unrelated question to Andreas observations. > - third what is a better smalltalk? This is again unrelated question to Andreas observations. I any case, struggling to take care about a Smalltalk wide communty while working in our narrower subcommunities like Pharo, Aida, Seaside etc. is certainly a good and noble goal. Isn't that so? Best regards Janko > Yes of course been fragmented is bad but this is like that. > Stef > On Dec 18, 2010, at 8:38 PM, Andreas Wacknitz wrote: >>> - reliable (new) squeaksource which includes a one-click image >>> so one can easy setup an own (internal) server >>> >> I want a smalltalksource for all Smalltalk dialects. And I don't want to fear that any company or manager gone wild could cancel it. >> Really, the Smalltalk community is small and fragmented, and every dialect is trying to have its own version management and project hosting. >> This is really bad IMHO. So many things got already lost or are fallen into oblivion because they were hosted somewhere nobody knows or cares anymore. >> >> Sigh, >> Andreas -- Janko MivÅ¡ek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Dec. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Dear Santa ...

by Igor Stasenko

On 18 December 2010 22:04, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Only that? :) > > I was really a nice boy and I want more :) > But I have the impression that santa is busy and we will have to do it ourselves. hey, don't spoil the play :) (sure we can be Santa for ourselves) > For my wish list I sent it a while ago as an answer to andres. > Yes, Santa, read Stef's wish list please! > Stef > >> Only a few days until christmas. You should tell Santa your wishes for Pharo here on the list - who knows maybe in one of the next releases or announcements... >> >> Let me be the first: >> - easy to use foreign interface including callback support for >> Â all major platforms >> - reliable (new) squeaksource which includes a one-click image >> Â so one can easy setup an own (internal) server >> >> Thx >> T. >> >> >> -- >> Neu: GMX De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! >> Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/demail >> > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC server

by Sean P. DeNigris

For the time being, this file in will get my above example working - http://forum.world.st/file/n3093995/Object-asXMLRPCString.st Object-asXMLRPCString.st Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/XMLRPC-server-tp3090251p3093995.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 18, 2010