- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

by Tobias Pape

Am 2012-03-01 um 08:29 schrieb Guido Stepken: > People like 1-klick Images ... Setup.exe ... No raw ZIP file, no additional installation of unzip, no shell, no "cd" no ".bat" What else do you see there? > > If you want to really make people try software, make it as comfortable, as possible for them. Even the 1-klick-Image of Pharo is no such one, its a 7 or 8 mousklick Image. When it is advertised as 1-klick, i expect that to be "one klick" if it is advertized "stable" i expect that to be stable, rockstable! Damn! "No half way things!". Lasy attitude by the programmer directly shows up in the install routine. > > When i see such a lousy packed piece of software i just expect crap quality in it, sorry! > > Take EToys Setup.exe, replace the image, re-sfx again. Is it so hard??? Same with Pharo. > > Tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken m(

March 1, 2012

[Pharo-project] FilePlugin rant

by Camillo Bruni

I recently started to hack around Monticello due to very low response times when having a huge package cache. Now interestingly the FilePlugin primitives for listing files are horrible! Example: ----------------------------------------------------------- MC often requests a list of all mzc's cached locally: (FileDirectory default / 'package-cache') entries In my case there are 4300 mczs in the shared package-cache timeToRun yields a nightmarish 2050ms for this, further investigation leads to the fact that most of the time is spent in the file primitive! Now thats some 2ms for a single directory entry! [Just as a side note, ruby1.8 does the same job in 10ms :D] ----------------------------------------------------------- primLookupEntryIn: fullPath index: index <primitive: 'primitiveDirectoryLookup' module: 'FilePlugin'> ----------------------------------------------------------- I think we should definitely add another primitive which directly lists the file under a certain path. Of course this will break compatibility with existing code, but I think the current approach does not scale... best cami

March 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

by Carlo

Hi Craig Guido's email was meant to read: Thanks for sharing your work! On 01 Mar 2012, at 9:29 AM, Guido Stepken wrote: People like 1-klick Images ... Setup.exe ... No raw ZIP file, no additional installation of unzip, no shell, no "cd" no ".bat" If you want to really make people try software, make it as comfortable, as possible for them. Even the 1-klick-Image of Pharo is no such one, its a 7 or 8 mousklick Image. When it is advertised as 1-klick, i expect that to be "one klick" if it is advertized "stable" i expect that to be stable, rockstable! Damn! "No half way things!". Lasy attitude by the programmer directly shows up in the install routine. When i see such a lousy packed piece of software i just expect crap quality in it, sorry! Take EToys Setup.exe, replace the image, re-sfx again. Is it so hard??? Same with Pharo. Tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken Am 01.03.2012 05:42 schrieb "Craig Latta" <craig(a)netjam.org>: > No, meant: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15188004/spoon > /Spoon%203%20alpha%203.zip That's a standard "all-in-one" Squeak release, the bits for all platforms are there. -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547

March 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] leaking semaphores

by Henrik Johansen

On Mar 1, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Guido Stepken wrote: > As long as GC, recompile, (see blocked UI during updates), ffi database drivers completely block Smalltalk execution or do not access external databases smoothly in parallel (also see async I/O, MP) i see only one laugh here - that's indeed you! > > Have fun! > > Guido Stepken > > Aaah, the good ol' "If you can't hit with a rifle, switch to a shotgun" approach, haven't seen that in a while. Have fun! Henry

March 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] fun with NBOpenGL

by Igor Stasenko

On 1 March 2012 08:54, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > At minimum as Pharo demo i expect to see data coming from a mysql database > or csv file, flying around as bar graph on the pharo desktop. > > Such simple things i had in 1986 as demo in Turbo Pascal. See FreePascal, > e.g. Any platform, stable compiler, plenty of libs, blazingly fast, good > community support. > Good. Now since you repeating same rhetoric, don't expect that you will get different reaction from me: - if everything is so perfect somewhere else but not here, my only question is: why you still here? and what you trying to prove? that there's always something better which can be found elsewhere? you don't have to prove it, i know it by myself already. But that's why i'm here. > Have fun, Guido Stepken > > Am 01.03.2012 03:06 schrieb "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > >> On 1 March 2012 04:01, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > On 1 March 2012 03:00, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >> >> My first rotating cube i programmed in 1982, when i was 16. Today, >> >> Professors at Inria learn it to do from scratch. O tempora, o mores! >> >> >> >> What advance in informatics!!! >> >> btw, you can train your speech on streets. >> Every time you will see a baby trying to stand and walk, you can say: >> O tempora, o mores! I was able to do that <your age> - 1 years back! >> >> >> >> >> B.t.w: Turbo Pascal 8086 Compiler, Editor was programmed within 3 weeks >> >> by >> >> Heilsberg, under control of a notary!!! >> >> >> >> Today, it takes 3 years with 5 people to get a simple Smalltalk >> >> compiler >> >> right. >> >> >> > you make no sense. >> > But i glad that you like it :) >> > >> >> Have fun! >> >> >> >> Guido Stepken >> >> >> >> I really like do useless thing ;-p. >> >> >> >> The control >> >> for the cube >> >> x : increase by one the number of cube on the x axis >> >> y : increase by one the number of cube on the y axis >> >> z : increase by one the number of cube on the z axis >> >> X : decrease by one the number of cube on the x axis >> >> Y : decrease by one the number of cube on the y axis >> >> Z : decrease by one the number of cube on the z axis >> >> >> >> left arrow : turn left >> >> right arrow : turnÂ right >> >> up arrow : turn up >> >> down arrow : turnÂ down >> >> >> >> ShiftÂ left arrow : translate left >> >> ShiftÂ right arrow :Â translateÂ right >> >> ShiftÂ up arrow :Â translateÂ up >> >> ShiftÂ down arrow :Â translateÂ down >> >> >> >> space move forward. >> >> ctrl space (because dont take shift space as specific keystroke and >> >> array >> >> dont take ctrl so i choose that): move backward. >> >> >> >> i search during half a hour but dont find a relevant quote from pinky >> >> and >> >> the brain. sad. >> >> What i really like Igor is, i don't need to close the morph for apply >> >> my >> >> change to the render method, i mean in addition to not recompile the >> >> whole >> >> project. >> >> >> >> >> >> <NBOpenGL-JB end i am tired.st> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Screen shot 2012-03-01 at 1.26.09 AM.png> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:38 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> >> >> woow... >> >> >> >> it is always fun to see that something which looks like trash (who can >> >> be impressed by a stupid rotating cube today?) >> >> can be turned into piece of art with a few keystrokes, just by taking >> >> right pictures :) >> >> >> >> And that's why it is soo fun to work with graphics. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Best regards, >> >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Jean Baptiste Arnaud >> >> jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Best regards, >> > Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Is athens configuration loading?

by Igor Stasenko

Oh.. sorry. forgot to mention one important detail: BIG thanks to Fernando Olivero for help with putting flesh on Cairo backend. Fernando was the first who had chance to taste Athens, and was brave enough to base his own project on not-yet complete and not stabilized API of Athens. But i think he can say by own why he decided to do so. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 1, 2012

[Pharo-project] strange

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

stef

March 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Is athens configuration loading?

by Igor Stasenko

On 1 March 2012 08:42, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Great news. Just a couple of questions: > - Where is the configuration? > - What else do I need to install on Mac or on Windows? > A config residing in same place as rest of it: SqS/Athens. There are two different backends now: - balloon - cairo to use balloon surfaces (see subclasses of AthensSurface) you can use any VM, because implementation is based on what is available from VM to use cairo surfaces, which using cairo library, first you need VM with NativeBoost (go to jenkins and dl VM from there), and second you need the library itself, which on macs should be built using ports port install cairo +universal (it is important to use +universal, since VM is 32bit, and if you omit this option, by default it will build everything with 64bits only). I had no time to check how to get cairo library on other platforms, but AFAIK, it should be much simpler to macs, since you can just download binaries from the project site. Then the only thing you need to change is to modify #nbLibraryNameOrHandle method in TCairoLibrary to point to right location of the library. But i didn't tried to use it on something else than macs,(that's why version number is 0.1 ;) so you might try, but there's no guarantees that it will work. I would like to describe athens in more detail, like what is working, and what to expect, and what is general design behind it, but i will do it separately and most probably put it as a post on my blog (yeah, i have one, which i haven't used for 2 years i think ;). > Cheers, > Doru > > On 29 Feb 2012, at 23:34, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> On 1 March 2012 00:25, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Excellent! >>>>> Make our eyes blinking of pleasure :) >>>>> >>>> >>>> okay, i added version 0.1.1 >>> >>> call it 0.2 :) >> >> i reserve that number for more dramatic changes :) >> >>> >>>> with cleaned examples. >>>> >>>> So, you can use >>>> AthensBalloonSurfaceExamples example... >>>> >>>> to check. >>>> I will iterate over AthensCairoSurfaceExamples >>>> tomorrow, since i under windoze now, and cairo is not yet there :) >>> >>> OK :) >>> But let us kick this out of the door >>> We can sit and you show me what we should rewrite and we do it and DONE! >>> >> Currently, we're only sratching the surface. >> But you're right with 'release soon, release often' >> >>> Stef >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] leaking semaphores

by Guido Stepken

As long as GC, recompile, (see blocked UI during updates), ffi database drivers completely block Smalltalk execution or do not access external databases smoothly in parallel (also see async I/O, MP) i see only one laugh here - that's indeed you! Have fun! Guido Stepken Am 01.03.2012 09:43 schrieb "Henrik Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no >: > > On Mar 1, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Guido Stepken wrote: > > Sooner or later Pharo Smalltalkers will have to read into this paper: > > http://www.lemis.com/grog/SMPng/USENIX/paper.ascii > > Why? Pharo is a OS on top of another OS. The same principles apply here. > Without considering these principles or algorithms (no more or as little > semaphores as possible, replaced by wait_queues with adjustable > priorities), Pharo will suffer those problems. > > tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken > > > I could enumerate the ways you are off target in this context, but that > would be wasting my time. > > thx 4 the laugh, Henry > > p.s. The paper itself is indeed quite good and worth reading :D >

March 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] leaking semaphores

by Henrik Johansen

On Mar 1, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Guido Stepken wrote: > Sooner or later Pharo Smalltalkers will have to read into this paper: > > http://www.lemis.com/grog/SMPng/USENIX/paper.ascii > > Why? Pharo is a OS on top of another OS. The same principles apply here. Without considering these principles or algorithms (no more or as little semaphores as possible, replaced by wait_queues with adjustable priorities), Pharo will suffer those problems. > > tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken > I could enumerate the ways you are off target in this context, but that would be wasting my time. thx 4 the laugh, Henry p.s. The paper itself is indeed quite good and worth reading :D

March 1, 2012