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Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside-dev] preliminary Seaside 2.9 alphauniverse

by Keith Hodges

> > 100% agree. This is why I'm saying that we want to integrate extensions > or reject them. > >> If it doesn't meet those criteria, I don't consider it safe to even >> experiment with. However, if the base system doesnt support loading and unloading of things in the first place, its a bit unfair to expect a package to be unloadable, when its purpose is to fix the base package so as to be able to support loading and unloading. Once everything we use has LPF (or equivalent) then it is reasonable to expect loading an unloading to work. I admit that Kernel-Extensions has become bloated with more than just the minimum, however it has the advantage of being version controlled which changesets are not. Keith

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside-dev] preliminary Seaside 2.9 alphauniverse

by Keith Hodges

> Now, the code may work perfectly fine, and Keith's done a lot of work, but > it's just not community friendly code. A package should have a clear > responsibility, few dependencies, not too many extensions, no overrides if > at all possible, and must install and uninstall cleanly without hosing my > system. If it doesn't meet those criteria, I don't consider it safe to even > experiment with. > > Ramon Leon > http://onsmalltalk.com > If it uses overrides, the MC1.5 should be able to uninstall it. However MC1.5 probably depends upon it. So you are probably stuck there. Kernel-Extensions are not supposed to be removed, they are supposed to be integrated into the main image. We have two ways of doing this. We are slowly breaking it down into bug fixes on mantis, however these are changesets and are not removeable either. Keith

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside-dev] preliminary Seaside 2.9 alpha universe

by Keith Hodges

> I agree that Universes is not the ultimate solution, but at least it > seems to work reasonably well. I like the declarative way to > specifying package dependencies. > > Cheers, > Lukas > > Sake/Packages has been changed to be declarative for the most part, though it isn't restricted to that. Keith

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside-dev] preliminary Seaside 2.9 alpha universe

by Keith Hodges

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi Damien > > I can give you an explanation but keith will not like it. > Note that I like the ideas that he is pushing and that I started to > write a chapter for the next book on installer. > - Keith idea that everybody can build its own distribution is not > something that everybody like It is what the community has been talking about and doing for the past few years. I started by providing a Seaside-Magma-Pier image, now instead I can provide a Seaside-Magma-Pier entry in Sake/Packages which will work in any image that the squeak community typically uses. There are people now building one-click Pier images, and one click Seaside images, but this is going back to doing it the old way, and it will not be generally useful, since every major project builds their own image. For example Gjallar, Sophie, WebStore (my Project) etc. > - For example I would like to have a real look at MC1.6 but the > message around it is blurry I am sure that Matthew will be able to make the message clearer, in the meantime please do not overlook the months of work that have gone into MC1.5. > I tried LFP and it broke on me. That was simply the wiki complaining that it was being hit too hard. LPF has been working for many people for months, you just got unlucky. It may be fixed. > - I like installer but when I look at the code I would like to > refactor it. Of course, Installer is designed with that future refactoring in mind. Keeping everything in one class was an initial design goal for the purpose of "looking slim" and gaining acceptance. Now that Installer has gained some acceptance it may be time to tidy up the code. I still like the one class feature, but at some point the maintainability will suffer too much. > - There is no document in a nice format that explain why and how > (i'm fixing that for installer Installer has a class comment and this is available on the squeak wiki, and http://installer.pbwiki.com/Installer what more do you want? > and I was waiting because I will refactor it else I do not publish > the chapter but I did not want to > insult keith since this is not the point since I like installer). > - unknown is strnage :) > - So if you want to help me I would love to have a > - Installer code refactored > - Installer chapter > - Sake (have a look at the code) > - Sake Chapter for the book Sounds good to me! Keith

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] who is YM

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi Yann Yann you should - sign the agreement - then explain your commits because else we cannot really guess and this is important that other people can follow and may be contradict you. Stef On Sep 28, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Yann Monclair wrote: > Sorry, I'll make sure I set my fullname in my new images. > > Cheers, > > Yann > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > Yann I guess > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:12 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > because there is a package Network YM 44 > > > > Please please avoid to use initials. > > > > Stef > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] who is YM

by Yann Monclair

Sorry, I'll make sure I set my fullname in my new images. Cheers, Yann On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Yann I guess > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:12 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > because there is a package Network YM 44 > > > > Please please avoid to use initials. > > > > Stef > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >

Sept. 28, 2008

[Pharo-project] [ANN] 10082 More etoy cleaning

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi all I'm slowing going over gary's fixes and cleaning etoy. Etoy cleaning from gary (continued) Removed UndefinedObjectTest>>testNewTileMorphRepresentative Removed BooleanTest>>testNewTileMorphRepresentative Removed BookMorph>>chooseAndRevertToVersion Removed BookMorph>>revertToCheckpoint: secsSince1901 BookMorph>>installRollBackButtons BookMorph>>methodHolderVersions BookMorph>>methodHolders BookMoprh>>goToPageMorph: transitionSpec: runTransitionScripts: BookMorph>>goToPageMorph: transitionSpec: TabbedPalette>>selectTab: cleaned Removed TabbedPalette>>becomeStandPalette Removed>>currentPlayerDo: and fixed sender EncodedCharSet fixed initialize stef

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] what about squeakPage

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

:) I'm somehow sad to see all this good energy turned out that way. I'm going over the etoy removal. Marcus do yo have a chance to put back the mneu items windows (a bit cleaned up) and changes (a bit clean up too). Because recovering from changes is important. Stef On Sep 28, 2008, at 4:02 PM, Marcus Denker wrote: > > On 28.09.2008, at 15:27, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I was browsing some etoy cleans of gary and I found somewhere >> sqPage and SqueakPage. >> Apparently we can save on disc a bookmorph. >> Any ideas if this is working/useful/fun? > > I think this is partly not used anymore: now projects are stored to > disk, the SqueakPage > was from before that, I think. > > I would remove it. And the whole bookmorph, too. ;-) > > -- > Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch > http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] what about squeakPage

by Marcus Denker

On 28.09.2008, at 15:27, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > I was browsing some etoy cleans of gary and I found somewhere sqPage > and SqueakPage. > Apparently we can save on disc a bookmorph. > Any ideas if this is working/useful/fun? I think this is partly not used anymore: now projects are stored to disk, the SqueakPage was from before that, I think. I would remove it. And the whole bookmorph, too. ;-) -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker

Sept. 28, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside-dev] preliminary Seaside2.9alphauniverse

by Bill Schwab

Damien, Sounds good. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> damien.cassou(a)gmail.com 09/28/08 9:16 AM >>> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Damien, > > Now I'm confused :) If installing Seaside is easy, then the web image > is not all that necessary, agreed. With PolyMorph in Pharo, every image > gets better. No worries so far. > > You said "we want one image for Pharo." That is probably a good goal. > Will the RB go into Pharo, or will you continue to produce the developer > images? Yes, RB will be part of the official Pharo release and I won't generate specific pharo-dev images anymore. The list of packages in Pharo is maintained at: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Packages -- Damien Cassou Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu)

Sept. 28, 2008