Guys, Please stop speculating, no it is not Monticello, no it is not HTTP access, no it is not networking itself, it is DNS resolution, in a very specific situation: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18281/NetNameResolver-class-addressForName... Note also that many, many people deploy Pharo in production contexts with heavy multi threading and networking loads with great success - that would not be possible if we did not get the basics right. Sven
On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:31, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com> wrote:
Dimitris,
but AFAIK when Spotter freezes itâs not using Metacello. It does an http request to pharo catalog. Isnât this a problem with http request blocking the only thread that we have?
Uko
On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses Monticello which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still it's a Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the most serious problem with Monticello.
On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote: I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with Pharo.
Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100%
Phil
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote: Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners.
Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for pharo tool developers to use ? Yes
I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to attract a lot more new users.
My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but thats a completely different thing.
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo for keeping track of this
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote: On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
This is not only when teaching.
I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio.
Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking.
We need an "Airplane mode" switch.
That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent mode button on the background, or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons.
cheers -ben
Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings.
Phil
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com> wrote:
The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem.
Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦
Uko
On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong@free.fr> wrote:
One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad french university with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros only and we can go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes.
<sorry I could not resist>
On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong@free.fr> wrote:
We should make it available from the catalog :)
Yes, it most certainly should be.
If only we could then tell user to type
Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter
to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-)
Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking>
2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifact... is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter.
Also, I see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimish... on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one?
BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image?
I donât know. It shouldnât :)
What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and they should be in catalog) :)
Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the two themes policy).
it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :)
We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice.
problem with it is that is makes ripples. If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait for P7, yes.
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system.
-- Pavel
Esteban
-- Pavel
Esteban
Phil
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like in general all this new additions.
By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people to install other themes from catalog.
Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to clean up, not without problems.
cheers, Esteban
ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed to control the flow of issues...
And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a good thing.
But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) frozen version?
Pharo 7 will arrive soon⦠*if* we can fix all things missing. If I can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version.
There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why Spotter does not shows search line.
Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that meant:
- some important changes in UFFI - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a callback problem).
I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in general deserves a lot of testing.
I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train now), but in the mean time you can download all from here:
http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip (linux) http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need them)
cheers, Esteban
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