Which one should I download?
I'd like to download the latest Pharo 3 on the CI server but I don't know which one I should download? The last one on the list?
none just download this one: http://files.pharo.org/image/30/latest.zip is always the latest effective build. Esteban On 25 Feb 2014, at 21:05, François Stephany <tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to download the latest Pharo 3 on the CI server but I don't know which one I should download?
The last one on the list? <Screen Shot 2014-02-25 at 21.03.07.png>
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back. Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ? thanks I'll go back to my older 3.0 candidate for now ... R On 25 February 2014 19:02, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
none
just download this one:
http://files.pharo.org/image/30/latest.zip
is always the latest effective build.
Esteban
On 25 Feb 2014, at 21:05, François Stephany <tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to download the latest Pharo 3 on the CI server but I don't know which one I should download?
The last one on the list? <Screen Shot 2014-02-25 at 21.03.07.png>
Nautilus is not unstable. That should not be happening and in fact I cannot reproduce it. Please report. On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
thanks
I'll go back to my older 3.0 candidate for now ...
R
On 25 February 2014 19:02, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: none
just download this one:
http://files.pharo.org/image/30/latest.zip
is always the latest effective build.
Esteban
On 25 Feb 2014, at 21:05, François Stephany <tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to download the latest Pharo 3 on the CI server but I don't know which one I should download?
The last one on the list? <Screen Shot 2014-02-25 at 21.03.07.png>
and even if it would be unstable⦠issues needs to be always reported, is the only way to be aware :) On 26 Feb 2014, at 07:45, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
Nautilus is not unstable. That should not be happening and in fact I cannot reproduce it. Please report.
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
thanks
I'll go back to my older 3.0 candidate for now ...
R
On 25 February 2014 19:02, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: none
just download this one:
http://files.pharo.org/image/30/latest.zip
is always the latest effective build.
Esteban
On 25 Feb 2014, at 21:05, François Stephany <tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to download the latest Pharo 3 on the CI server but I don't know which one I should download?
The last one on the list? <Screen Shot 2014-02-25 at 21.03.07.png>
"And in fact" I hit another walkback before I could reproduce it in a fresh 3.0 beta install On 26 February 2014 02:49, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
and even if it would be unstable⦠issues needs to be always reported, is the only way to be aware :)
On 26 Feb 2014, at 07:45, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
Nautilus is not unstable. That should not be happening and in fact I cannot reproduce it. Please report.
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
thanks
I'll go back to my older 3.0 candidate for now ...
R
On 25 February 2014 19:02, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
none
just download this one:
http://files.pharo.org/image/30/latest.zip
is always the latest effective build.
Esteban
On 25 Feb 2014, at 21:05, François Stephany <tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to download the latest Pharo 3 on the CI server but I don't know which one I should download?
The last one on the list? <Screen Shot 2014-02-25 at 21.03.07.png>
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific. BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible. Sven
this was a new image and all I was doing was bringing up the System Browser I have run Pharo on this old XP SP 3.1 laptop on my writing desk for a few years now ... it was disappointing to encounter, as I am expecting Pharo3 next month and then in April, the next WIndows 8, so I sort of had in mind that this sort of thing was not there ... no method had been changed, nothing had been executed with CTRL-D in a workspace ... strictly the most basic sort of sanity check, and that only because I am not used to just copying down latest.zip I will look to reproduce now. R On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
hit another walkback first screenshot attached this must be Windows XP 3.1 issue ... On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
Latest VM from Zeroconf gives: 'NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Feb 25 2014 NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Feb 25 2014 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: 66f4cf9345ba43bc232646d59b5e9369c369caba Date: 2014-02-25 11:45:12 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> Jenkins build #14806 ' Yours appear to be much older. I have a spare XP laptop on my other desk, I'll give it a shot. Phil On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:51 PM, <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
Hi Robert,
I am on Windows 7 SP1 so am probably in a good position to try to replicate. Trying to align with your screen snapshot this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded and launched fresh image build 30782 with PharoLauncher. 2. Clicked World > System Browser 3. Clicked on Announcements-View, AnnouncementSpy, [class-side] checkbox, instance creation, openOn:, [class-side] checkbox and all is fine. Can you detail where your test procedure differs from that? -----
Do you have any startup scripts under C:\Users\$yourAccount\AppData\Roaming\pharo or have you saved any preferences. (btw, if there a command line option to avoid processing startup and preference files, it would be useful in this situation to remove doubt?)
I can't think where a difference may lie except the operating system version. Can you know someone with Windows 7 or 8 your can test Pharo from a USB stick. -----
If I put (self haltOnce) at the top of EdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: a large amount of clicking around the <Class-side> cannot trigger the breakpoint. This only triggers if I drag edge of the Browser window to change its size. So is there some interaction that occurs with that in your testing? -----
Now it seems the problem is that _lastMouse_ instance is nil. Investigating shows this has only three relevant references (from the debugger, right-click on the variable in the bottom left pane and choose <List Methods Using "lastMouse". These are: * AbstractResizerMorph>>mouseDown: * EdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: * EdgeGripMorph>>mouseDown: - which overrides AbstractResizerMorph, so for our purposes there are only two relevant references to _lastMouse_ #mouseDown is the only method that stores into _lastMouse_ which is guaranteed to be non-nil since the collection is hardcoded. So it appears that #mouseDown should be called before #mouseMove and it is not.
Try putting the following code at the top of #mouseDown and #mouseMove Transcript crShow: thisContext printString , ' <-- ' , thisContext sender printString , ' (', lastMouse printString , ')'.
Then doing the following: 1. Clicked World > System Browser 2. Grabbed bottom edge and dragged up to make window smaller. I get... WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseDown: <-- WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseDown: (nil) WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseMove: <-- WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: ({(641@664). (432.0@3.0). (30@ -2.0)}) WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseMove: <-- WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: ({(641@663). (432.0@3.0). (30@ -2.0)}) WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseMove: <-- WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: ({(641@656). (432.0@3.0). (30@ -2.0)})
----- btw, my VM is same as yours... NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 7 2013 NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 7 2013 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: 71adca113a9aff2876288927e5c1c86bf7ac13e2 Date: 2013-12-07 05:00:47 -0800 By: Philippe Back <philippeback@gmail.com><philippeback@gmail.com>Jenkins build #14776
cheers -ben P.S. I've not encountered a problem like that with Nautilus in the past 3 months I've been using it - but different environments can dig out corner cases. Good luck.
Robert Shiplett wrote:
hit another walkback first
screenshot attached
this must be Windows XP 3.1 issue ...
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
------------------------------
I did a fresh 3.0 install when I got the latest walkback ... I had not even dropped in the files from latest.zip yet. I have insomnia, so please bear with me ... I should be asleep at this hour ... debug log attached BTW - Why are we not naming these log files for the image that was running when the log was written ? r On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
I tried a fresh Pharo-30782.image but I can not reproduce this errors. I am on a Windows 7 machine. When I am at home I can try to run this image on an older Windows XP machine. 2014-02-26 11:07 GMT+01:00 Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com>:
I did a fresh 3.0 install when I got the latest walkback ... I had not even dropped in the files from latest.zip yet.
I have insomnia, so please bear with me ... I should be asleep at this hour ...
debug log attached
BTW - Why are we not naming these log files for the image that was running when the log was written ?
r
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
and I will also now re-name this file output (see attached) On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
and maybe not easy to reproduce in 30782 On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
"BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community." This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ... I also received from another on the mail list "and in fact I cannot reproduce it." "And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired. It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw. I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ] ciao On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
"BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community."
This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ...
I also received from another on the mail list
"and in fact I cannot reproduce it."
"And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired.
it is not. it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. So, please⦠do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦
It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw.
The community is here. In this list. Around the list. Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for all⦠so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. We want to help you.
I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ]
Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you). Again, I try to help, as everybody in the community⦠but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :) Esteban
ciao
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
regardless ... I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback. At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience. Unstable. Sanity check for a Smalltalk image open a browser open a workspace flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ] AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ] Hunch ONLY : Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open Metacello browser the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so ) I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ... ciao r On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
"BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community."
This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ...
I also received from another on the mail list
"and in fact I cannot reproduce it."
"And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired.
it is not. it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. So, please⦠do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦
It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw.
The community is here. In this list. Around the list. Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for all⦠so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. We want to help you.
I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ]
Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you).
Again, I try to help, as everybody in the community⦠but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :)
Esteban
ciao
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
robert Are you sure that you really use the latest version? Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I could not reproduce this problem. So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the debuglog? And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so no need to be pushy it does not help. Stef On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
regardless ...
I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback
I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback.
At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience. Unstable.
Sanity check for a Smalltalk image
open a browser open a workspace flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ]
AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ]
Hunch ONLY :
Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open Metacello browser the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so )
I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ...
ciao
r
On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
"BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community."
This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ...
I also received from another on the mail list
"and in fact I cannot reproduce it."
"And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired.
it is not. it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. So, please⦠do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦
It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw.
The community is here. In this list. Around the list. Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for all⦠so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. We want to help you.
I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ]
Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you).
Again, I try to help, as everybody in the community⦠but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :)
Esteban
ciao
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
Pharo 3.0 on Windows 8.1 Installing and running Pharo 3.0 on a blank Windows 8.1 machine in under 1 minute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKokxrQtrg0 With an extra minute to demo some basic interactions. On 26 Feb 2014, at 14:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef@free.fr> wrote:
robert
Are you sure that you really use the latest version? Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I could not reproduce this problem. So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the debuglog? And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so no need to be pushy it does not help.
Stef
Stef I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install first the image with the install then quit and again drag-drop the numbered image from latest.zip as copied in by me manually ( only manual step after target dir named for install ) I have some neuro-motor issues now, but they mostly impact my typing skills ... there is only one EXE in the folder and I go slowly on the touchpad, so this is not on me in any obvious thumbs-fumble ( the only way I go now - slow and fumbliing ;-) Then I just do my most regular "flip about" routine ... we used to call it "kicking the tires" ... a pilot can have a pre-flight walk-around protocol because the design of the plane did not change since it last landed ;-) regards robert spelling via Google gmail On 26 February 2014 09:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef@free.fr> wrote:
robert
Are you sure that you really use the latest version? Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I could not reproduce this problem. So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the debuglog? And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so no need to be pushy it does not help.
Stef
On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
regardless ...
I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback
I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback.
At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience. Unstable.
Sanity check for a Smalltalk image
open a browser open a workspace flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ]
AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ]
Hunch ONLY :
Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open Metacello browser the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so )
I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ...
ciao
r
On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
"BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community."
This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ...
I also received from another on the mail list
"and in fact I cannot reproduce it."
"And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired.
it is not. it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. So, please⦠do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦
It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw.
The community is here. In this list. Around the list. Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for all⦠so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. We want to help you.
I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ]
Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you).
Again, I try to help, as everybody in the community⦠but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :)
Esteban
ciao
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:16, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
Stef
I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install
first the image with the install
then quit and again drag-drop the numbered image from latest.zip as copied in by me manually ( only manual step after target dir named for install )
I have some neuro-motor issues now, but they mostly impact my typing skills ... there is only one EXE in the folder and I go slowly on the touchpad, so this is not on me in any obvious thumbs-fumble ( the only way I go now - slow and fumbliing ;-)
Then I just do my most regular "flip about" routine ... we used to call it "kicking the tires" ... a pilot can have a pre-flight walk-around protocol because the design of the plane did not change since it last landed ;-)
Explain to us what you do exactly. Record a video if necessary. We want to chase these bugs if any. Stef
regards
robert spelling via Google gmail
On 26 February 2014 09:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef@free.fr> wrote: robert
Are you sure that you really use the latest version? Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I could not reproduce this problem. So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the debuglog? And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so no need to be pushy it does not help.
Stef
On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
regardless ...
I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback
I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback.
At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience. Unstable.
Sanity check for a Smalltalk image
open a browser open a workspace flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ]
AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ]
Hunch ONLY :
Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open Metacello browser the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so )
I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ...
ciao
r
On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
"BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community."
This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ...
I also received from another on the mail list
"and in fact I cannot reproduce it."
"And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired.
it is not. it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. So, please⦠do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦
It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw.
The community is here. In this list. Around the list. Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for all⦠so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. We want to help you.
I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ]
Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you).
Again, I try to help, as everybody in the community⦠but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :)
Esteban
ciao
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
I go to our web site pharo-project.org I click on the 3.0 beta option and take the WIN installer ; I select the download from the browser once completed I unzip to an alpha-suffixed NEW directory such as Pharo3.0-win-BETA-C I check the README.txt in notepad++ I drag the image onto the exe ; run a sanity check ; quit without daving I go get latest.zip and unzip in a new folder in my downloads temp area I manually drag the two unzipped files from that new dir in the temp area into the new test Pharo dir, e.g., C:\Pharo3.0-win-BETA-C\Pharo 3.0\ I drag the new image with its suffixed-number-name onto pharo.exe I do a sanity check My last check reveals that the desktop/world menu item Send top window to back ( the one ending with the SLASH char ) has no effect But the same action on a window from upper right menu does have an effect Is that known ? I have now had the fatal error on both XP and on Win7 with Sp1 on a nice quad core with 16 GB RAM and a huge drive ( my home office work/dev box, not my writing desk laptop ) If the beta on the home page is not the current beta (prev night's build or latest good build), then we are making some of us useless as beta testers ... or at least this one beta tester exasperated ;-) best reagrds, Robert Canada On 26 February 2014 15:04, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef@free.fr> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:16, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
Stef
I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install
first the image with the install
then quit and again drag-drop the numbered image from latest.zip as copied in by me manually ( only manual step after target dir named for install )
I have some neuro-motor issues now, but they mostly impact my typing skills ... there is only one EXE in the folder and I go slowly on the touchpad, so this is not on me in any obvious thumbs-fumble ( the only way I go now - slow and fumbliing ;-)
Then I just do my most regular "flip about" routine ... we used to call it "kicking the tires" ... a pilot can have a pre-flight walk-around protocol because the design of the plane did not change since it last landed ;-)
Explain to us what you do exactly. Record a video if necessary. We want to chase these bugs if any.
Stef
regards
robert spelling via Google gmail
On 26 February 2014 09:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef@free.fr> wrote:
robert
Are you sure that you really use the latest version? Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I could not reproduce this problem. So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the debuglog? And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so no need to be pushy it does not help.
Stef
On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
regardless ...
I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback
I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback.
At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience. Unstable.
Sanity check for a Smalltalk image
open a browser open a workspace flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ]
AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ]
Hunch ONLY :
Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open Metacello browser the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so )
I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ...
ciao
r
On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
"BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community."
This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ...
I also received from another on the mail list
"and in fact I cannot reproduce it."
"And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired.
it is not. it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. So, please⦠do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦
It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw.
The community is here. In this list. Around the list. Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for all⦠so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. We want to help you.
I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ]
Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you).
Again, I try to help, as everybody in the community⦠but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :)
Esteban
ciao
On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett@gmail.com> wrote:
I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI
update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil
I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back.
Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ?
I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific.
BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible.
Sven
Hello, Just did a check on Windows 8.1 with Zeroconf on the latest 3.0 and vm and it all works while doing the "kick the tires" procedure (doing this from my MINGW32/MSYS env). One issue tough is that Avast Antivirus gives a problem the first time I ran the VM as it was "deepscreening" the exe and this led to a VM crashed message. Restarting pharo-ui didn't exhibited the issue. Screenshot attached. HTH Phil (... who paid the Consortium fee... :-p )
that problematic latest.zip contains -30782 files R On 25 February 2014 19:02, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
none
just download this one:
http://files.pharo.org/image/30/latest.zip
is always the latest effective build.
Esteban
On 25 Feb 2014, at 21:05, François Stephany <tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to download the latest Pharo 3 on the CI server but I don't know which one I should download?
The last one on the list? <Screen Shot 2014-02-25 at 21.03.07.png>
participants (8)
-
btc＠openinworld.com -
Esteban Lorenzano -
François Stephany -
Nicolai Hess -
Pharo4Stef -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Robert Shiplett -
Sven Van Caekenberghe