Hi Dimitris,

the Greek Google link does not work for me for some reason; maybe the shootout server is down ... in any case I strongly doubt that the shootout benchmarks (if that's where the link was supposed to point to) say anything about productivity.

The other link is not what I was expecting, sorry. For one, the blog entry does not really say anything about productivity. It is all about LOC, which is a poor metric for productivity. The blog post certainly does not "prove that by replacing java with python you can scale down developing time by 2-3x times", to quote you. Having to write, say, 50 % of the LOC in no way means you need half the time.

Staying tuned for more,

Michael

Am 29.01.2012 um 18:06 schrieb dimitris chloupis <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk>:

ok I think I found something you may like 

this

http://codemonkeyism.com/comparing-java-and-python-is-java-10x-more-verbose-than-python-loc-a-modest-empiric-approach/

From: dimitris chloupis <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>
Sent: Sunday, 29 January 2012, 18:58
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?

sorry could not find it , nor I remember the name, I have seen one or two . But in any case I think the comparison is obvious. If you visit the language game , the code required by python is usually 2x 3x times less for the same thing.


From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>
To: "Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>
Sent: Sunday, 29 January 2012, 16:12
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?

Reference, please :)  I fully believe it.

Bill





From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Michael Haupt [mhaupt@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:44 AM
To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?

Dimitris,

this is very interesting; I've always wanted to read that kind of study. Do you have a pointer?

Thanks,

Michael

Am 29.01.2012 um 08:51 schrieb dimitris chloupis <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk>:

Maybe not for smalltalk but for python there is a number of surveys that prove that by replacing java with python you can scale down developing time by 2-3x times. By "prove" I mean projects that have actually done that.  Not quite a 10x but I think its impressive non the less and I think the numbers wont be very dissimilar for smalltalk

From: Michael Haupt <mhaupt@gmail.com>
To: "Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>
Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012, 23:29
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?

Janko,

Am 28.01.2012 um 21:08 schrieb Janko Miv��ek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si>:
>> I think this is a post that clearly illustrates the big problem with
>> smalltalk. The very fact that is compared with Java and Java survives.
>
> Yes, that 4-5 peole can do what 50 Java people are needed is both a
> blessing and a curse :)

I wanted to ask this earlier: is there actual evidence for this, or is it just boasting?

> Blessing because of productivity, curse because
> we are not able to scale beyond one highly connected development group.
> We don't have project management practices and tools, while Java guys
> have because they need them from the start.

I'm not so sure the people at those Smalltalk firms building software for banks et al. have no project management. Boasting? ;-)

Best,

Michael