- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] The importance of Class Comments

by kilon alios

" It sounds a bit like there is no documentation at all" Î never implied this, and I refuse to believe that my wording can sound like that. I just say that the class comments are usually too small and many important classes are not documented at all. I don't know why you think I targeted you specifically with my comments. "terrible parts" is not the word I will use. I find the lack of documentation frustrating but that does not make the classes themselves "terrible". Pharo has its fair share of messy code but I have failed to see something I would call terrible. Its awesome that you spent large amount of time documenting, but all I said is that documenting key classes in the range of 10-15 lines each should not take a lot of time and pharo developers should do it. Thats my opinion, you are more than welcome to disagree or ignore it. I am willing to help any way I can. I am not willing to put blame on people. I do feel however because I believe I am a logical person that people that are introduced to Pharo will be disappointed in this department as I am. I think this is unfair to Pharo, because you guys have put a lot of effort in it that partly goes to waste. Imagine what would happen if people had easy access to the libraries , how many more would contribute and help pharo. I cannot imagine where I would be if there was no PBE or PFTE or the class comments that already are in there. For me any form of documentation is like bread and butter. Am I unreasonable ? I hope not. On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I am a bit offended by the generalisations in your remarks, Kilon. It > sounds a bit like there is no documentation at all. > > There are several books, covering many of the high level aspects. > > There is lots of documentation in the image, many class comments are > pretty good, as are many method comments - even quite a lot of > implementation comments can be found. > > OK, there are some terrible parts as well, and some people seems to make a > sport out of _not_ writing any comments at all - please call them out > specifically, but don't generalise. > > I have spent a large amount of time documenting all code that I published > as well as writing separate high level documentation and tutorials for most > of it as well as for Pharo in general. I know many others who did the same. > > On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:10, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > > I have not worked with spec a lot, but I think that itâs nice in terms > of comments, they are very helpful. Also lately Iâve worked with Roassal2 - > no comments at all, but you can ask Alex for help :) > > > > Uko > > > > On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> yes good idea Damien , thank you. Right now I am working with Rubric > building a new workspace tool basing it on the rubric example. Spec and > Morphic are on my list too. > >> > >> Should I open also an issue on the bug tracker with a slice of my class > comment ? Or is posting it here enough ? > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Damien Cassou < > damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:10 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Saying that I will start adding class comments wherever I can but > obviously the people that have created the code are far more qualified than > me . > >> > >> > >> I suggest that you ask on this mailing list when you would like to have > documentation on a class and you can't write it yourself. That way, we all > will read the answer. Hopefully, someone, will merge this and write a class > comment. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Damien Cassou > >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > >> > >> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > >> Winston Churchill > >> > > > > >

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] vm over android

by ClÃ©ment Bera

2014-06-20 10:16 GMT+02:00 Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz>: > Hi, > > > Yes there is a business interest of running on ARM processors. Some of >> the big companies use smalltalk on their own hardware for very specific >> tasks, and they are now constraint to use x86 processor due to smalltalk. >> >> There are other smalltalks that run on non-x86 && non-amd64 machines. > Smalltalk ~~ Pharo :-) Yes, yes sorry. I wrote it the right way in the mail before this one. "Pharo can run on ARM processor on the contrary to several other smalltalks" Some smalltalks cannot run on ARM, but some can. Squeak, Pharo and GNU Smalltalk can run on ARM for example. I don't know about Smalltalk/X. > > > Jan > >

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cloudfork HMAC-SHA256 in System-Hashing

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

OK, thanks, I will have a look. On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:56, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Max, > > Yes, it's usable as the SHA1 package already there (without HMAC so). I'm no expert in those stuff but I don't get "SHA256 base implementation". Someone with more knowledge can probably tell ;) > > Sven, > > The bare minimum to load it is: > > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'JanVanDeSandt' project: 'Cloudfork'; > package: 'Cloudfork-Common'; > package: 'Cloudfork-Pharo-Platform'; > load. > > The implementation is in Cloudfork-Pharo-Platform. > > > > On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I want to have a look, if you tell me where to look... > > On 19 Jun 2014, at 18:03, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 19.06.2014, at 17:59, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Does it make sense from a license point of view and practical point of view to include the CloudFork HMAC-SHA256 implementation (CFSH256 class) in the System-Hashing package (in where there's already SHA1 and MD5) ? > > > > Can Cloudfork HMAC-SHA256 be easily parameterized with, say, an SHA256 base implementation? Or does it require extra stuff? In the former case I probably wouldnât add it. In the latter case itâs open for discussion. Personally, I think it belongs into a separate package, not into System-Hashing. > > > > Cheers, > > Max > > >

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cloudfork HMAC-SHA256 in System-Hashing

by FranÃ§ois Stephany

Max, Yes, it's usable as the SHA1 package already there (without HMAC so). I'm no expert in those stuff but I don't get "SHA256 base implementation". Someone with more knowledge can probably tell ;) Sven, The bare minimum to load it is: Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'JanVanDeSandt' project: 'Cloudfork'; package: 'Cloudfork-Common'; package: 'Cloudfork-Pharo-Platform'; load. The implementation is in Cloudfork-Pharo-Platform. On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I want to have a look, if you tell me where to look... > > On 19 Jun 2014, at 18:03, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 19.06.2014, at 17:59, FranÃ§ois Stephany <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> Does it make sense from a license point of view and practical point of > view to include the CloudFork HMAC-SHA256 implementation (CFSH256 class) in > the System-Hashing package (in where there's already SHA1 and MD5) ? > > > > Can Cloudfork HMAC-SHA256 be easily parameterized with, say, an SHA256 > base implementation? Or does it require extra stuff? In the former case I > probably wouldnât add it. In the latter case itâs open for discussion. > Personally, I think it belongs into a separate package, not into > System-Hashing. > > > > Cheers, > > Max > > >

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The importance of Class Comments

by Yuriy Tymchuk

On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:45, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I am a bit offended by the generalisations in your remarks, Kilon. It sounds a bit like there is no documentation at all. > > There are several books, covering many of the high level aspects. > > There is lots of documentation in the image, many class comments are pretty good, as are many method comments - even quite a lot of implementation comments can be found. > > OK, there are some terrible parts as well, and some people seems to make a sport out of _not_ writing any comments at all - please call them out specifically, but don't generalise. Thantâs why we have to reject slices without commented classes :). Anyway I hope that red exclamation marks to their job. Uko > > I have spent a large amount of time documenting all code that I published as well as writing separate high level documentation and tutorials for most of it as well as for Pharo in general. I know many others who did the same. > > On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:10, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > >> I have not worked with spec a lot, but I think that itâs nice in terms of comments, they are very helpful. Also lately Iâve worked with Roassal2 - no comments at all, but you can ask Alex for help :) >> >> Uko >> >> On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> yes good idea Damien , thank you. Right now I am working with Rubric building a new workspace tool basing it on the rubric example. Spec and Morphic are on my list too. >>> >>> Should I open also an issue on the bug tracker with a slice of my class comment ? Or is posting it here enough ? >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:10 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Saying that I will start adding class comments wherever I can but obviously the people that have created the code are far more qualified than me . >>> >>> >>> I suggest that you ask on this mailing list when you would like to have documentation on a class and you can't write it yourself. That way, we all will read the answer. Hopefully, someone, will merge this and write a class comment. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." >>> Winston Churchill >>> >> > >

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The importance of Class Comments

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

I am a bit offended by the generalisations in your remarks, Kilon. It sounds a bit like there is no documentation at all. There are several books, covering many of the high level aspects. There is lots of documentation in the image, many class comments are pretty good, as are many method comments - even quite a lot of implementation comments can be found. OK, there are some terrible parts as well, and some people seems to make a sport out of _not_ writing any comments at all - please call them out specifically, but don't generalise. I have spent a large amount of time documenting all code that I published as well as writing separate high level documentation and tutorials for most of it as well as for Pharo in general. I know many others who did the same. On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:10, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > I have not worked with spec a lot, but I think that itâs nice in terms of comments, they are very helpful. Also lately Iâve worked with Roassal2 - no comments at all, but you can ask Alex for help :) > > Uko > > On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> yes good idea Damien , thank you. Right now I am working with Rubric building a new workspace tool basing it on the rubric example. Spec and Morphic are on my list too. >> >> Should I open also an issue on the bug tracker with a slice of my class comment ? Or is posting it here enough ? >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:10 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Saying that I will start adding class comments wherever I can but obviously the people that have created the code are far more qualified than me . >> >> >> I suggest that you ask on this mailing list when you would like to have documentation on a class and you can't write it yourself. That way, we all will read the answer. Hopefully, someone, will merge this and write a class comment. >> >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." >> Winston Churchill >> >

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Configuration Browser and Pharo4

by Stephan Eggermont

Nicolai wrote: >How can I make configurations from >MetaRepoPharo30 work on Pharo4? Go to ci.pharo.org/pharo-contributions, log in, select a build, edit the configuration and add a Pharo4 build. Click build now, and fix the build when needed. When it is green (and works), copy the configuration to MetaRepoForPharo40 Report or complain on the mailing list. Most common problem is a configuration that refers to #'pharo3.x' that should be #(#'pharo3.x' #'pharo4.x') Stephan

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] vm over android

by Jan Vrany

Hi, > Yes there is a business interest of running on ARM processors. Some of > the big companies use smalltalk on their own hardware for very specific > tasks, and they are now constraint to use x86 processor due to smalltalk. > There are other smalltalks that run on non-x86 && non-amd64 machines. Smalltalk ~~ Pharo :-) Jan

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] The importance of Class Comments

by Yuriy Tymchuk

I have not worked with spec a lot, but I think that itâs nice in terms of comments, they are very helpful. Also lately Iâve worked with Roassal2 - no comments at all, but you can ask Alex for help :) Uko On 20 Jun 2014, at 10:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > yes good idea Damien , thank you. Right now I am working with Rubric building a new workspace tool basing it on the rubric example. Spec and Morphic are on my list too. > > Should I open also an issue on the bug tracker with a slice of my class comment ? Or is posting it here enough ? > > > On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:10 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Saying that I will start adding class comments wherever I can but obviously the people that have created the code are far more qualified than me . > > > I suggest that you ask on this mailing list when you would like to have documentation on a class and you can't write it yourself. That way, we all will read the answer. Hopefully, someone, will merge this and write a class comment. > > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill >

June 20, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] vm over android

by ClÃ©ment Bera

2014-06-19 18:35 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Clement, > > 2014-06-19 12:52 GMT-03:00 ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com>: > > 2014-06-18 15:39 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > > >> Can you share what is the intended use of the android vm that you're > >> building? > > > - Deploying application on Android > > - Proving to big customers Pharo can run on ARM processor on the > contrary to > > several other smalltalks > > What kind of applications? Is there an business interest of running on > ARM processors? Is there a sale advantage of having this? I don't want > to sound too inquisitive nor pedantic, those are real questions. > Yes there is a business interest of running on ARM processors. Some of the big companies use smalltalk on their own hardware for very specific tasks, and they are now constraint to use x86 processor due to smalltalk. In addition for some big projects management checks how the environment is compatible to other platforms, and they can check "running on ARM, Android, iOS, ..." > > As stated in previous mails, running on the platform is a technical > challenge per se (I couldn't make it if I wanted), but it's just a > very small part of "deploying to Android". And I'm not talking about > app stores. > I agree. I want to run on ARM, not necessarily and Android. > > Even though Android (AOSP) is Linux based, the memory/battery > constraints makes that apps or services lifecycle completely > different to regular unix processes. And I don't see how this fits > into the whole android environment. Last time I tried (+1yr) it the VM > was a permanent process, without access to device sensors, etc.[*] > Yeah. This should be fixed. This is a VM bug to me. There are other VMs out there that consume less battery by not using the CPU at all when all its processes are in idle. I don't have time now but one day of no one has done it, I'll try to fix it. > > I have a genuine interest in this topic, because my company depends > both on Pharo and Android (native) software. > > But how I see this, the advantage of Pharo running on Android for > devices other than phones/tablets, more kind of "internet of things" > devices. The advantage is also that the image is an asset of the vm, > so you can update your app without having to reinstall it through the > platform app management. > There is also this direction. Running on ARM is very important to be cross platform. That includes connected objects, the raspberry pie, and many other devices. > > Please don't let this stop you guys from doing this VM even for the > fun/sake of doing it. > But as you are making this public, I feel allowed to ask questions and > add comments. You can simply ignore them. :) > > Regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > [*] Several years ago I took a private course of "mobile squeak", and > even compiled a modified squeak VM for WinCE, running MVC based UIs. > Back then Squeak UI was way better than WinCE's, even for "business > apps". Now I think mobile expectations changed. > >

June 20, 2014