- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] EyeInspector with subclasses of ProtoObject

by Tudor Girba

Yep. Got it. See my other mail about integrating the reflection methods in Context. This would be enough to get the GTInspector working properly (we already did it but we cannot commit because of missing Context methods). Cheers, Doru > On Nov 19, 2015, at 5:53 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2015-11-19 15:31 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > > Please tell me more specifically what needs to be done. Could you give me a concrete example of an object that cannot be inspected? > > Try this code: > > GTInspector inspect: ProtoObject new > > Then you can try with instance of subclasses of ProtoObjects with different properties. For example: > > ProtoObject variableSubclass: #ProtoArray > instanceVariableNames: '' > classVariableNames: '' > category: 'Kernel-Objects' > > GTInspector inspect: (ProtoArray new: 3) > > Lastly you can try the hard cases. For example run: > > ProtoArray superclass: nil. > GTInspector inspect: (ProtoArray new: 3) > > The generic problem is that these objects cannot be expected to answer any message, as it can crash the VM, so inspection should happen without the object inspected receiving any message. > > > Cheers, > Tudor > > > > On Nov 18, 2015, at 6:08 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2015-11-18 13:29 GMT-03:00 ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com>: > >> > >> > >> 2015-11-18 8:43 GMT-03:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > >>> > >>> Iâd like to discuss also the possibility to add those low level operations > >>> on mirrors objects, that could be packaged separately from the kernel of the > >>> language. Adding them on a first step is easy, then making all tools use > >>> them is the hard/timeconsuming part, yes. > >> > >> > >> All the needed operations already exist. You can put them on your mirror > >> objects without any problem. > > > > > > Who takes the decision to put it either in EyeInspector or GtInspector? > > > > Regards! > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get." > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."

Nov. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] EyeInspector with subclasses of ProtoObject

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I looked at the problem with Esteban. Essentially, we would benefit a lot from the Context mirror methods that Eliot sent. We can still imagine a mirror object on top of that, but already they would provide a good enough support. Do we agree to add these methods to Pharo? Cheers, Doru > On Nov 19, 2015, at 3:31 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Please tell me more specifically what needs to be done. Could you give me a concrete example of an object that cannot be inspected? > > Cheers, > Tudor > > >> On Nov 18, 2015, at 6:08 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> 2015-11-18 13:29 GMT-03:00 ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> >>> 2015-11-18 8:43 GMT-03:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> Iâd like to discuss also the possibility to add those low level operations >>>> on mirrors objects, that could be packaged separately from the kernel of the >>>> language. Adding them on a first step is easy, then making all tools use >>>> them is the hard/timeconsuming part, yes. >>> >>> >>> All the needed operations already exist. You can put them on your mirror >>> objects without any problem. >> >> >> Who takes the decision to put it either in EyeInspector or GtInspector? >> >> Regards! >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get." > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Yesterday is a fact. Tomorrow is a possibility. Today is a challenge."

Nov. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] EyeInspector with subclasses of ProtoObject

by ClÃ©ment Bera

2015-11-19 15:31 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > > Please tell me more specifically what needs to be done. Could you give me > a concrete example of an object that cannot be inspected? > Try this code: GTInspector inspect: ProtoObject new Then you can try with instance of subclasses of ProtoObjects with different properties. For example: ProtoObject variableSubclass: #ProtoArray instanceVariableNames: '' classVariableNames: '' category: 'Kernel-Objects' GTInspector inspect: (ProtoArray new: 3) Lastly you can try the hard cases. For example run: ProtoArray superclass: nil. GTInspector inspect: (ProtoArray new: 3) The generic problem is that these objects cannot be expected to answer any message, as it can crash the VM, so inspection should happen without the object inspected receiving any message. > Cheers, > Tudor > > > > On Nov 18, 2015, at 6:08 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > 2015-11-18 13:29 GMT-03:00 ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com>: > >> > >> > >> 2015-11-18 8:43 GMT-03:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > >>> > >>> Iâd like to discuss also the possibility to add those low level > operations > >>> on mirrors objects, that could be packaged separately from the kernel > of the > >>> language. Adding them on a first step is easy, then making all tools > use > >>> them is the hard/timeconsuming part, yes. > >> > >> > >> All the needed operations already exist. You can put them on your mirror > >> objects without any problem. > > > > > > Who takes the decision to put it either in EyeInspector or GtInspector? > > > > Regards! > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get." > > > > >

Nov. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] EyeInspector with subclasses of ProtoObject

by ClÃ©ment Bera

2015-11-19 10:33 GMT+01:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > I know we can :) and I did some prototypes already as part of my thesis. > > The question is if that is a design we *want* or not. > There is a misunderstanding. I am not talking about prototypes. The operations are in the production VM and are stable. That's why I say you can use it. There is no need to implement additional VM support to debug this kind of objects as it's already done and stable. > > > On 18 nov 2015, at 5:29 p.m., ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2015-11-18 8:43 GMT-03:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > >> Iâd like to discuss also the possibility to add those low level >> operations on mirrors objects, that could be packaged separately from the >> kernel of the language. Adding them on a first step is easy, then making >> all tools use them is the hard/timeconsuming part, yes. >> > > All the needed operations already exist. You can put them on your mirror > objects without any problem. > > > >> On 18 nov 2015, at 12:35 p.m., ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> This is known and was discussed on the bug tracker. >> >> The problem is that currently Pharo has many tools and classes: >> EyeInspector in the debugger, GTInspector outside, the debugger itself, the >> in-image interpreter in the Context class ... that need to be changed to >> support debugging objects that basically cannot receive any message. >> >> We are aware of the solution but fixing it for all the toolkits and >> classes is quite some work. In addition, if not tested, someone will break >> it because he won't understand that an inspected object can't receive any >> message because the expected behavior of an object with no DNU behavior and >> no methods inherited from Object is to freeze the system. >> >> It's a lot of fun doing that though. >> >> Clement >> >> 2015-11-17 21:39 GMT-03:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Hi Esteban, >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo < >>> emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> 2015-11-17 14:37 GMT-03:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: >>>> > Hi Esteban, >>>> > >>>> > I think EyeInspector needs to handle classes that don't inherit from >>>> > Object specially. Instead of asking the instance it should ask the >>>> class. >>>> > You should be able to use the Context methods for mirror primitives to >>>> > extract state without sending messages to the instance. Then the >>>> special >>>> > version of EyeInspector for ProtoObject subclasses can ask this like >>>> >>>> Yes, an special inspector for ProtoObject subclasses would be required, >>>> but I couldn't find one already suited for this purpose. >>>> >>>> > (thisContext objectClass: object) isIndexable ifTrue: >>>> > [size := thisContext objectSize: object] >>>> >>>> I don't know if your code was meant to be accurate or just a guideline >>>> of how this could be implemented, but Context doesn't implement >>>> #objectClass: nor #objectSize: >>>> >>> >>> Find attached. I think you'll find they are in the Spur version. You >>> might think of back-porting their use in Context form Spur; that'll make >>> the debugger able to handle proxies. >>> >>> > Basically both the Inspector and the Debugger's execution simulation >>>> > machinery need to treat encapsulators such as MessageArchiver with kid >>>> > gloves. One *must not* cause inspecting or debugging to send messages >>>> > through the encapsulator. Instead, all access to the object should be >>>> > through primitives that don't send messages to the objects. >>>> >>>> I know that dealing with Proxies and similar objects is tricky, I had >>>> to deal with my own subclasses of ProtoObject in Dolphin, but there the >>>> class implemented all that was needed to interact with the environment >>>> tools. >>>> >>>> Hiwever, to me all this is a kind of black magic, I read the blue book >>>> years ago and can understand it, but I do understand it as I understand the >>>> mechanics of my car, however when it breaks down I take it to the >>>> specialist :) >>>> >>> Well, the thing to think of is that inside the VM objects are just a >>> sequence of words, and the VM, while it sends messages, doesn't send >>> messages to objects to update their state; it just accesses the state >>> directly. So in an execution simulation method such as >>> >>> Context methods for instruction decoding >>> pushReceiverVariable: offset >>> self push: (receiver instVarAt: offset + 1) >>> >>> that will send the message instVarAt: to the receiver, and if the >>> receiver is a proxy, that will go through the proixie's doesNotUnderstand: >>> method and send instVarAt: the the object the proxy wraps, which won't do >>> the right thing at all. Instead it needs to be written >>> >>> Context methods for instruction decoding >>> pushReceiverVariable: offset >>> self push: (self object: receiver instVarAt: offset + 1) >>> >>> which reaches into the object without sending any messages to it. I >>> understand that this will appear in Spur, because I made it part of the >>> bootstrap, but if I were you I would integrate these changes into the >>> current version asap. The debugger won't work properly with proxies, >>> encapsulators etc otherwise. >>> >>> _,,,^..^,,,_ >>> best, Eliot >>> >> >> >> > >

Nov. 19, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/50454 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Nov. 19, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core] a5e4ed: 50454

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/5.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: a5e4eddae752faa22b0453fe3689b7deadb29569 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/a5e4eddae752faa22b0453fe… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2015-11-19 (Thu, 19 Nov 2015) Changed paths: R Nautilus-GroupManager.package/GroupsAlreadyExist.class/README.md R Nautilus-GroupManager.package/GroupsAlreadyExist.class/class/instance creation/groupName_.st R Nautilus-GroupManager.package/GroupsAlreadyExist.class/definition.st R Nautilus-GroupManager.package/GroupsAlreadyExist.class/instance/accessing/groupName.st R Nautilus-GroupManager.package/GroupsAlreadyExist.class/instance/accessing/groupName_.st R Nautilus-GroupManager.package/extension/OrderedCollection/instance/removeDuplicates.st M Nautilus.package/AbstractNautilusUI.class/instance/displaying/open.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRBytecodeGenerator.class/instance/instructions/label_.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRBytecodeGenerator.class/instance/instructions/pushClosureCopyNumCopiedValues_numArgs_to_.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRBytecodeGenerator.class/instance/instructions/pushNClosureTemps_.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRClosureStackCount.class/README.md A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRClosureStackCount.class/class/instance creation/newOn_.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRClosureStackCount.class/definition.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRClosureStackCount.class/instance/accessing/length.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRClosureStackCount.class/instance/accessing/numMethodTempVars.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRClosureStackCount.class/instance/accessing/numMethodTempVars_.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRClosureStackCount.class/instance/initialization/initialize.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRStackCount.class/class/instance creation/newOn_.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRStackCount.class/instance/results/linkTo_.st R Reflectivity.package/Breakpoint.class/instance/api/break_withArguments_.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50453.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script50454.st R ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50453.st A ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update50454.st M ScriptLoader50.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M SmartSuggestions.package/SugsBreakAlwaysSuggestion.class/instance/accessing/label.st M SmartSuggestions.package/SugsBreakAlwaysSuggestion.class/instance/execution/execute.st M SmartSuggestions.package/SugsBreakConditionSuggestion.class/instance/breakpoints/breakpointForCondition.st M SmartSuggestions.package/SugsBreakOnceSuggestion.class/instance/accessing/label.st M SmartSuggestions.package/SugsBreakOnceSuggestion.class/instance/execution/execute.st Log Message: ----------- 50454 13854 frameSize calculated wrongly for #lineSegmentsDo: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13854 17055 simplify Breakpoint API and menu entries a little https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17055 17052 Small cleanup GroupManager model https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17052 17051 browsing a method directly via spotter does not show visualization of breakpoints if it has any breakpoint https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17051 http://files.pharo.org/image/50/50454.zip

Nov. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Preparing for the (already here) future world of multi-core PCs

by Craig Latta

> Maybe a 'pack' of Seasides is the wrong collective. > A 'shoreline' of Seasides? A 'coast'? An archipelago. -C -- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)

Nov. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalkhub: Cannot add user to team: "Invalid username or password"

by Mariano Martinez Peck

WTF... I had my user remember in Chrome.. clicking Logout would do NOTHING. There was no way of logging out unless I clear everything from chrome... Then, opened firefox, login fresh, and yeah, I was able to edit team..wtf. #WindowsLikeTipsDoWork :) Thanks! On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Did you try logging out and in of SmalltalkHub? > > #WindowsLikeTips :-o > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2015-11-19 12:07 GMT-03:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > no one? :( > > > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck > > <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi guys, > >> > >> I am trying to add a registered user into my team via Edit Team -> add > >> button and I get a "Invalid username or password" error. Note that I > >> selected the user from the autocomplete... so the username should be > >> correct. > >> > >> Any ideas? > >> > >> -- > >> Mariano > >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Nov. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] News about FastTable

by Thierry Goubier

2015-11-19 15:46 GMT+01:00 Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl>: > On 19/11/15 13:17, Thierry Goubier wrote: > >> Maybe. I haven't checked if the rule above holds for multi-selection. >> > > Looking in some more detail at it, the behaviour of Thunderbird seems > incorrect. Collapse and expand should restore the selection. I might want > to add en element to the selection that is much easier reached by > collapsing a subtree. Thunderbird loses the selection, and doesn't indicate > how much of the subtree is selected. Hum, it may be an interesting feature to have. But... I have a very clear idea of how complex that feature you are asking for is to implement properly in the general case and I won't consider implementing it if there is no strong justification for it. I'd prefer FTTree to get the basics right and, maybe, let the application track down that level of complexity if needed(*). I do find the FT core code to already carry far too much features (search, filtering) for my confort. (*) In no less part because it may make the component very slow for very large trees, so I'd consider this is an application level decision to implement such a feature, because the application knows if it is dealing with large or small trees. > > Maybe it could be left to the application using the widget, >> but, even at that level, writing it properly is hard (and it would be >> good that the toolkit provides for proper behavior to make the life of >> the application designer easier). >> > > The best way to ensure consistency is to make it easy to do the right > thing, yes. But be reasonable in what you ask. As far as I can see, FT doesn't have a proper drag and drop behavior yet. Thierry > > > Stephan > > >

Nov. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Preparing for the (already here) future world of multi-core PCs

by EuanM

Maybe a 'pack' of Seasides is the wrong collective. A 'shoreline' of Seasides? A 'coast'? On 19 November 2015 at 15:22, EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: > There are also uses that don't involve the GPU - any headless server > use, e.g. running a pack of headless Seasides. > > Ways to deal with the machine becoming IO bound is definitely one of > the key issues. > > I'm not saying anything is preventing it - I'm saying that one of the > key enablers are tools to support it. > > On 19 November 2015 at 12:58, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Now days the real CPU is the GPU. Most of the acceleration and parrarel >> computing happens in there. >> >> Eventhough my fellow pharo collogues are mostly purists that prefer >> everything implemented in Pharo I am a parasitist preffering to leach off >> any technology I can find, my favourite choice being python. Its possible to >> use my socket bridge to bridge pharo with python in a few dozen lines of >> code to access to 2 python libraries, multiprocessing and foremost PyCuda so >> you can both take advantage the multiple cores of a CPU and an GPU though >> GPU should be your prime focus if you want considerably speed ups to your >> code. >> >> So none stops a pharoers making code that runs on multiple CPU and GPUs , >> all it takes is a bit of imagination and an open mind. Sometimes the >> quickest way to reach a goal is not a straight line . >> >> The truth however is even I that works with 3d graphics I find myself barely >> needing 1 CPU core, so you need to first make sure that you need such a >> feature before implementing it. >> >> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 4:19 AM EuanM <euanmee(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I agree that parallelism and concurrency are different things. >>> >>> For easy parallelism : >>> - a multi-VM version of something like PharoLauncher. >>> - tools for tailor each VM + Image >>> - tools to manage and track each running VM + Image. >>> - tolls to try to mak sure that different running VMs and images have >>> their own core, and that VMs can be closed down so that VMs never are >>> sharing (unless you want them to) >>> >>> All we need to do is make sure that the VM and image don't have >>> baked-in assumptions about being the only VM on the physical machine >>> baked in to each VM and the Smalltalk above it.) >>> >>> The task for the end-user app developers then becomes seeing what >>> bundles of functionality are sufficiently decoupled from the others >>> that they can be set adrift in their own VM. >>> >>> (I'm even starting to think of reinventing the multi-user server. A >>> single 16 core PC, with 16 4-core Raspberry Pis connected, and each >>> RPi's user taking control of a single app on a single VM single core >>> on the PC). >>> >>> (Then you could have a quite a decent network for $140 per workstation >>> (PiCEED + keyboard + mouse) , and one fast laptop as the central >>> server Cheap, and easy to transport to remote locations. (But I >>> digress) >>> >>> >>> Concurrency is a deeper and harder problem for a Smalltalk, I agree. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 18 November 2015 at 23:36, Michael J. Forster <mike(a)sharedlogic.ca> >>> wrote: >>> > This is no small issue, nor a single one. >>> > >>> > Be careful to distinguish concurrency from parallelism. See Rob Pike's >>> > talk/slides on this. >>> > >>> > Note that many systems can benefit from a concurrent design--even on a >>> > single core, where no parallel execution is possible--because the >>> > problem is >>> > inherently concurrent; note how effectively shared-nothing approaches >>> > with >>> > Erlang, Go, or Scala/Akka have been used in such domains. >>> > >>> > In other domains, parallelism--especially nested data parallelism--is >>> > more >>> > important than concurrency (see >>> > >>> > http://yosefk.com/blog/parallelism-and-concurrency-need-different-tools.html) >>> > The Haskell and other communities have been exploring this with shared >>> > memory approaches like STM. >>> > >>> > So, to better use the slowing but increasing number of cores in today's >>> > hardware, we need to understand the many very different use cases and >>> > approaches. The lowest-hanging fruit in the Pharo/Squeak world might be >>> > to >>> > rework the vm and process scheduler to support massive numbers of >>> > lighter >>> > weight processes similar to Erlang. Check out Andrew Blacks "Erlang in >>> > Pharo", http://www.squeaksource.com/Erlang.html. >>> > >>> > Best, >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > View this message in context: >>> > http://forum.world.st/Preparing-for-the-already-here-future-world-of-multi-… >>> > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>> > Nabble.com. >>> > >>> >>

Nov. 19, 2015