February 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes

by Bill Schwab

Damien, The pieces for themes are certainly present. Maybe we can excavate to find a Win98 SE box that still runs and take some notes. IIRC, there is a skin manager/loader for Squeak, and some of the skins it loaded were fairly tame. Depending on licensing, a simple member of that collection might be a good choice to copy to create a theme?? I am not suggesting that we ditch Polymorph, only that we might plagiarize some icons for a theme. I threw my speed comment out because Gary _did_ ask, and it is hard to tell how much of the hit is in Polymorph and how much is in OB. One older Pharo image that I use has some quirks that could be fixed by making some morphs ignore mouse interactions. It is probably my problem in this case, but I wonder how much of the IDE's lack of snappiness lurks in drawing more than is needed. Sig probably went a long way toward isolating that today. It's not really bad, I just think it should be quicker than it is. It is also true that I care a lot more about the speed available to my end users than I do about my IDE - at least to a point. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> damien.pollet(a)gmail.com 02/08/09 8:52 AM >>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 17:58, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > I suppose I could suggest replacing some of the button bars with more compact iconic toolbars. Things like debugging over, into, etc. lend themselves well to that. The world menu will not make much sense if we ever get one window per shell. it was probably already said, but could the other buttons in the browser use the squarish buttons from the task bar rather than the current rounded ones that waste a bit of space ? > The biggest concern I have right now is speed. I'm not saying Pharo is too slow; I'm simply admitting that I do not know whether it is fast enough for some of the things I want to do. Agreed. Actually I'm wondering if a very sleek minimalistic theme would be nice* flat colors, simple lines, very limited complicated stuff like gradients or shaders* provided the typography, widget spacing, and color choices are done with taste, I think it can look quite nice, and would even be more usable than a more flashy theme. -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 9, 2009

[Pharo-project] another slice for popups cleaning and some questions

by Alain Plantec

Hi all, I've uploaded another slice for popup and co cleaning (SLICE-MorePopUpAndCustomMenuCleaning-alain_plantec.1) - it Removes last PopUpMenu references. - it Removes some of CustomMenu uses (wherever it is possible to replace it with a simpler UIManager dialog). I've three questions: - EmphasizedMenu is never used, can we remove it ? - MorphicUIManager is subclassed by PSUIManager which is now the default UIManager. Several MorphicUImanager methods are redefined in PSUIManager. So I guess one can simply remove MorphicUIManager versions. Is it ok to do so ? (as an example, #chooseDirectory:from:, in MorphicUIManager, the code is using FileList but now we have the PSUIManager version) - last unrelated question, I've also seen that ListParagraph is never used, can we remove it ? now I am about to see how to kill MVCMenuMorph cheers alain

Feb. 8, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [ANN] update 10230

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > 10230 > Issue 506: fix: remove #baseUniclass > Issue 508: fix: clean StandardScriptingSystem more > Issue 507: remove #setNumericValue: > > stopping for now :) > > Stef > > >

Feb. 8, 2009

[Pharo-project] MIME Bug in 10229

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

When you drag and drop a cs file you get a DN callGetMimeTypeOrNilForFileExtension: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=510 Stef

Feb. 8, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] 10229 Network reorganization

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi we harvested the network reorganization of mike (with MCConfig is was much easier than expected). So mike can you tell us if this is ok from your point of view. Stef and Marcus

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Presentation

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Alex, It seems this version looks quite the same like the one you posted the first time. Anyway, here some feedback. Slide 2: - update mechanism? I don't understand why that is important. Rather I would expect to see "VM" or "runtime environment" - nobody will understand what OB or Polymorph means. Maybe "IDE, e.g., code completion and highlighting, powerful debugger"? Slide 6 and following: - it would be nice to use a good, larger font Slide 9: does not look too inviting with all the buttons and some of them half hidden Slide 10: mentions 3 tools but shows 4 windows. What is what? Slide 20: I suggest linking to the web page, as I mentioned before Cheers, Adrian On Feb 5, 2009, at 18:21 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Dear List, > > I made up few slides about Pharo. The goal is to give in less than > 30 minutes the essence of Pharo. > Please, shot at me, I like that :-) > > I provide the .keynote upon request. > > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > <Pharo.pdf>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About the download page

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Hernan, Thanks for the feedback and updating that page. Please note that: - There is no release of Pharo yet, not even a beta version is out, which means that a lot of work, including the web site, is work in progress - The google project is for Pharo core developers, while www.pharo-project.org is for its users If you like to further help with instructions for the google project or the web page, you're welcome! Cheers, Adrian On Feb 8, 2009, at 18:40 , HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > Possibly, a one-click image could lighten the initial cognitive > load to > start using Pharo, but being a begginer do not should imply he must > download > a specific version, to be careful in this sense means recommend and > not > impose. One can be a begginer in Pharo but not in Smalltalk, or a > begginer > with an exploratory mentality, and this exploration could be > directed by > specific interests (business, research, etc), so I can be a begginer > in > Pharo and want to see alternatives in the first place. > Anyway, I've updated the page > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Downloads?tm=2 > Best regards > > HernÃ¡n > > 2009/2/8 Michael Rueger <m.rueger(a)acm.org> > >> wouldn't most of the problems fixed by pointing beginners to the one >> click version of Pharo? >> >> Michael >> >> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:14 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand >> <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Let's suppose I'm a first visitor reading this page: >>> >>> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Downloads?tm=2 >>> >>> " ... A link is given below to get the image ... " >>> There are various links below, specifically what is that link? >> (Suggestion: >>> anchor the link word) >>> >>> " ... You can either upgrade your image ... " >>> Any hint or link explaining how? >>> >>> " ... The virtual machine may be downloaded from ... " >>> Suggestion: >>> " ... The virtual machine [for the X Operating System] may be >>> downloaded >>> from ... " and then >>> "The virtual machine [for the Y Operating System] may be >>> downloaded from >> ... >>> " >>> >>> " ... The lastest VM available ... " >>> " ... The latest VM available ... " (typo) >>> >>> " Pharo files are still hosted at the Pharo INRIA project site. " >>> From an user point of view I don't know why that would be relevant. >>> >>> " Please head over to http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299 " >>> To get the image ? the image and VM ? to choose downloading >>> options ? >>> (what I mean is that isn't clear the "image" reference at the >>> beggining >> of >>> page refers to this link or the "specific files" link below). >>> >>> " Here are some links to specific files: >>> Pharo Core: Pharo0.1Core-10204.zip " >>> Suggestion: >>> " If you want to do/have/use X, you can download Pharo Core... " >>> " If you want to do/have/use Y, you can download Pharo >>> Developer... " >>> etc. >>> >>> Final notes: >>> -There is no "Installation instructions" guidelines or link, this >> commonly >>> is: "When download is completed, uncompress.... get a >>> mysterious .sources >>> file, and then copy the .exe there......" >>> -Still remain assumptions for a first visitor, like he already >>> knows what >> is >>> an image, a virtual machine. Many first visitors are outsiders and >>> they >>> download first, read later (show me don't tell me). My suggestion >>> is to >>> provide a link/page in key words "image", "virtual machine", I guess >> there >>> are many sites where this is explained easily; and a reference >>> link, to >> the >>> SqueakByExample book for example, for people who wants to read more. >>> Just a couple of suggestions. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> HernÃ¡n >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 8, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] updates

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

10227 Some Etoy cleaning - ActorState removal - uniqueReferences... 10228 Monticello merged loader changes (mike rueger) MonticelloConfigurations merged with impara MonticelloConfigurations- jl.43 mainly adds "atomic" loading ScriptLoader adding configuration map loading support Stef, Marcus and Gwenael (sprinting at Stef's place)

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About the download page

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Possibly, a one-click image could lighten the initial cognitive load to start using Pharo, but being a begginer do not should imply he must download a specific version, to be careful in this sense means recommend and not impose. One can be a begginer in Pharo but not in Smalltalk, or a begginer with an exploratory mentality, and this exploration could be directed by specific interests (business, research, etc), so I can be a begginer in Pharo and want to see alternatives in the first place. Anyway, I've updated the page http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Downloads?tm=2 Best regards HernÃ¡n 2009/2/8 Michael Rueger <m.rueger(a)acm.org> > wouldn't most of the problems fixed by pointing beginners to the one > click version of Pharo? > > Michael > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:14 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand > <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Let's suppose I'm a first visitor reading this page: > > > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Downloads?tm=2 > > > > " ... A link is given below to get the image ... " > > There are various links below, specifically what is that link? > (Suggestion: > > anchor the link word) > > > > " ... You can either upgrade your image ... " > > Any hint or link explaining how? > > > > " ... The virtual machine may be downloaded from ... " > > Suggestion: > > " ... The virtual machine [for the X Operating System] may be downloaded > > from ... " and then > > "The virtual machine [for the Y Operating System] may be downloaded from > ... > > " > > > > " ... The lastest VM available ... " > > " ... The latest VM available ... " (typo) > > > > " Pharo files are still hosted at the Pharo INRIA project site. " > > From an user point of view I don't know why that would be relevant. > > > > " Please head over to http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299 " > > To get the image ? the image and VM ? to choose downloading options ? > > (what I mean is that isn't clear the "image" reference at the beggining > of > > page refers to this link or the "specific files" link below). > > > > " Here are some links to specific files: > > Pharo Core: Pharo0.1Core-10204.zip " > > Suggestion: > > " If you want to do/have/use X, you can download Pharo Core... " > > " If you want to do/have/use Y, you can download Pharo Developer... " > > etc. > > > > Final notes: > > -There is no "Installation instructions" guidelines or link, this > commonly > > is: "When download is completed, uncompress.... get a mysterious .sources > > file, and then copy the .exe there......" > > -Still remain assumptions for a first visitor, like he already knows what > is > > an image, a virtual machine. Many first visitors are outsiders and they > > download first, read later (show me don't tell me). My suggestion is to > > provide a link/page in key words "image", "virtual machine", I guess > there > > are many sites where this is explained easily; and a reference link, to > the > > SqueakByExample book for example, for people who wants to read more. > > Just a couple of suggestions. > > > > Cheers > > > > HernÃ¡n > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 8, 2009

[Pharo-project] Concerning issue #264

by Igor Stasenko

Hi Markus, i have some comments about morphs :) To my personal feel, a drop shadow feature (and all what is connected with it) is quite controversial, i don't think its worth promoting hasDropShadow shadowOffset to ivars. Instead, i think its worth demoting these ones to a void! :) Can anyone tell me why morph (and moreover - canvas) should be aware of a shadows effect? And what if i want a glow effect instead? Will you extend/expand both morphs/canvas protocol to support it too? Will you sacrifice ivars for it? :) What if tomorrow i want another myCoolSpecialEffect to be there? Will you force a Morph and Canvas be aware of that? I think no. I think all special effects should be a) removed b) reintroduced using different means. No Morph (abstract class) should be aware of any special effects, like it currently hardcoded in #fullDrawOn: self hasDropShadow ifTrue: [self drawDropShadowOn: aCanvas]. (self hasRolloverBorder and: [(aCanvas seesNothingOutside: self bounds) not]) ifTrue: [self drawRolloverBorderOn: aCanvas]. i think such code is candidate for removal. Instead, if we need to, we could simply put: self drawSpecialEffectsOn: aCanvas. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Feb. 8, 2009