Hi Dimitris, the Greek Google link does not work for me for some reason; maybe the shootout server is down ... in any case I strongly doubt that the shootout benchmarks (if that's where the link was supposed to point to) say anything about productivity. The other link is not what I was expecting, sorry. For one, the blog entry does not really say anything about productivity. It is all about LOC, which is a poor metric for productivity. The blog post certainly does not "prove that by replacing java with python you can scale down developing time by 2-3x times", to quote you. Having to write, say, 50 % of the LOC in no way means you need half the time. Staying tuned for more, Michael Am 29.01.2012 um 18:06 schrieb dimitris chloupis <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk>:
ok I think I found something you may like
this
http://codemonkeyism.com/comparing-java-and-python-is-java-10x-more-verbose-...
From: dimitris chloupis <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> To: "Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Sunday, 29 January 2012, 18:58 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?
sorry could not find it , nor I remember the name, I have seen one or two . But in any case I think the comparison is obvious. If you visit the language game , the code required by python is usually 2x 3x times less for the same thing.
http://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=language%20game&source=web&cd=1&ved=0C...
From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> To: "Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Sunday, 29 January 2012, 16:12 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?
Reference, please :) I fully believe it.
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Michael Haupt [mhaupt@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:44 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?
Dimitris,
this is very interesting; I've always wanted to read that kind of study. Do you have a pointer?
Thanks,
Michael
Am 29.01.2012 um 08:51 schrieb dimitris chloupis <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk>:
Maybe not for smalltalk but for python there is a number of surveys that prove that by replacing java with python you can scale down developing time by 2-3x times. By "prove" I mean projects that have actually done that. Not quite a 10x but I think its impressive non the less and I think the numbers wont be very dissimilar for smalltalk
From: Michael Haupt <mhaupt@gmail.com> To: "Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012, 23:29 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?
Janko,
Am 28.01.2012 um 21:08 schrieb Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si>:
I think this is a post that clearly illustrates the big problem with smalltalk. The very fact that is compared with Java and Java survives.
Yes, that 4-5 peole can do what 50 Java people are needed is both a blessing and a curse :)
I wanted to ask this earlier: is there actual evidence for this, or is it just boasting?
Blessing because of productivity, curse because we are not able to scale beyond one highly connected development group. We don't have project management practices and tools, while Java guys have because they need them from the start.
I'm not so sure the people at those Smalltalk firms building software for banks et al. have no project management. Boasting? ;-)
Best,
Michael