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Re: [Pharo-project] Transform sends to ANSI standard?

by Levente Uzonyi

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > > Hi folks, > I am rewriting packages to be compatible or more portable between Smalltalks. > Code Critics gives the following information on my packages: > > - #cr, #crlf, #lf, #space, #tab, #findTokens:, ... are not part of the ANSI > string protocol. > > - #cr and #lf are not part of the ANSI stream protocol. > > - The ANSI standard does not support #asInteger and #asString on Object. > > - Some collection methods are not ANSI compatible: #pairsDo:, > #collect:thenDo:, #reject:thenDo:, #detectSum:, #valuesDo:, > #keysSortedSafely, #new:withAll:, etc. > > Does anyone have an idea on how to transform those sends to be ANSI > compatible? Is there an ANSI compatible Smalltalk implementation out there? I doubt it. If I were you, then I'd use a compatibility layer like Sport or Grease, instead of relying on the ANSI standard. But to answer your question: you should check how these methods are implemented and check if the implementation is ANSI compatible or not. In most cases they are: string cr ==> Character cr asString #lf same as above stream cr ==> stream nextPut: Character cr #lf, #space, #tab similar to #cr stream crlf ==> stream nextPut: Character cr; nextPut: Character lf #findTokens: ==> no ANSI compatible method. If the argument is a single character, then you can create a stream on the collection and use #upTo: to find the parts. collection collect: aBlock thenDo: anotherBlock ==> (collection collect: aBlock) do: anotherBlock collection detectSum: aBlock ==> collection inject: 0 into: [ :sum :each | sum + (aBlock value: each) ] #valuesDo: ==> use #do: or #keysAndValuesDo: instead #keysSortedSafely ==> sorting is not part of the ANSI standard, only SortedCollection is, so you can use something like: collection keys asSortedCollection: [ :a :b | <copy the contents of the sort block here from #keysSortedSafely> ] Array new: x withAll: y ==> (Array new: x) atAllPut: y Levente P.S.: My problem with the ANSI standard is that it seems more like something that documents the common things in Smalltalks at the time of its creation instead of a complete and future-proof base API. > > Best regards, > > HernÃ¡n > > >

Sept. 26, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] No GUI on MacOSX 10.5.8 using Cocoa VM

by Yanni Chiu

[re-sending since gmane may have swallowed it] On 25/09/12 5:49 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > I don't understand, is this happen only if you "copy" plugin from one > VM to another? I use the VM's as built. A long time ago I tried to "copy" plugins from one place to another, but I could never get it to work (on MacOSX) - so, in my mind that has never been an approach to try anymore. I'll try copying the Inria-built SSL plugin to the Eliot-built VM, and see what happens. [Update - I looked at the directory structure of the Cocoa vs Carbon apps, and decided to try to build the VM instead of trying to splice in a plugin. It doesn't seem to be just a simple .so file to be copied.]

Sept. 26, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] No GUI on MacOSX 10.5.8 using Cocoa VM

by Yanni Chiu

On 25/09/12 11:33 AM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > > So any ideas? I tried to build the CogVM. - search for build instructions, blog post, etc. - almost give up in frustration before discovering the process noted below :) - download the tar ball from: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/Cog-VM/Architecture=32,OS=mac/ - find and install cmake - already had a C compiler installed - the HOWTOBUILD file said: cd build cmake . make - the build path is hard coded so: % mkdir -p Users/hudson/jenkins/workspace/Cog-VM/Architecture/32/OS/mac/ % mv ~/src Users/hudson/jenkins/workspace/Cog-VM/Architecture/32/OS/mac/cog # where ~/src is the un-tar'ed tar ball from above - run cmake and make again (sometimes had to remove CMakeCache.txt file) - build fails at: ==== [ 77%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/CogVM.dir/Users/hudson/jenkins/workspace/Cog-VM/Architecture/32/OS/mac/cog/platforms/iOS/vm/Common/Classes/sqSqueakScreenAndWindow.m.o In file included from /Users/hudson/jenkins/workspace/Cog-VM/Architecture/32/OS/mac/cog/platforms/iOS/vm/Common/Classes/sqSqueakScreenAndWindow.m:44: /Users/hudson/jenkins/workspace/Cog-VM/Architecture/32/OS/mac/cog/platforms/iOS/vm/OSX/SqueakOSXAppDelegate.h:46: error: cannot find protocol declaration for âNSApplicationDelegateâ make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/CogVM.dir/Users/hudson/jenkins/workspace/Cog-VM/Architecture/32/OS/mac/cog/platforms/iOS/vm/Common/Classes/sqSqueakScreenAndWindow.m.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/CogVM.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 ==== - the culprit is the line: @interface SqueakOSXAppDelegate : sqSqueakAppDelegate <NSApplicationDelegate> - web search for NSApplicationDelegate - find Apple dev page that says: NSApplicationDelegate - Available in OS X v10.6 and later. So, is there an important reason to use NSApplicationDelegate? IIUC, it results in the VM requiring OSX 10.6 or higher, which means my 10.5.8 will never work with CogVM's built this way.

Sept. 26, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Transform sends to ANSI standard?

by Igor Stasenko

.. and you can always create own extension methods #cr -> #carriageReturn etc but as Benoit said, even if you do it, this won't make your code automagically portable across all smalltalk dialects. You will still need portability package per each dialect, otherwise you'll have to implement own streams, collections etc. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sept. 26, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: The roadmap aka fight plan to make image control host window

by Igor Stasenko

Remember, Andreas added a nice new feature into (at least) windows VMs, where upon startup it showing a splash image? By reading a .bmp file and delaying rest of process by couple seconds. That maybe useful. But what if tomorrow, my customer will want to keep showing it, till user click on it? What you will do? Right! Go and hack VM. And what if he will want to show splash and progress bar while loading/initializing stuff? Another shitloads of code into VM? And something fantastic, what if customer would like to use different image format for splash screen, png, jpeg? And what if we would like to automatically download the splash image from web site before showing it? So, where is the end of this? When you will finally say "enough", we need proper window management in image? -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sept. 26, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: The roadmap aka fight plan to make image control host window

by Igor Stasenko

On 26 September 2012 00:47, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On 25 September 2012 19:35, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> First, we need to make one thing: >> >> >> >> Change the VM to not call ioProcessEvents function directly, but >> >> rather use a variable which will hold a function pointer. >> >> Initially, when VM starts, that function pointer is NULL, and so, >> >> "process events" is NOP. >> > >> > >> > Please don't reinvent the wheel. The Cog source has a variable inIOProcessEvents that controls this. If negative it disables inIOProcessEvents. If non-negative it prevents reentrancy, essential if one is receiving events from the OS. There's a primitive, primitiveEventProcessingControl, to flip it between the enabled and disabled states. >> > >> Yes i seen that. >> But apparently, i don't want to just disable it by putting NULL, but >> also i want to replace it (or wrap it) with own io handler (see >> NativeBoost ;). For that, i need the function pointer. > > > Unlikely. Better to call the relevant function through the FFI. If you're implementing a native gui you don't need the VM involved in deciding when to poll for events. > The idea about function pointer was to move ioProcessEvents into separate plugin. Like that, if you don't build VM with this plugin, you automatically have no UI and no ioProcessEvents, because there's nobody who registers that function. And then platform VM code is no longer obliged to implement that function. For me it is first logical step in decoupling GUI handling from the core VM feature set. While having the flag simply disabling that function from being called. >> > This code has been used for years in the Newspeak system which has a full native GUI on Windows. >> > > > >> >> Does that means that implementation is completely on language side? If >> so, then why you need the rotten window management code in VM? > > > One doesn't need it. It's there and lies unused. > So why you need to keep something which is unused? Especially when it is flawed, limiting and plainly wrong? >> >> Lately, i seen Mars running native GUI (browser window) using Cocoa on >> macs and GTK on linux. >> (but you still have VM window hanging around, and you cannot get rid of it). >> >> > Going your own way creates an unnecessary fork. >> > >> I would love to not reinvent it, but the user input handling is one of >> the weakest spots in current VM implementaion. >> I don't like many things there: >> - VM is in control whether to create window or not >> - VM in control what attributes window has >> - VM in control how to translate OS (native) events to >> "squeak-compatible" events, often losing important bits and making >> everything crawl like hell >> - VM in control when to update/refresh a window >> - VM decides whether it run headless or not >> - VM decides when to handle input events >> list can be continued.. >> >> Personally, i don't like that image assuming that VM has to provide a >> single "default" window >> for it. It is image, which should manage that (if it wants to), but not VM. > > > You don't. But you don't need two VMs either. The existing VM windowing code can coexist with the native GUI code. In fact one can use the old code to debug the new code, and if you're Vassili you can switch an open window from Squeak window to native window and back :) And, what will prevent you from using new API for GUI handling, provided by VM plugin do to the same what Vassili did? And is there a point in future, where you can say "okay, let's throw this out, because it rotten to death and obsolete and there's far better alternative(s)?" Or there's no such point exists? You must know well, that at certain point, if you need to reach higher quality levels in doing something, you must rethink, what tools you will be using (or create new, finer tools). One cannot do DNA engineering using magnifying glass, one needs microscope. Unless we want to prevent people from even considering using smalltalk for something more serious than weekend hobby experiments. Because keeping low-quality infrastructure will make sure it will stay like that. Well, maybe you right, maybe this stuff is not worth touching, but instead it is better to think how to completely circumvent it and let it rot there. But personally, i won't feel happy knowing that VM contains code which nobody uses and sits there waiting for someone who will attempt to run 20-years old images. For me it doesn't makes sense: if you want to run 20-years old image, use 20-years old VM. Compatibility problem solved. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sept. 26, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] No GUI on MacOSX 10.5.8 using Cocoa VM

by Yanni Chiu

On 25/09/12 5:49 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > I don't understand, is this happen only if you "copy" plugin from one > VM to another? I use the VM's as built. A long time ago I tried to "copy" plugins from one place to another, but I could never get it to work (on MacOSX) - so, in my mind that has never been an approach to try anymore. I'll try copying the Inria-built SSL plugin to the Eliot-built VM, and see what happens.

Sept. 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Transform sends to ANSI standard?

by Benoit St-Jean

On 25/09/2012 2:31 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > > Hi folks, > I am rewriting packages to be compatible or more portable between > Smalltalks. Code Critics gives the following information on my packages: > > - #cr, #crlf, #lf, #space, #tab, #findTokens:, ... are not part of the > ANSI string protocol. > > - #cr and #lf are not part of the ANSI stream protocol. > > - The ANSI standard does not support #asInteger and #asString on Object. > > - Some collection methods are not ANSI compatible: #pairsDo:, > #collect:thenDo:, #reject:thenDo:, #detectSum:, #valuesDo:, > #keysSortedSafely, #new:withAll:, etc. > > Does anyone have an idea on how to transform those sends to be ANSI > compatible? Hi Hernan, I don't think being ANSI-compatible should be a goal in any case. You won't find any Smalltalk flavor (commercial or Open Source) that is fully ANSI-compatible. All vendors have their extensions/exceptions/versions. Just have a look at Glorp to convince yourself of differences between Smalltalk implementations! But if your goal is portability, I'd say you should start by having your code compatible with VAST, VW, Dolphin & Squeak. You'll probably cover most of other Smalltalks variants by doing so. The ANSI standard was never, to my knowledge, 100% fully respected by any Smalltalk vendor. Most of them tried to but none of them implemented it with 100% compliance. In other words, just do your best at satisfying compatibility with the most vendors. This one uses Xtreams, the other one Nautilus browser or Zinc, the other one starts Array indices at 1, this other one does this, the other one does that, one uses Smalltalk while the other uses SmalltalkImage, etc. Unfortunately, we're not in the Java world. You'll eventually need a Bundle/Application/Project/Package named "Portability" just like everyone else...

Sept. 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: The roadmap aka fight plan to make image control host window

by Igor Stasenko

On 25 September 2012 19:35, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> First, we need to make one thing: >> >> Change the VM to not call ioProcessEvents function directly, but >> rather use a variable which will hold a function pointer. >> Initially, when VM starts, that function pointer is NULL, and so, >> "process events" is NOP. > > > Please don't reinvent the wheel. The Cog source has a variable inIOProcessEvents that controls this. If negative it disables inIOProcessEvents. If non-negative it prevents reentrancy, essential if one is receiving events from the OS. There's a primitive, primitiveEventProcessingControl, to flip it between the enabled and disabled states. > Yes i seen that. But apparently, i don't want to just disable it by putting NULL, but also i want to replace it (or wrap it) with own io handler (see NativeBoost ;). For that, i need the function pointer. > This code has been used for years in the Newspeak system which has a full native GUI on Windows. > Does that means that implementation is completely on language side? If so, then why you need the rotten window management code in VM? Lately, i seen Mars running native GUI (browser window) using Cocoa on macs and GTK on linux. (but you still have VM window hanging around, and you cannot get rid of it). > Going your own way creates an unnecessary fork. > I would love to not reinvent it, but the user input handling is one of the weakest spots in current VM implementaion. I don't like many things there: - VM is in control whether to create window or not - VM in control what attributes window has - VM in control how to translate OS (native) events to "squeak-compatible" events, often losing important bits and making everything crawl like hell - VM in control when to update/refresh a window - VM decides whether it run headless or not - VM decides when to handle input events list can be continued.. Personally, i don't like that image assuming that VM has to provide a single "default" window for it. It is image, which should manage that (if it wants to), but not VM. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sept. 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] No GUI on MacOSX 10.5.8 using Cocoa VM

by Igor Stasenko

On 25 September 2012 17:33, Yanni Chiu <yanni(a)rogers.com> wrote: > I use Pharo-1.4 using the VM's from > http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/ > > Now I want to use Zodiac, so I need the SSL plugin. The SSL plugin is > pre-built in the VM's from > > https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/Cog-VM/Architecture=32,OS=mac/ > > But, when I run with this CogVM, I get only a blank window (on MacOSX > 10.5.8). When I compared the two executables using "otool -L" it looks like, > from the shared library list, that Eliot's VM is Carbon based, and the > "Pharo" VM is Cocoa based. > I'm not sure what happen. Could be that two VMs have some incompatibility. Usually copying plugins should work. Except that yes, Carbon/Coocan mix and match.. this can have some side effects. > Even though I could only see a blank window, the CPU usage seemed to be > normal (3-5%), so I decided to try accessing the Seaside app that was > already running in the image, and found that it was working fine. Since I > had RFB/VNC loaded, I could enable it, and connect to the image via a VNC > viewer. > > It seems that the image is running in "headless" mode. I tried older Pharo > images, as well as newer/older Pharo CogVM's, and got the same blank window. > > I added some code the the VNCController app to get the remote UI to work. > The code was: > self uiProcess isNil > ifTrue: [ UIManager default: MorphicUIManager new ] > > Even though there's now a MorphicUIManager set, the window is still blank. > > So any ideas? > > Does the VM fall back to headless mode when it cannot init the graphics on > my older MacOS? > > Does the MorphicUIManager need to be set in the startup code, else it's too > late? > I don't understand, is this happen only if you "copy" plugin from one VM to another? > -- > Yanni > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sept. 25, 2012