Paul, The library is 32 bit - I build it from source because it ships with 64 bit binaries. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Paul DeBruicker [pdebruic@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:59 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote

Eliot,

I'm getting the same error with your latest VM. Any ideas?

Bill

When I had trouble with this it was a 64bit vs 32bit library mismatch on a 64bit OS. Is it a 32 bit or 64 bit OS? Is the library you're trying to reach 32bit? 64bit libs won't work with the 32bit CogVM, but are installed by default by the Ubuntu package manager on a 64bit Ubuntu. Ubuntu also moved some mandatory (from Cog's perspectvie) 32 bit libs from their ia32-libs package to the ia32-libs-multiarch recently but I don't know if that change affects Lucid. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cog-linux-external-module-not-found-tp4271136p4271354.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Eliot, There is no /lib32 or /usr/lib32. As a double check, locate lib32 returns nothing. I put the library in /usr/lib, which is what I have done on two other Lucid systems. ldconfig shows it registered there. What's next? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:29 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Paul, The library is 32 bit - I build it from source because it ships with 64 bit binaries. Then try changing your LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /lib32:/usr/lib32:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH and see if that helps (if you have /lib32 & /usr/lib32 that is) Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Paul DeBruicker [pdebruic@gmail.com<mailto:pdebruic@gmail.com>] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:59 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote

Eliot,

I'm getting the same error with your latest VM. Any ideas?

Bill

When I had trouble with this it was a 64bit vs 32bit library mismatch on a 64bit OS. Is it a 32 bit or 64 bit OS? Is the library you're trying to reach 32bit? 64bit libs won't work with the 32bit CogVM, but are installed by default by the Ubuntu package manager on a 64bit Ubuntu. Ubuntu also moved some mandatory (from Cog's perspectvie) 32 bit libs from their ia32-libs package to the ia32-libs-multiarch recently but I don't know if that change affects Lucid. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cog-linux-external-module-not-found-tp4271136p4271354.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- best, Eliot

BTW, Eliot, is there a way so that FFI throws something different from "Module not found" when the module is there but not 32 bits? like "Module found but it is not 32 bits" ? cheers On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Nick Ager <nick.ager@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Bill,

Have you tried strace to determine what library it's failing to load?

Nick

On 7 January 2012 03:26, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

...

Eliot,

There is no /lib32 or /usr/lib32. As a double check,

locate lib32

returns nothing. I put the library in /usr/lib, which is what I have done on two other Lucid systems. ldconfig shows it registered there.

What's next?

Bill

------------------------------ *From:* pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [ eliot.miranda@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2012 7:29 PM

*To:* Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>wrote:

...

Paul,

The library is 32 bit - I build it from source because it ships with 64 bit binaries.

Then try changing your LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /lib32:/usr/lib32:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH and see if that helps (if you have /lib32 & /usr/lib32 that is)

...

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Paul DeBruicker [pdebruic@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:59 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote

...

Eliot,

I'm getting the same error with your latest VM. Any ideas?

Bill

When I had trouble with this it was a 64bit vs 32bit library mismatch on a 64bit OS.

Is it a 32 bit or 64 bit OS? Is the library you're trying to reach 32bit? 64bit libs won't work with the 32bit CogVM, but are installed by default by the Ubuntu package manager on a 64bit Ubuntu.

Ubuntu also moved some mandatory (from Cog's perspectvie) 32 bit libs from their ia32-libs package to the ia32-libs-multiarch recently but I don't know if that change affects Lucid.

-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cog-linux-external-module-not-found-tp4271136p4271354.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- best, Eliot

-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Nick, Partial success. After a false start with getting output from strace (my fault), it showed me that the vm was looking a lot in the vm's directory. A symlink by the same name, allowed it to see the library. Clearly, this is not a fix, because one should not be forced to make links to any/every library on the system. However, it *was* nice to see the version string in an inspector :) Looking at the strace output (relevant parts below), it tries with prepending lib, appending .so, .so.dylib. It looks in the vm's directory, and in the root directory, not /usr/lib. It has been almost a year (based on a dated comment) since I last really strained my synapses on the workings of ldconfig. On my systems, it would tell one to look for the library as follows: ldconfig -p | grep Acces libAccesIO-USB.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/libAccesIO-USB.so #moduleName answers 'libAccesIO-USB.so', and Ian's vm finds it. My (and I use the term LOOSELY) understanding is that Ubuntu no longer uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH. dlopen() seems to prefer that one use the names as reported by ldconfig. The best explanation I have found is that the change was a security measure. How does one get ldconfig to "know" where something lives? Putting a .so file in /usr/lib (and perhaps other places too) and then running ldconfig as sudo appears to build a cache. Then ldconfig -p (anyone can run this) will show the map, and one can grep the result to find something specifc, as above. Putting files in /usr/lib is a pain for things under active development. A file can live anywhere if one puts a .conf file in /etc/ld.so.confd; the .conf files should contain paths to directories to be searched for .so files - or at least that's how it *appears* to work. Run ldconfig as sudo to refresh the mapping, and verify with ldconfig - p. The fix might be as simply as having the cog vm try passing the #moduleName to dlopen(). Nick, thanks for the nudge in a working direction. I will probably symlink another file and see if a mix of hardware and software will get closer to cooperating with me. Bill stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./libAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("libAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/libAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/libAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) read(10, ">externalCallFailed\nAccesIOUSBLi"..., 3424) = 3424 read(10, ">externalCallFailed\nAccesIOUSBLi"..., 4096) = 3424 write(10, "FileAccess: ", 12) = 12 write(10, "SocketAccess: ", 14) = 14 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "#'Hardware-AccesIO'", 19) = 19 write(10, "\t\ttextOrStream: \t'\t^AccesIOUSBLi"..., 65) = 65 write(10, "\t^ AccesIOUSBLibrary default AIO"..., 46) = 46 write(10, "a ReadStream '\t^AccesIOUSBLibrar"..., 61) = 61 write(10, "\t^AccesIOUSBLibrar...etc...", 27) = 27 write(10, "\t^AccesIOUSBLibrar...etc...", 27) = 27 write(10, "\t^AccesIOUSBLibrary defau...etc."..., 34) = 34 ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 8:55 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found It would also be nice to see (either via syslog()/OutputDebugString()) or (if possible) in the error itself, what library (full path) was being loaded. The output will generally be of interest only when something fails. Similar comments would apply to serial ports that won't open - what did the vm actually try to do when something failed? Most problems that I have had with getting Pharo to open something (library or port) have been relatively obvious to solve as soon as I saw how my intent was translated before it was passed on to the hardware (e.g. /usr/lib//this/that/something.so). Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Mariano Martinez Peck [marianopeck@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 5:20 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found BTW, Eliot, is there a way so that FFI throws something different from "Module not found" when the module is there but not 32 bits? like "Module found but it is not 32 bits" ? cheers On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Nick Ager <nick.ager@gmail.com<mailto:nick.ager@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Bill, Have you tried strace to determine what library it's failing to load? Nick On 7 January 2012 03:26, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Eliot, There is no /lib32 or /usr/lib32. As a double check, locate lib32 returns nothing. I put the library in /usr/lib, which is what I have done on two other Lucid systems. ldconfig shows it registered there. What's next? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:29 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Paul, The library is 32 bit - I build it from source because it ships with 64 bit binaries. Then try changing your LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /lib32:/usr/lib32:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH and see if that helps (if you have /lib32 & /usr/lib32 that is) Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Paul DeBruicker [pdebruic@gmail.com<mailto:pdebruic@gmail.com>] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:59 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote

Eliot,

I'm getting the same error with your latest VM. Any ideas?

Bill

When I had trouble with this it was a 64bit vs 32bit library mismatch on a 64bit OS. Is it a 32 bit or 64 bit OS? Is the library you're trying to reach 32bit? 64bit libs won't work with the 32bit CogVM, but are installed by default by the Ubuntu package manager on a 64bit Ubuntu. Ubuntu also moved some mandatory (from Cog's perspectvie) 32 bit libs from their ia32-libs package to the ia32-libs-multiarch recently but I don't know if that change affects Lucid. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cog-linux-external-module-not-found-tp4271136p4271354.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- best, Eliot -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Eliot, SOL?? Is that really the message we want to send to current and *prospective* users? Canonical does something that makes sense from a security perspective (one needs root privileges to alter the ldconfig mapping, not to to use it). All the vm needs to do is request the #moduleName as given, and users of Pharo "SOL" as a result? Please reconsider. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Nick, Partial success. After a false start with getting output from strace (my fault), it showed me that the vm was looking a lot in the vm's directory. A symlink by the same name, allowed it to see the library. Clearly, this is not a fix, because one should not be forced to make links to any/every library on the system. However, it *was* nice to see the version string in an inspector :) Looking at the strace output (relevant parts below), it tries with prepending lib, appending .so, .so.dylib. It looks in the vm's directory, and in the root directory, not /usr/lib. It has been almost a year (based on a dated comment) since I last really strained my synapses on the workings of ldconfig. On my systems, it would tell one to look for the library as follows: ldconfig -p | grep Acces libAccesIO-USB.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/libAccesIO-USB.so #moduleName answers 'libAccesIO-USB.so', and Ian's vm finds it. My (and I use the term LOOSELY) understanding is that Ubuntu no longer uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH. dlopen() seems to prefer that one use the names as reported by ldconfig. The best explanation I have found is that the change was a security measure. Then you're SOL :) You'd need to write new support for Ubuntu. How does one get ldconfig to "know" where something lives? Putting a .so file in /usr/lib (and perhaps other places too) and then running ldconfig as sudo appears to build a cache. Then ldconfig -p (anyone can run this) will show the map, and one can grep the result to find something specifc, as above. Putting files in /usr/lib is a pain for things under active development. A file can live anywhere if one puts a .conf file in /etc/ld.so.confd; the .conf files should contain paths to directories to be searched for .so files - or at least that's how it *appears* to work. Run ldconfig as sudo to refresh the mapping, and verify with ldconfig - p. The fix might be as simply as having the cog vm try passing the #moduleName to dlopen(). Nick, thanks for the nudge in a working direction. I will probably symlink another file and see if a mix of hardware and software will get closer to cooperating with me. Bill stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://libAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./libAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://libAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("./liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("libAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://libAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/libAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://libAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/libAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/libAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://libAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/libAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/liblibAccesIO-USB.so", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so<http://liblibAccesIO-USB.so.so>", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) stat64("/home/bills/Work2010/Pharo-1.1.1/libAccesIO-USB.so/.libs/liblibAccesIO-USB.so.dylib", 0xbfd66c5c) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) read(10, ">externalCallFailed\nAccesIOUSBLi"..., 3424) = 3424 read(10, ">externalCallFailed\nAccesIOUSBLi"..., 4096) = 3424 write(10, "FileAccess: ", 12) = 12 write(10, "SocketAccess: ", 14) = 14 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "an AccesIOUSBLibrary", 20) = 20 write(10, "'libAccesIO-USB.so'", 19) = 19 write(10, "#'Hardware-AccesIO'", 19) = 19 write(10, "\t\ttextOrStream: \t'\t^AccesIOUSBLi"..., 65) = 65 write(10, "\t^ AccesIOUSBLibrary default AIO"..., 46) = 46 write(10, "a ReadStream '\t^AccesIOUSBLibrar"..., 61) = 61 write(10, "\t^AccesIOUSBLibrar...etc...", 27) = 27 write(10, "\t^AccesIOUSBLibrar...etc...", 27) = 27 write(10, "\t^AccesIOUSBLibrary defau...etc."..., 34) = 34 ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 8:55 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found It would also be nice to see (either via syslog()/OutputDebugString()) or (if possible) in the error itself, what library (full path) was being loaded. The output will generally be of interest only when something fails. Similar comments would apply to serial ports that won't open - what did the vm actually try to do when something failed? Most problems that I have had with getting Pharo to open something (library or port) have been relatively obvious to solve as soon as I saw how my intent was translated before it was passed on to the hardware (e.g. /usr/lib//this/that/something.so). Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Mariano Martinez Peck [marianopeck@gmail.com<mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com>] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 5:20 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found BTW, Eliot, is there a way so that FFI throws something different from "Module not found" when the module is there but not 32 bits? like "Module found but it is not 32 bits" ? cheers On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Nick Ager <nick.ager@gmail.com<mailto:nick.ager@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Bill, Have you tried strace to determine what library it's failing to load? Nick On 7 January 2012 03:26, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Eliot, There is no /lib32 or /usr/lib32. As a double check, locate lib32 returns nothing. I put the library in /usr/lib, which is what I have done on two other Lucid systems. ldconfig shows it registered there. What's next? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:29 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Paul, The library is 32 bit - I build it from source because it ships with 64 bit binaries. Then try changing your LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /lib32:/usr/lib32:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH and see if that helps (if you have /lib32 & /usr/lib32 that is) Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Paul DeBruicker [pdebruic@gmail.com<mailto:pdebruic@gmail.com>] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:59 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote

Eliot,

I'm getting the same error with your latest VM. Any ideas?

Bill

When I had trouble with this it was a 64bit vs 32bit library mismatch on a 64bit OS. Is it a 32 bit or 64 bit OS? Is the library you're trying to reach 32bit? 64bit libs won't work with the 32bit CogVM, but are installed by default by the Ubuntu package manager on a 64bit Ubuntu. Ubuntu also moved some mandatory (from Cog's perspectvie) 32 bit libs from their ia32-libs package to the ia32-libs-multiarch recently but I don't know if that change affects Lucid. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Cog-linux-external-module-not-found-tp4271136p4271354.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- best, Eliot -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com -- best, Eliot

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:16 PM, David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com> wrote:

On Sun, Jan 08, 2012 at 12:37:59AM +0000, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Eliot,

SOL?? Is that really the message we want to send to current and *prospective* users? Canonical does something that makes sense from a security perspective (one needs root privileges to alter the ldconfig mapping, not to to use it). All the vm needs to do is request the #moduleName as given, and users of Pharo "SOL" as a result?

Please reconsider.

Bill

I think you are taking the response out of context. The actual statement was "Then you're SOL :) You'd need to write new support for Ubuntu."

You might take that as a gentle suggestion to expend a bit of effort on it yourself. After all, it is open source, and Eliot is only one person. He can't do everything for everybody without a little help from the rest of us.

quite. i don't even have an ubuntu VM, let alone the time to work on it. Bill, instead of whining, pitch in, please.

Dave

...

________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [

pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [ eliot.miranda@gmail.com]

...

Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu <mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Nick,

Partial success. After a false start with getting output from strace (my fault), it showed me that the vm was looking a lot in the vm's directory. A symlink by the same name, allowed it to see the library. Clearly, this is not a fix, because one should not be forced to make links to any/every library on the system. However, it *was* nice to see the version string in an inspector :)

Looking at the strace output (relevant parts below), it tries with prepending lib, appending .so, .so.dylib. It looks in the vm's directory, and in the root directory, not /usr/lib.

It has been almost a year (based on a dated comment) since I last really strained my synapses on the workings of ldconfig. On my systems, it would tell one to look for the library as follows:

ldconfig -p | grep Acces libAccesIO-USB.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/libAccesIO-USB.so

#moduleName answers 'libAccesIO-USB.so', and Ian's vm finds it. My (and I use the term LOOSELY) understanding is that Ubuntu no longer uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH. dlopen() seems to prefer that one use the names as reported by ldconfig. The best explanation I have found is that the change was a security measure.

Then you're SOL :) You'd need to write new support for Ubuntu.

How does one get ldconfig to "know" where something lives? Putting a .so file in /usr/lib (and perhaps other places too) and then running ldconfig as sudo appears to build a cache. Then ldconfig -p (anyone can run this) will show the map, and one can grep the result to find something specifc, as above.

Putting files in /usr/lib is a pain for things under active development. A file can live anywhere if one puts a .conf file in /etc/ld.so.confd; the .conf files should contain paths to directories to be searched for .so files - or at least that's how it *appears* to work. Run ldconfig as sudo to refresh the mapping, and verify with ldconfig - p.

The fix might be as simply as having the cog vm try passing the #moduleName to dlopen().

Nick, thanks for the nudge in a working direction. I will probably symlink another file and see if a mix of hardware and software will get closer to cooperating with me.

Bill

-- best, Eliot

I'm definitely not interested in help from someone who flies off the handle like this. Plonk. On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>wrote:

Eliot,

Whining - that's a bit much. In fact it is TOTALLY unjustified.

Last year, I spent (end to end) months learning how to get away from creating my own hacked vms - that's how I knew about ldconfig's behavior , and have come to appreciate that Canonical got this one right.

Recently, I spent hours running down why Cog fails to find properly installed libraries on a major Linux platform. I'd say that's "pitching in." It sure isn't whining!!

Am I certain of all the details of what should happen and why? No. Am I the best person to tell the vm to stop looking here/there/everywhere and just use the module name as given? Certainly not. I *thought* you might want to do that yourself, so it gets done properly.

I also thought you might appreciate some help in debugging a problem. Instead you tell me that I am an SOL whiner. Not good.

Bill

------------------------------ *From:* pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [ eliot.miranda@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 09, 2012 1:34 PM

*To:* Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:16 PM, David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com>wrote:

...

On Sun, Jan 08, 2012 at 12:37:59AM +0000, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Eliot,

SOL?? Is that really the message we want to send to current and *prospective* users? Canonical does something that makes sense from a security perspective (one needs root privileges to alter the ldconfig mapping, not to to use it). All the vm needs to do is request the #moduleName as given, and users of Pharo "SOL" as a result?

Please reconsider.

Bill

I think you are taking the response out of context. The actual statement was "Then you're SOL :) You'd need to write new support for Ubuntu."

You might take that as a gentle suggestion to expend a bit of effort on it yourself. After all, it is open source, and Eliot is only one person. He can't do everything for everybody without a little help from the rest of us.

quite. i don't even have an ubuntu VM, let alone the time to work on it. Bill, instead of whining, pitch in, please.

...

Dave

...

________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [

pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [ eliot.miranda@gmail.com]

...

Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K < bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Nick,

Partial success. After a false start with getting output from strace (my fault), it showed me that the vm was looking a lot in the vm's directory. A symlink by the same name, allowed it to see the library. Clearly, this is not a fix, because one should not be forced to make links to any/every library on the system. However, it *was* nice to see the version string in an inspector :)

Looking at the strace output (relevant parts below), it tries with prepending lib, appending .so, .so.dylib. It looks in the vm's directory, and in the root directory, not /usr/lib.

It has been almost a year (based on a dated comment) since I last really strained my synapses on the workings of ldconfig. On my systems, it would tell one to look for the library as follows:

ldconfig -p | grep Acces libAccesIO-USB.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/libAccesIO-USB.so

#moduleName answers 'libAccesIO-USB.so', and Ian's vm finds it. My (and I use the term LOOSELY) understanding is that Ubuntu no longer uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH. dlopen() seems to prefer that one use the names as reported by ldconfig. The best explanation I have found is that the change was a security measure.

Then you're SOL :) You'd need to write new support for Ubuntu.

How does one get ldconfig to "know" where something lives? Putting a .so file in /usr/lib (and perhaps other places too) and then running ldconfig as sudo appears to build a cache. Then ldconfig -p (anyone can run this) will show the map, and one can grep the result to find something specifc, as above.

Putting files in /usr/lib is a pain for things under active development. A file can live anywhere if one puts a .conf file in /etc/ld.so.confd; the .conf files should contain paths to directories to be searched for .so files - or at least that's how it *appears* to work. Run ldconfig as sudo to refresh the mapping, and verify with ldconfig - p.

The fix might be as simply as having the cog vm try passing the #moduleName to dlopen().

Nick, thanks for the nudge in a working direction. I will probably symlink another file and see if a mix of hardware and software will get closer to cooperating with me.

Bill

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

Hi guys I suggest that you both take a good and fresh air. I somehow learned some expressions I do not deeply understand but I prefer when I do not learn them :). I could not get SOL Wikipedia fails on it: Le sol représente la couche superficielle, meuble, de la croûte terrestre, résultant de la transformation de la roche mère, enrichie par des apports organiques. … I knew that one :) I'm sure that if you would be around a cup of coffee you would not react like that. I can understand both situations and I know by experience that email communication is not the best. Nobody likes to receive insults in his mailbox. So unplugged from keyboard even if I know how it is difficult :). Stef ZE Wise®

On Jan 9, 2012, at 8:25 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote:

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: Hi guys

I suggest that you both take a good and fresh air. I somehow learned some expressions I do not deeply understand but I prefer when I do not learn them :). I could not get SOL

"Shit out of luck."

:) Not sure my wife wants my kids to learn that but now I know more slang :)

Wikipedia fails on it: Le sol représente la couche superficielle, meuble, de la croûte terrestre, résultant de la transformation de la roche mère, enrichie par des apports organiques. … I knew that one :)

I'm sure that if you would be around a cup of coffee you would not react like that. I can understand both situations and I know by experience that email communication is not the best. Nobody likes to receive insults in his mailbox. So unplugged from keyboard even if I know how it is difficult :).

Stef ZE Wise®

-- best, Eliot

Eliot, Read Stef's email. Take note that I did the debugging "for you." Actually, I did it for all of us, for Pharo, for Smalltalk, and for Linux. That's not how someone with an attitude of entitlement acts. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 2:24 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me. No, Bill. I'm not interested in a public (or private) argument. But I am not flying off the handle. Your opening messages in this thread display a sense of entitlement, i..e that you expect me to debug and/or get Cog working underneath Pharo on the particular linux distro that you're using, You also display an ignorance of the community in stating "Is that really the message we want to send to current and *prospective* users?" when I'm only peripherally involved with Pharo; I wrote Cog, and work principally in Newspeak and Squeak. You then accuse me of flying off the handle, when it was you who used *'s and !!'s, not me. Either calm down or I'll have to put you in my kill file. When you start providing feedback like Levente, Mariano, Andreas et al, and stop demanding support I'll be interested in your collaboration, but right now our exchanges don't feel mutually beneficial. I'll not be responding to you further in this thread. Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it. ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 1:57 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found I'm definitely not interested in help from someone who flies off the handle like this. Plonk. On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Eliot, Whining - that's a bit much. In fact it is TOTALLY unjustified. Last year, I spent (end to end) months learning how to get away from creating my own hacked vms - that's how I knew about ldconfig's behavior , and have come to appreciate that Canonical got this one right. Recently, I spent hours running down why Cog fails to find properly installed libraries on a major Linux platform. I'd say that's "pitching in." It sure isn't whining!! Am I certain of all the details of what should happen and why? No. Am I the best person to tell the vm to stop looking here/there/everywhere and just use the module name as given? Certainly not. I *thought* you might want to do that yourself, so it gets done properly. I also thought you might appreciate some help in debugging a problem. Instead you tell me that I am an SOL whiner. Not good. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 1:34 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:16 PM, David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com<mailto:lewis@mail.msen.com>> wrote: On Sun, Jan 08, 2012 at 12:37:59AM +0000, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Eliot,

SOL?? Is that really the message we want to send to current and *prospective* users? Canonical does something that makes sense from a security perspective (one needs root privileges to alter the ldconfig mapping, not to to use it). All the vm needs to do is request the #moduleName as given, and users of Pharo "SOL" as a result?

Please reconsider.

Bill

I think you are taking the response out of context. The actual statement was "Then you're SOL :) You'd need to write new support for Ubuntu." You might take that as a gentle suggestion to expend a bit of effort on it yourself. After all, it is open source, and Eliot is only one person. He can't do everything for everybody without a little help from the rest of us. quite. i don't even have an ubuntu VM, let alone the time to work on it. Bill, instead of whining, pitch in, please. Dave

________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu><mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>>> wrote: Nick,

Partial success. After a false start with getting output from strace (my fault), it showed me that the vm was looking a lot in the vm's directory. A symlink by the same name, allowed it to see the library. Clearly, this is not a fix, because one should not be forced to make links to any/every library on the system. However, it *was* nice to see the version string in an inspector :)

Looking at the strace output (relevant parts below), it tries with prepending lib, appending .so, .so.dylib. It looks in the vm's directory, and in the root directory, not /usr/lib.

It has been almost a year (based on a dated comment) since I last really strained my synapses on the workings of ldconfig. On my systems, it would tell one to look for the library as follows:

ldconfig -p | grep Acces libAccesIO-USB.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/libAccesIO-USB.so

#moduleName answers 'libAccesIO-USB.so', and Ian's vm finds it. My (and I use the term LOOSELY) understanding is that Ubuntu no longer uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH. dlopen() seems to prefer that one use the names as reported by ldconfig. The best explanation I have found is that the change was a security measure.

Then you're SOL :) You'd need to write new support for Ubuntu.

How does one get ldconfig to "know" where something lives? Putting a .so file in /usr/lib (and perhaps other places too) and then running ldconfig as sudo appears to build a cache. Then ldconfig -p (anyone can run this) will show the map, and one can grep the result to find something specifc, as above.

Putting files in /usr/lib is a pain for things under active development. A file can live anywhere if one puts a .conf file in /etc/ld.so.confd; the .conf files should contain paths to directories to be searched for .so files - or at least that's how it *appears* to work. Run ldconfig as sudo to refresh the mapping, and verify with ldconfig - p.

The fix might be as simply as having the cog vm try passing the #moduleName to dlopen().

Nick, thanks for the nudge in a working direction. I will probably symlink another file and see if a mix of hardware and software will get closer to cooperating with me.

Bill

-- best, Eliot -- best, Eliot -- best, Eliot

It is common to discuss something before creating tracker entries, and I DID state what I think is wrong and proposed a solution. I've asked for a debate on the merits of the idea, aka, looking for the library where #moduleName says to look, respecting the behavior of dlopen on Ubuntu. I spent significant time researching this behavior, and have tried to share what I believe it all says we should be doing. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Sven Van Caekenberghe [sven@beta9.be] Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 3:36 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. I might be wrong, but I fail to find - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now. Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. My 2c, Sven

Sig, I *did* miss your proposal to move the logic, but it certainly makes sense and would (I have to think) be easier to debug and change than the current situation.

From my (mis)adventures more than a year ago, I learned that plugins are libraries, but libraries are not necessarily plugins. It is not an important distinction (mostly cosmetic), but the vm code *appeared* strongly biased toward plugins at the expense of arbitrary libraries.

Running with your idea, I would also suggest that we at least consider moving the mapping of serial port numbers and names into the image. Any time the vm translates a path/string/name/whatever and can't find the target, it would be nice to know what it was "thinking." The more things like this are in the image, the easier it will be to provide exceptions with informative content - less guesswork, more problem-solving. I like it. Give my regards to Spock. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:50 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 9 January 2012 21:53, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

It is common to discuss something before creating tracker entries, and I DID state what I think is wrong and proposed a solution. I've asked for a debate on the merits of the idea, aka, looking for the library where #moduleName says to look, respecting the behavior of dlopen on Ubuntu. I spent significant time researching this behavior, and have tried to share what I believe it all says we should be doing.

maybe you did missed it, i suggested to move all library/module/plugin search logic into image side while leave only direct calls to dlopen() (or analoguous platform-specific call) in VM. In that way, we could be able to have better control and diagnose problems of (not)finding libs and so on. Because the library lookup mechanism which is currently hardcoded in VM doesn't makes me feel happy. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Göran, Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. Best regards, Bill [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Göran Krampe [goran@krampe.se] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Hi guys! On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;) Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult. General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) regards, Göran

Sig, Full plate. I have code that serves me and my employers. It needs to be changed so that YOU and others can use it. Will do, but I need help to be able to afford to take that plunge - just how it is. Maybe a fileout of bindings would show what I am saying - I think I can do that. As Einstein proved, time and money are interchangeable. When callbacks are supported, I'll use my own time to create "something you'll really like" (as Rocky would say). Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:32 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 09:36, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

Göran,

Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread.

Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere.

Best regards,

Bill

[*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks.

you're waiting for too long. why you cannot just make it happen by yourself? or do you think that i/others will oppose to that "don't even think to go onto my territory!!" ? :) i mean, if you need them so badly, why you sitting and waiting, instead of making it happen? I would really appreciate any help with improving NativeBoost, because i have too many things to be done, and simply lacking time for doing everything at once.

[**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :)

________________________________________

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

On 31 January 2012 17:01, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

Sig,

I'm tired of reading that I'm asking people to do work FOR ME.  I am "asking" for things that will allow me to do things for YOU. Want the attached in useful form?  Maybe you don't - numerical analysis is a "home" to me.  ***I**** have what I need - YOU don't.

But you never said something like that before, i.e. "when you will have *that*, i can release/improve *this* so everyone can benefit". Unless you say what are you working on and what/why you need something , how else we can know?

I'm done with this bickering over semantics and being told how I'm leaning on others.  When callbacks are supported, I will use them to turn the attached (and more, plus >100 stucture defs) into something that YOU can use and make it available for YOU.  Until then, I don't have the time to waste on a half-baked solution with C callbacks that will be discarded once Spock arrives.

BTW, some Gnuplot and PLplot bindings are in a similar situation.  Yours *when* the infrastructure is in place.  Last I'm going to say on this.  I will NOT change things twice - too damn much work.

do you have some tool for generating these bindings? because if not, then indeed its too much work to do manually. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sig, Cooling off already.... The tool is classified until I can figure out how to get some academic credit for it. Maybe Stef can help me understand what it is and how to write it up. I'll do the work, but I need guidance since it is far afield (for me). Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:21 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Sig, Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you. How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:14 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 17:01, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

Sig,

I'm tired of reading that I'm asking people to do work FOR ME. I am "asking" for things that will allow me to do things for YOU. Want the attached in useful form? Maybe you don't - numerical analysis is a "home" to me. ***I**** have what I need - YOU don't.

But you never said something like that before, i.e. "when you will have *that*, i can release/improve *this* so everyone can benefit". Unless you say what are you working on and what/why you need something , how else we can know?

I'm done with this bickering over semantics and being told how I'm leaning on others. When callbacks are supported, I will use them to turn the attached (and more, plus >100 stucture defs) into something that YOU can use and make it available for YOU. Until then, I don't have the time to waste on a half-baked solution with C callbacks that will be discarded once Spock arrives.

BTW, some Gnuplot and PLplot bindings are in a similar situation. Yours *when* the infrastructure is in place. Last I'm going to say on this. I will NOT change things twice - too damn much work.

do you have some tool for generating these bindings? because if not, then indeed its too much work to do manually. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sig, Deal. Please have a look at my alternate steams proposal - the added #nexMany:, #nextOne, etc. I have given up on making streams robust with existing protocol, so adding some methods is the answer. When a stream hits the end, it needs to squawk - the added methods will help me help you, and (IMHO) are our most likely course forward. I use LOTS of streams, so it's a Big Deal(TM). But please check the docs and see what you think. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:33 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 17:21, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

Sig,

Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you.

How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work?

i am not offended. and of course i will continue my work towards making FFI work regardless of having enemies around or not, because i also need it for myself :) so, lets keep moving.. and cooperate on fields we can.

Bill

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Stef, Thanks. I think you will find that it will sit idly by and hurt nothing; it will help anyone who uses it, even if they don't realize it going into the process. Going back in time, it took me time to realize that OA got it right Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 12:23 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Ok I will have a look at your stream proposal. Stef On Jan 31, 2012, at 5:45 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Sig,

Deal. Please have a look at my alternate steams proposal - the added #nexMany:, #nextOne, etc. I have given up on making streams robust with existing protocol, so adding some methods is the answer. When a stream hits the end, it needs to squawk - the added methods will help me help you, and (IMHO) are our most likely course forward.

I use LOTS of streams, so it's a Big Deal(TM). But please check the docs and see what you think.

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:33 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On 31 January 2012 17:21, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

...

Sig,

Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you.

How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work?

i am not offended. and of course i will continue my work towards making FFI work regardless of having enemies around or not, because i also need it for myself :)

so, lets keep moving.. and cooperate on fields we can.

...

Bill

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Stef, Sorry - I think you should do what I am asking :) Specifically, I'm asking that we add a few methods. They will complain under conditions that some might find "violent," but if not used, they won't change anything. The alternative (best solution IMHO) would be to change behavior, but even Cincom didn't want to go that far with #next. They *did* at least consider it. Is that helpful? Please note that your English dwarfs my (non-existent) French. Some days, I forget you are from across the pond. Let me know if I can clarify anything. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:46 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Jan 31, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Stef,

Thanks. I think you will find that it will sit idly by and hurt nothing; it will help anyone who uses it, even if they don't realize it going into the process. Going back in time, it took me time to realize that OA got it right

sorry bill your english lost me completely. Can you phrase for non native :) ? Stef

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 12:23 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Ok I will have a look at your stream proposal.

Stef On Jan 31, 2012, at 5:45 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Sig,

Deal. Please have a look at my alternate steams proposal - the added #nexMany:, #nextOne, etc. I have given up on making streams robust with existing protocol, so adding some methods is the answer. When a stream hits the end, it needs to squawk - the added methods will help me help you, and (IMHO) are our most likely course forward.

I use LOTS of streams, so it's a Big Deal(TM). But please check the docs and see what you think.

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:33 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On 31 January 2012 17:21, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

...

Sig,

Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you.

How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work?

i am not offended. and of course i will continue my work towards making FFI work regardless of having enemies around or not, because i also need it for myself :)

so, lets keep moving.. and cooperate on fields we can.

...

Bill

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Stef, My modified proposal simply adds new protocol that you can safely ignore. The "basic" #next, #next: etc. will be just as broken as ever ;) The new methods are better because they DO raise exceptions. Your lost time can be fixed by using #nextAvailble:, which explicitly authorizes truncation, because there are indeed times when one needs that. I've tried to make us both happy, with me jumping through the extra hoop of using the new methods. Thanks for looking. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:27 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Jan 31, 2012, at 8:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Stef,

Sorry - I think you should do what I am asking :)

Specifically, I'm asking that we add a few methods. They will complain under conditions that some might find "violent," but if not used, they won't change anything.

The alternative (best solution IMHO) would be to change behavior, but even Cincom didn't want to go that far with #next. They *did* at least consider it.

Is that helpful? Please note that your English dwarfs my (non-existent) French. Some days, I forget you are from across the pond. Let me know if I can clarify anything.

Yes thanks. I have some work to finish and I will have a real look at the problems and solutions. I remember that I hated the exception raised in VW for at end. I made me lose hours of strange behavior.

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:46 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Jan 31, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Stef,

Thanks. I think you will find that it will sit idly by and hurt nothing; it will help anyone who uses it, even if they don't realize it going into the process. Going back in time, it took me time to realize that OA got it right

sorry bill your english lost me completely. Can you phrase for non native :) ?

Stef

...

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 12:23 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Ok I will have a look at your stream proposal.

Stef On Jan 31, 2012, at 5:45 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Sig,

Deal. Please have a look at my alternate steams proposal - the added #nexMany:, #nextOne, etc. I have given up on making streams robust with existing protocol, so adding some methods is the answer. When a stream hits the end, it needs to squawk - the added methods will help me help you, and (IMHO) are our most likely course forward.

I use LOTS of streams, so it's a Big Deal(TM). But please check the docs and see what you think.

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:33 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On 31 January 2012 17:21, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

...

Sig,

Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you.

How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work?

i am not offended. and of course i will continue my work towards making FFI work regardless of having enemies around or not, because i also need it for myself :)

so, lets keep moving.. and cooperate on fields we can.

...

Bill

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Eliot, Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Göran, Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. Best regards, Bill [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works. [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Hi guys! On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;) Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult. General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) regards, Göran -- best, Eliot

we are using it with success... installed this way: Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; load. (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. Gofer it squeaksource: 'Alien'; package: 'Alien'; load. not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) best, Esteban El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió:

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote: Eliot,

Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples?

Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Göran,

Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread.

Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere.

Best regards,

Bill

[*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks.

Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works.

[**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :)

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Hi guys!

On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

...

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;)

Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult.

General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :)

regards, Göran

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

I'm confused. Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. Stef

we are using it with success... installed this way:

Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; load. (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load.

Gofer it squeaksource: 'Alien'; package: 'Alien'; load.

not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback.

(works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4)

best, Esteban

El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió:

...

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote: Eliot,

Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples?

Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Göran,

Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread.

Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere.

Best regards,

Bill

[*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks.

Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works.

[**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :)

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Hi guys!

On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

...

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;)

Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult.

General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :)

regards, Göran

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr

wrote:

I'm confused. Why do you need alien in addition to FFI.

Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already there?

And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation.

Stef

...

we are using it with success... installed this way:

Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; load. (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load.

Gofer it squeaksource: 'Alien'; package: 'Alien'; load.

not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback.

(works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4)

best, Esteban

El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió:

...

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <

bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

...

Eliot,

Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples?

Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [ eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K < bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Göran,

Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread.

Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere.

Best regards,

Bill

[*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks.

Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works.

[**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :)

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [ goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Hi guys!

On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

...

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;)

Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult.

General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :)

regards, Göran

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

Stef, Some thoughts: (1) I thought Spock would be the unifier. Cool name as a bonus. (2) FFI can do callbacks, it's just not wrapped. Andreas described how to do it, but it's not user friendly. (3) I suspect the reason for the two packages is pragmatism, but I can't speak for those among us who are adept at the vm side of things. Think of me as an applied mathematician and biomedical engineer. I write nice code, but have my limits. (4) a unified approach would be most welcome. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote:

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: I'm confused. Why do you need alien in addition to FFI.

Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already there?

yes but why not making alien part of FFI and not forcing people to load two packages if this is part of the functionality? It just add more confusion. Stef

And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation.

Stef

...

we are using it with success... installed this way:

Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; load. (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load.

Gofer it squeaksource: 'Alien'; package: 'Alien'; load.

not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback.

(works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4)

best, Esteban

El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió:

...

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote: Eliot,

Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples?

Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Göran,

Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread.

Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere.

Best regards,

Bill

[*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks.

Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works.

[**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :)

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Hi guys!

On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

...

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;)

Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult.

General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :)

regards, Göran

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

Eliot, Lazy is not a word I would use - it *is* a lot of work. I'm closing in on a 1.3 image. Once it's up (this includes a Seaside 2.8->3.0 move), I'll try alien callbacks w/ GSL. It won't happen overnight, but it will be nice to be able to define functions in Smalltalk (thinking roots, LM, etc.). Perhaps Spock could start out as a facade to make things *appear* unified?? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:27 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Stef, Some thoughts: (1) I thought Spock would be the unifier. Cool name as a bonus. (2) FFI can do callbacks, it's just not wrapped. Andreas described how to do it, but it's not user friendly. (3) I suspect the reason for the two packages is pragmatism, but I can't speak for those among us who are adept at the vm side of things. Think of me as an applied mathematician and biomedical engineer. I write nice code, but have my limits. try laziness ;) its all work. I haven't found the time to combine them. (4) a unified approach would be most welcome. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote:

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: I'm confused. Why do you need alien in addition to FFI.

Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already there?

yes but why not making alien part of FFI and not forcing people to load two packages if this is part of the functionality? It just add more confusion. Stef

And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation.

Stef

...

we are using it with success... installed this way:

Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; load. (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load.

Gofer it squeaksource: 'Alien'; package: 'Alien'; load.

not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback.

(works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4)

best, Esteban

El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió:

...

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Eliot,

Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples?

Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15

Bill

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu><mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>>> wrote: Göran,

Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread.

Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere.

Best regards,

Bill

[*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks.

Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works.

[**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :)

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se><mailto:goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

Hi guys!

On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

...

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;)

Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult.

General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :)

regards, Göran

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

-- best, Eliot

Will do. Thanks! ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 5:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Eliot, Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu><mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>>> wrote: Göran, Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. Best regards, Bill [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works. [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se><mailto:goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Hi guys! On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me.

Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it.

Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time.

I might be wrong, but I fail to find

- any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) - any issues you solved - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote

I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now.

Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions.

My 2c,

This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;) Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult. General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) regards, Göran -- best, Eliot -- best, Eliot