Yeah indeed that is worse. But I have to confese my experience with both smalltalk and lisp (common lisp) has started with a "so what ?" experience. When I opened squeak , the IDE looked like any other ide I used, the guis was ugly, morph halos looked kinda weird. I did not understan why all the ranting that everything is a smalltalk object and of course we should not forget the usual "If your language is all that great why people are not even aware of it". Especially the last one , I have been coding for fun for more than 24 years now and never , absolutely never heard of smalltalk before. Actually the reason I discovered smalltalk was because of lisper I was chating via irc 1 + years ago. I was reading how awesome common lisp is , but of course I did hate all that parentheses. However I did decide to give it a serious try , but for me the barrier was emacs and text based interfaces, I was always a fan of GUIs, so I was chating with him saying to him how I would love to do live coding and visual coding and he replied "hey did you try squeak and smalltalk ?" , I replied back "whats that ?" and the rest is history. So to be fair he did tell me what the big deal was so I knew when I tried squeak that it was very special. Because if I have tried it by accident most likely I would have taken the same route as you and even never come back to it. The problem with smalltalk and lisp is that it takes a lot of time to realise the benefits of using such unpopular languages. Its difficult to kick out the "whats the big deal ?" attitude. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-A-screenshot-we-should-remind-today-tp469092... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.