- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Simulator in Pharo 3

by phil＠highoctane.be

Ron, Sure but at this time, not being able to run the simulator in a full Pharo environment is a severe issue. The key advantage is that the Smalltalk VM is written in itself. Now, what do I experience is that it is hard to embark on VM work. Why? Even if the PharoVMBuilders help in generating and compiling the VM for several platforms (I can build for Windows 8.1, OSX, iOS, Debian 7 etc) this is only one part of the puzzle. The next step, is to understand how things do work for real, the interpret() C loop isn't gonna help me one bit, I need to be able to simulate this one in a Simulator. And I want to do that on the Pharo platform. Currently on 2.0 - this will (again) be fun to get to work on 3.0. I am not in the league of the VM maintainers obviously. But Clement provided me with Eliot's Cog Simulation image, which works for his own work. But only his own. We do not have something like a Configuration to get the same thing. And that's a very acute pain. There are only so many hours in a day, true. So, in order to bring in more people/resources for the VM work, the barrier to entry should be moved a tad down. We tried to have the StackSimulator working for a while (Stephan I'll definitely get your version, thanks for it). This is also because InterpreterSimulator doesn't work anymore and we have to use the StackInterpreter instead (which is complicated already vs pure interpreter). All of this rant to say that having a clean interpreter and a basic image (Maybe PharoKernel/Hazelnut/Boostrapping/Spoon will give us a very simple image to simulate - the whole image isn't really needed. Hopefully Oz will also move us forward on that front). A real Pharo image is overkill for this as a ton of plugins get involved etc. The core system should be the same for Pharo/Squeak/... : VMMaker-MemoryManager VMMaker-Interpreter VMMaker-InterpreterSimulation VMMaker-MemoryManagerSimulation and of course the Slang things (VMMaker-Support and VMMaker-Translation to C). What I'd love to end up with is an embeddable VM that we could hook into other environments, languages etc (a bit like TCL for example). This requires work on how the VM core runs. And to explore this, simulation is needed. Sorry for the long post. I wish I was a millionaire to pour in some cash into the project to speed some areas up. Working on it :-) Maybe should we work in that direction for funding. http://www.gv.com/ where are you? Phil On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Ron Teitelbaum <ron(a)usmedrec.com> wrote: > > Stefan Marr > > > > Hi Eliot: > > > > On 13 Feb 2014, at 05:46, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hmm. What's the easiest way to map this to a Monticello mcz so I can > > integrate your changes back into my packages? > > > > I think the bigger question is whether you actually want to adopt those > things. > > That the vm says in sync should be a core requirement for our communities. > I realize that there is a split. There are some really great advancements > going on in pharo-vm including new build methods and configurations. All > of > that has value if pharo can stay in sync with COG developments. It doesn't > make sense to require Pharo developers to redo Eliot's work or to eliminate > Pharo VM advancements from the Squeak / Newspeak community. The VM is the > one place where we can continue to work together for the benefit of all > three communities. We should not, if at all possible, diverge, lest we > lose > some excellent contributions from some really terrific people, in one or > another community. > > All the best, > Ron Teitelbaum > > > If you skim over the diffs on Github [1], you will probably find that > most > of the > > changes are necessary to adopt Pharo-specific API changes. > > Not sure what the best way forward would be to avoid having the two > Squeak > > and Pharo flavors diverge even more. > > > > I am open to suggestions, don't have a good idea how to properly > 'modularize' > > these differences myself. > > > > Best regards > > Stefan > > > > [1] https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/pull/18 > > > > -- > > Stefan Marr > > INRIA Lille - Nord Europe > > http://stefan-marr.de/research/ > > > > > > > > > > > >

Feb. 13, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Simulator in Pharo 3

by Stefan Marr

Hi Ron: On 13 Feb 2014, at 10:38, Ron Teitelbaum <Ron(a)USMedRec.com> wrote: >> I think the bigger question is whether you actually want to adopt those > things. > > That the vm stays in sync should be a core requirement for our communities. I am with you on that Ron. But I need a technical solution to manage those things. Good intensions are one thing, but how do we do that? Examples: [https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/pull/18/commits] primitiveUpdateGZipCrc32 - self cCode:'' inSmalltalk:[zipCrcTable := CArrayAccessor on: GZipWriteStream crcTable]. + self cCode:â' inSmalltalk:[zipCrcTable := CArrayAccessor on: CRC crc32Table]. primitiveGetAttribute - attribute := Smalltalk getSystemAttribute: attr. + attribute := Smalltalk vm getSystemAttribute: attr. CogVMSimulator>> initialize - 'Display has not yet been installed' asDisplayText form. + 'Display has not yet been installed' asMorph imageForm. ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds - Processor activeProcess == Project uiProcess ifTrue: + Processor activeProcess == UIManager default uiProcess ifTrue: And so far, I only fixed trivial things. Still need to figure out what is going wrong with more recent Pharo images. Best regards Stefan -- Stefan Marr INRIA Lille - Nord Europe http://stefan-marr.de/research/

Feb. 13, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Simulator in Pharo 3

by Ron Teitelbaum

> Stefan Marr > > Hi Eliot: > > On 13 Feb 2014, at 05:46, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hmm. What's the easiest way to map this to a Monticello mcz so I can > integrate your changes back into my packages? > > I think the bigger question is whether you actually want to adopt those things. That the vm says in sync should be a core requirement for our communities. I realize that there is a split. There are some really great advancements going on in pharo-vm including new build methods and configurations. All of that has value if pharo can stay in sync with COG developments. It doesn't make sense to require Pharo developers to redo Eliot's work or to eliminate Pharo VM advancements from the Squeak / Newspeak community. The VM is the one place where we can continue to work together for the benefit of all three communities. We should not, if at all possible, diverge, lest we lose some excellent contributions from some really terrific people, in one or another community. All the best, Ron Teitelbaum > If you skim over the diffs on Github [1], you will probably find that most of the > changes are necessary to adopt Pharo-specific API changes. > Not sure what the best way forward would be to avoid having the two Squeak > and Pharo flavors diverge even more. > > I am open to suggestions, don't have a good idea how to properly 'modularize' > these differences myself. > > Best regards > Stefan > > [1] https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/pull/18 > > -- > Stefan Marr > INRIA Lille - Nord Europe > http://stefan-marr.de/research/ > > > >

Feb. 13, 2014

CI maintenance

by Christophe Demarey

Hi all, The build farm we use for continuous integration is powered by CloudStack. The version currently running is CloudStack 3.0. We will upgrade to CloudStack 4.2, a version supported by the apache community and fixing a lot of bugs. We hope to have a more reliable cloud with this upgrade. It will also allow, in a closed future, a storage extension (almost full at this time). This upgrade will have impacts on the service but we hope that they will be very short. At the end of the morning/beginning of the afternoon, you may notice: ci.inria.fr downtime (need to reboot some servers) cloudstack portal downtime (upgrade) maybe we will need to restart slaves after the upgrade. To summarize, the CI platform (jenkins, slaves) should be available as usual but there may be some downtimes. Thank you for your understanding, Christophe.

Feb. 13, 2014

Shortcuts Tools/Windows

by Nicolai Hess

I miss some shortcuts for opening tools (Browser, Workspace, ...) There is an open Issue (12103) but that slice didn't work for me. And I remember there were some shortcuts for windows (switch, minimize, minimize all, ....) in older Pharo releases, only Ctrl+w for closing windows is working for me. Is this a Win32 only issue, do this shortcuts work for mac or linux? nicolai

Feb. 13, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playing an mp3

by S Krish

Why not link Pharo to mpg through NB to have all the capability required. I gave a shot at it a year back.. seems quite doable, will take about a month's effort max for anyone.. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 1:35 AM, kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As far as I know pharoSound only plays AIF and WAV. Phratch certanly has > MP3 > playing abilities - but I've only tried it on Linux and MP3s do not play. > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Playing-an-mp3-tp4742737p4743093.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Feb. 13, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] GSoC: call for ideas

by Goubier Thierry

Le 12/02/2014 14:40, Camille Teruel a Ã©crit : > Hello, > > Here are my proposals, > > =================================================== > Title: Generic rewriting engine > > Context: > Rewriting is an useful technique that has a lot of applications in many > functional programming language. > A rewriting engine that can rewrite arbitrary graph of objects would > have a lot of useful applications like code refactoring and migration of > instances in an alive program. > > Goal: > The goal of this proposal is to implement a rewriting engine for > arbitrary tree/graph of object. > A rewriting rule must be able to define: > - Patterns to match a part of the graph possibly including metavariables > (variables that match subparts of the matched part) > - Transformation of the matched part using the metavariables > The engine is parametrized with a set of rules an a traversal of the > graph (look at > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/traversal-enabled-pharo-objects for ideas). > Inspirations can be found in the pattern-matching library of Newspeak: > (http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/publications/media/GellerHirschfel…) > > Skill level: intermediate > Dialect: Free > Mentor: Camille Teruel I think that SmaCC 2.0.3[1] has already a language agnostic generic rewriting engine[2] (including a client/server and batch implementation if you have a few hundreds of thousands of lines to rewrite:)). [1] http://www.refactoryworkers.com/SmaCC.html [2] http://www.refactoryworkers.com/SmaCC/Transformations.html I'd say that for such things, the approach is usually to define a DSL, either the refactoring pattern language of RB, or, a bit newer, the SmPL of Coccinelle[3]. [3] http://coccinelle.lip6.fr/ The similarities between Coccinelle and RB are surprising on that level. Regards, Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Feb. 13, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Simulator in Pharo 3

by Stefan Marr

Hi Eliot: On 13 Feb 2014, at 05:46, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hmm. Whatâs the easiest way to map this to a Monticello mcz so I can integrate your changes back into my packages? I think the bigger question is whether you actually want to adopt those things. If you skim over the diffs on Github [1], you will probably find that most of the changes are necessary to adopt Pharo-specific API changes. Not sure what the best way forward would be to avoid having the two Squeak and Pharo flavors diverge even more. I am open to suggestions, donât have a good idea how to properly âmodularizeâ these differences myselfâ¦ Best regards Stefan [1] https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/pull/18 -- Stefan Marr INRIA Lille - Nord Europe http://stefan-marr.de/research/

Feb. 13, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] 100% CPU usage on image resume

by Holger Hans Peter Freyther

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:31:56PM +0100, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Holger, Dear Sven, thanks a lot for your answer. > > The entire process list is below. My assumption is that the >>fireTimers: > > method is actually being executed. The best thing I found was to use SIGUSR1 > > to sample which processes run. My assumption is that this process runs before > > DateAndTime has been re-initialized by the SmalltalkImage. > > Now, you do agree that you are doing tricky stuff, right ? You play with timers, timestamps and delays in a process that you expect to keep running over image save/resume ;-) The timers work with absolute time and the code is working fine with GNU Smalltalk for years (with image save/resume). I think the only thing weird in Pharo is that (Delay forSeconds: 1) wait will wait forever on image resume but IIRC this is a known issue/feature. > > I think a better approach would be to subscribe to image #shutDown: and #startUp: events (trace these selectors for examples). With these you can cleanly stop your process on image save and restart it when the image resumes. I think all long running processes work that way. I have implemented your proposal and I think the problem will go away with that. To me this sounds a bit like a work-around. Do you agree? I think something like: [[DateAndTime now] repeat] fork could re-produce the issue. It can either get stuck inside the Delay created from within >>#now or in this mysterious loop that takes all the CPU and doesn't allow me to interact with the image anymore. It would be nice to fully understand why this process runs away and no other process will be scheduled. I don't know how the ProcessorScheduler works in Pharo and when/if a method is pre-empted. Is there any guarantee that the StartUpList will be executed before any other process will be scheduled? From quick browsing it seems that the SmalltalkImage code does not suspend all the other processes? kind regards holger

Feb. 13, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] PostID success story video

by Marcus Denker

I added it to the todoâ¦ will do it some of the next days as a news entry, too. On 13 Feb 2014, at 00:17, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Anyone able to add the "PostID Software Development Toolkit" > (created using Pharo at Pinesoft) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izg_Dr2Cg7k&feature=youtu.be > > to the success story page at http://www.pharo-project.org/about/success-stories >

Feb. 13, 2014