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Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Dave Mason

On May 5, 2011, at 06:12, sourav roy wrote: > I agree to what have you said but as i am a beginner to smalltalk i need lot of help to get a good grip over it I was talking with one of my grad students yesterday, who was in a similar boat. A big difference between Smalltalk and Java/C# (and worse, C++) is that it has a minimalist syntax. If you have been programming in those syntaxy languages, you have grown to pattern-match that syntax to give you the structure of a method. In Smalltalk, everything is a message send to some object (except assignment and return, and ignoring internal compiler optimizations) - so figuring out what is going on is a matter of following the message sends. Another big difference is that classes are objects too, so 'self' could be a class or an instance. This is a big advantage, but initially can make it harder to follow the message send trail. Pay attention to whether you're looking at a class method or an instance method. A third big difference is that the class hierarchy is much, much, richer, so messages are often sent to methods that are defined in super-classes or sub-classes of the method you're currently looking at. This is particularly true for class methods, because there isn't any inheritance of class methods in the syntaxy languages. You may find the hierarchy browser to be a good friend here. Hierarchies in the syntaxy languages are usually <=3 deep. In Smalltalk, 8-10 is not unusual. Lastly, most Smalltalk systems are image based. That means all the code is there for you to look at - you just have to find it! Because the code (the ultimate documentation :-) is there, it has meant that documentation has been seen as less important. The Pharo community has been working to address that, both in books and in internal documentation (see the COTD postings) > and moreover unlike other mainstream languages there are not much documents or professional from which i can get some guidance about it. As others have pointed out, there actually is quite a bit... just not from Amazon. > And i feel as Smalltalk is quite vast and different in structure from the other mail(with my two month experiance and i may be wrong), a beginner needs some proper guidance to get his hands over smalltalk. So, i just request you to kindly guide me to how should i get into smalltalk. Hope this helps. As others have said, Smalltalk is worth it - it will make you a better programmer. As will several other languages, most of which you'll find discussed on the lambda-the-ultimate.org blog. ../Dave

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Toon Verwaest

> I rather believe it will be Smalltalk. After all, consider how > different each step of ST-72 to ST-80 was from each other, yet they > were all still Smalltalk. > What -IS- Smalltalk? {insert a whole philosophical discourse here}

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Toon Verwaest

On 05/05/2011 12:12 PM, sourav roy wrote: > > Hi Toon, > > I agree to what have you said but as i am a beginner to smalltalk i > need lot of help to get a good grip over it and moreover unlike other > mainstream languages there are not much documents or professional from > which i can get some guidance about it. And i feel as Smalltalk is > quite vast and different in structure from the other mail(with my two > month experiance and i may be wrong), a beginner needs some proper > guidance to get his hands over smalltalk. So, i just request you to > kindly guide me to how should i get into smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav > In addition to the links that were sent to you, this mailing list is a good access point to get the information you might need. I don't know where you are based exactly, but you might be able to find people in your neighborhood that can help you out. If you live close to Bern, CH; you are always welcome to pass by my office and I can give you a tutoring session when you are stuck ;) Or you can just follow the Smalltalk course at our university. I'm pretty sure other people are open to helping you as well. cheers, Toon

May 5, 2011

[Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Igor Stasenko

Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press tab all the time while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, inserts cr into text. So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Douglas Brebner

On 05/05/2011 12:45, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > Now for pharo we have a vision: > We want a system to invent the next one and that people can make a living with it. > - bootstrappable > - clean lean robust > - (ideally) good interface with C > - (ideally) a lovely fast readable documentd extensible VM > - good infrastructure > - meta model for code > - browser for remote/crosscompilation/default browsing > - new compiler > - first class instance variable > - new network layer > - new graphics > - new module system > > At the end it may not be Smalltalk but it will be the same spirit. I think that we are slowly getting to the point > where we will start to invent new things instead of just removing old experiences. > I rather believe it will be Smalltalk. After all, consider how different each step of ST-72 to ST-80 was from each other, yet they were all still Smalltalk.

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Books: Pharo By Example: http://pharobyexample.org/ http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks.html On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Henrik Sperre Johansen < henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > On 05.05.2011 12:12, sourav roy wrote: > >> >> Hi Toon, >> >> I agree to what have you said but as i am a beginner to smalltalk i need >> lot of help to get a good grip over it and moreover unlike other mainstream >> languages there are not much documents or professional from which i can get >> some guidance about it. And i feel as Smalltalk is quite vast and different >> in structure from the other mail(with my two month experiance and i may be >> wrong), a beginner needs some proper guidance to get his hands over >> smalltalk. So, i just request you to kindly guide me to how should i get >> into smalltalk. >> >> Thanks&Regards, >> >> Sourav >> >> > The Daily podcasts James Robertson made while at Cincom are also available, > covering a wide range of topics (in VW ST at least), from familiarizing with > the tools, to use of specific libraries: > http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/main/developer-community/tutorials/ > > He's also made (re)made alot of the introductory ones for multiple > different dialects: > http://jarober.com/blog/st4u.ssp > > Cheers, > Henry > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [COTDC] 59 - HierarchicalURI

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

part taken from URI class comment: "A hierarchical URI is either an absolute URI whose scheme-specific part begins with a slash character, or a relative URI, that is, a URI that does not specify a scheme. Some examples of hierarchical URIs are: http://www.pharo-project.org/home file:///~/calendar A hierarchical URI is subject to further parsing according to the syntax [scheme:][//authority][path][?query][#fragment] where the characters :, /, ?, and # stand for themselves. The scheme-specific part of a hierarchical URI consists of the characters between the scheme and fragment parts. The authority part of a hierarchical URI is, if specified, either server-based or registry-based. A server-based authority parses according to the syntax [user-info@]host[:port] where the characters @ and : stand for themselves. Nearly all URI schemes currently in use are server-based. An authority part that does not parse in this way is considered to be registry-based. The path component of a hierarchical URI is itself said to be absolute if it begins with a slash character ('/'); otherwise it is relative. The path of a hierarchical URI that is either absolute or specifies an authority is always absolute." Le 4 mai 2011 Ã 21:20, laurent laffont a Ã©crit : > Today: HierarchicalURI > > > Comment Of The Day Contest - One Day One Comment > Rules: > #1: Each day a not commented class is elected. Each day the best comment will be integrated with name of the author(s). > #2: If you cannot comment it, deprecate it. > Results: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CommentOfTheDayContest > > Laurent

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Keep on making Pharo, IMHO it's the best thing that happened to squeak since years - though I was very septic at the beginning > Last time I made a small demo to 2 of my collegues they didn't laugh - scouic - and were even impressed by smalltalk concepts Thanks *a lot* alain. we **know** what you think. We were teaching Smalltalk to students and look like idiots during years. I should be one of the person that demoed a *lot* smalltalk and got burned. I could impose Smalltalk in some places because of my strong large cv. As we already said we invested a lot in Squeak (I wrote three books = 4 years to write one) and a lot of things. For my job people were laughing: oh you are doing Smalltalk, little smile = you are an idiot while I'm the french which published the most in OOPSLA but this did not count..... and this was a problem for me to get a job. I can continue the long list like that. So doing pharo was not an easy decision: it was pharo or ruby or python or lua. I hope that we did not make the wrong choice - I'm not joking. Now for pharo we have a vision: We want a system to invent the next one and that people can make a living with it. - bootstrappable - clean lean robust - (ideally) good interface with C - (ideally) a lovely fast readable documentd extensible VM - good infrastructure - meta model for code - browser for remote/crosscompilation/default browsing - new compiler - first class instance variable - new network layer - new graphics - new module system At the end it may not be Smalltalk but it will be the same spirit. I think that we are slowly getting to the point where we will start to invent new things instead of just removing old experiences. Stef

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 05.05.2011 12:12, sourav roy wrote: > > Hi Toon, > > I agree to what have you said but as i am a beginner to smalltalk i > need lot of help to get a good grip over it and moreover unlike other > mainstream languages there are not much documents or professional from > which i can get some guidance about it. And i feel as Smalltalk is > quite vast and different in structure from the other mail(with my two > month experiance and i may be wrong), a beginner needs some proper > guidance to get his hands over smalltalk. So, i just request you to > kindly guide me to how should i get into smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav > The Daily podcasts James Robertson made while at Cincom are also available, covering a wide range of topics (in VW ST at least), from familiarizing with the tools, to use of specific libraries: http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/main/developer-community/tutorials/ He's also made (re)made alot of the introductory ones for multiple different dialects: http://jarober.com/blog/st4u.ssp Cheers, Henry

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Nick Ager

Hi Sourav, Laurent's Pharocasts (http://www.pharocasts.com) are a great place to start. Here are a couple to get you started: http://www.pharocasts.com/2010/08/install-pharo-on-windows.html http://www.pharocasts.com/2010/01/learn-smalltalk-with-profstef.html Good luck and welcome Nick On 5 May 2011 11:12, sourav roy <sourav_pharo(a)in.com> wrote: > Hi Toon, > > I agree to what have you said but as i am a beginner to smalltalk i need > lot of help to get a good grip over it and moreover unlike other mainstream > languages there are not much documents or professional from which i can get > some guidance about it. And i feel as Smalltalk is quite vast and different > in structure from the other mail(with my two month experiance and i may be > wrong), a beginner needs some proper guidance to get his hands over > smalltalk. So, i just request you to kindly guide me to how should i get > into smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav > > > ---------- Original message ---------- > From:"Toon Verwaest"< toon.verwaest(a)gmail.com > > Date: 5 May 11 13:29:11 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry > To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > Hi, > > I can tell you that independent of how the industry might perceive the > language Smalltalk, learning Smalltalk will make you personally a better > software engineer. And this is what the industry does want. You will look at > programming from a new angle and this will give you an edge. > > This is also true for learning other old languages like Scheme or Lisp. As > long as you stay within your Java / .NET bubble you will be one in a > billion. If you learn Smalltalk, the fact you know something that other > people might not makes you more special. The only negative part of learning > Smalltalk while working on other types of applications is that you will eat > your shoe 95% of the time hating that Java / .NET aren't more ev olved and > flexible :) > > > As it seems that you are already working on a project revolving around > Smalltalk, be very happy that you are getting the opportunity to learn it; > you'll come out for the better. > > Lastly, don't care too much about popularity within industry. If you take > the time to learn the systems for yourself you will probably learn to > understand the differences yourself. You are currently also part of industry > and obviously don't know Smalltalk well yet; how informed was your decision > to not know Smalltalk? You are part of "the industry" making other people > not choose Smalltalk based on your (non-)choice of not using Smalltalk; if > they would all think this way! Sheep won't change anything :) > > cheers, > Toon > > On 05/05/2011 07:38 AM, sourav roy wrote: > > > Hi All, > > I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a > project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in > Smalltalk. > > I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is used > in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its a DEAD > > language for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some clarification > about it. > > > I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other OOPs > Languages and what is the future prospect of > > one if he/she is into Smalltalk development. > > Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for > working with Smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav Roy > > > Get Yourself a cool, short *(a)in.com* Email ID now!<http://mail.in.com/mails/new_reg.php?utm_source=invite&utm_medium=outgoing> > > > > > Get Yourself a cool, short *(a)in.com* Email ID now!<http://mail.in.com/mails/new_reg.php?utm_source=invite&utm_medium=outgoing> >

May 5, 2011