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[Pharo-project] [update 1.2] #12297

by Torsten Bergmann

Tudor Girba >I tried to start from zero and add a new variable (e.g., color) only when I >could not distinguish something If that is true then why do you use the additional blue for activated buttons instead of using a gray one: lightSelectionColor ^ Color gray in your original theme - you can distinguish buttons already using the gray-style gradient (see attached example). However ... all of this is very specific to a particular persons view of the world. As you said you've choosen blue since it is the color of Moose... Bye T. -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 1.2] #12297

by Igor Stasenko

On 13 January 2011 10:45, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Stef wrote: >>indeed igor this is nice. >>Doru may be you could take this change for your look? > > Do you really think this orange is an improvement? > See attached comparision. Do we want to go back to colorfull > "toy" style a la Squeak? > we're talking about changing single color, not introducing new colors. And i really don't like the button highlighting in original glamorous theme.. pale blue to gray gradient makes me vomit, that's why i changed the way how to indicate 'selected' button appearance, and i think this is more coherent with Glamorous vision :) > UI always depends on personal style but we should > take care to keep it looking professional. > > We should really hire a designer! > > Bye > T. > > > > -- > NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! > Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 1.2] #12297

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On 13 Jan 2011, at 13:18, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 13 January 2011 12:29, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I tried to avoid a lengthy mail, but now I need to explain. >> >> UI design should be approached with the same rigor as system design. A community is better than an individual in producing solutions, but only when the effort is in concert under a shared vision. If the arguments are just about "I like this better", the process transforms into a design by committee which usually leads to poor results. So, let me share my "vision". >> >> The first thing that design should address is functionality (although visual appeal has a significant weight, too). In general, when you want to design something you should ask yourself why do you need to do that. >> >> The intention of the Glamour-Morphic-Theme package is to offer a look that uses a minimum amount of graphical variables while allowing you to focus on the main content - which is that thing that you work on, not that thing that you use for your work. >> >> I tried to start from zero and add a new variable (e.g., color) only when I could not distinguish something. There are still things that are superfluous (e.g., the border around all tabs, or the bulky shape of an expander), but I did not have enough time and Morphic expertise to do better. >> > > That's why i like your theme. Because it is clean and simple and not > overloaded with tons of eye candy. Yet it is elegant. > >> Now, orange vs blue is actually not just a matter of taste because your orange is not the same as my blue. There are two reasons: (1) it is stronger, and (2) it appears in more places (e.g., at the bottom of the scrollbar). This means that it will compete for my attention with more force. This might be your intention, but it is not mine because it takes away from my main focus which is the content. > > I don't wanted to analyze why.. but if you want it.. > Because orange for selection color fits much better: exactly because > it should draw an attention, because i need that - i need to see what > item(s) i selected, and orange serves better because it is higher > contrast on gray/white background comparing to pale blue. Ok, we disagree, but that is fine, too :). >> >> Suppose you would make the orange have the same visual weight as the current blue, then it would still not be the same because orange does not mean the same as blue in the cultural meaning it tends to raise. For example, blue is usually perceived as more neutral than other colors, and I want to use blue for this reason (and also because it is the color of Moose). > > you lost me here. i never associating colors with cultural meaning. > >> >> So, all in all, I do not want GLMOrangeUITheme in the Glamour-Morphic-Theme package :), but I do invite people with a UI design interest to build a shared vision that matches the one of the overall Pharo. >> > > Okay.. it can be always putted into separate package. That is what I am saying :). Thanks for understanding. Cheers, Doru >> Doru >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Some battles are better lost than fought."

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 1.2] #12297

by Tudor Girba

If you still see blue, you are not using GLMUITheme2. Probably you need to say: GLMUITheme2 defaultSettings: nil. GLMUITheme2 beCurrent. Cheers, Doru On 13 Jan 2011, at 13:17, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > For me I got blue when I applied the fix. > > > On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > >> Stef wrote: >>> indeed igor this is nice. >>> Doru may be you could take this change for your look? >> >> Do you really think this orange is an improvement? >> See attached comparision. Do we want to go back to colorfull >> "toy" style a la Squeak? >> >> UI always depends on personal style but we should >> take care to keep it looking professional. >> >> We should really hire a designer! > > do you have money? > > > S. > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They both matter."

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 1.2] #12297

by Igor Stasenko

On 13 January 2011 12:29, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I tried to avoid a lengthy mail, but now I need to explain. > > UI design should be approached with the same rigor as system design. A community is better than an individual in producing solutions, but only when the effort is in concert under a shared vision. If the arguments are just about "I like this better", the process transforms into a design by committee which usually leads to poor results. So, let me share my "vision". > > The first thing that design should address is functionality (although visual appeal has a significant weight, too). In general, when you want to design something you should ask yourself why do you need to do that. > > The intention of the Glamour-Morphic-Theme package is to offer a look that uses a minimum amount of graphical variables while allowing you to focus on the main content - which is that thing that you work on, not that thing that you use for your work. > > I tried to start from zero and add a new variable (e.g., color) only when I could not distinguish something. There are still things that are superfluous (e.g., the border around all tabs, or the bulky shape of an expander), but I did not have enough time and Morphic expertise to do better. > That's why i like your theme. Because it is clean and simple and not overloaded with tons of eye candy. Yet it is elegant. > Now, orange vs blue is actually not just a matter of taste because your orange is not the same as my blue. There are two reasons: (1) it is stronger, and (2) it appears in more places (e.g., at the bottom of the scrollbar). This means that it will compete for my attention with more force. This might be your intention, but it is not mine because it takes away from my main focus which is the content. I don't wanted to analyze why.. but if you want it.. Because orange for selection color fits much better: exactly because it should draw an attention, because i need that - i need to see what item(s) i selected, and orange serves better because it is higher contrast on gray/white background comparing to pale blue. > > Suppose you would make the orange have the same visual weight as the current blue, then it would still not be the same because orange does not mean the same as blue in the cultural meaning it tends to raise. For example, blue is usually perceived as more neutral than other colors, and I want to use blue for this reason (and also because it is the color of Moose). you lost me here. i never associating colors with cultural meaning. > > So, all in all, I do not want GLMOrangeUITheme in the Glamour-Morphic-Theme package :), but I do invite people with a UI design interest to build a shared vision that matches the one of the overall Pharo. > Okay.. it can be always putted into separate package. > Doru > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 1.2] #12297

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

For me I got blue when I applied the fix. On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Stef wrote: >> indeed igor this is nice. >> Doru may be you could take this change for your look? > > Do you really think this orange is an improvement? > See attached comparision. Do we want to go back to colorfull > "toy" style a la Squeak? > > UI always depends on personal style but we should > take care to keep it looking professional. > > We should really hire a designer! do you have money? S.

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Socket question (Was Re: Xtreams up to date)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Martin, On 12 Jan 2011, at 19:13, mkobetic(a)gmail.com wrote: > I started looking at the Socket failures that I can reproduce and I can't wrap my head around the SocketReadingWritingTest>>setUp. Based on what I know about TCP sockets it doesn't make sense to me. AFAIK to get both ends of a connected TCP connection (lacking a socketpair call) I need 3 sockets. A listening socket, a client socket (doing connect) and finally the server socket that comes out as a result of accept on the listener. So I'd expect to see something like this in the setUp: > > | data input output listener socket1 socket2 process sync | > Socket initializeNetwork. > sync := Semaphore new. > listener := Socket newTCP. > listener listenOn: 9999. > process := [ [ socket1 := listener accept ] ensure: [ listener close ]. sync signal ] fork. > socket2 := Socket newTCP. > socket2 connectTo: (NetNameResolver localHostAddress) port: 9999. > sync wait. > output := socket1 reading. > input := socket2 writing. > > Surprisingly, the above doesn't work, while many of the Socket tests seem to pass for me despite my brain telling me that it can't possibly. Can anyone shed some light on this for me ? I have been playing around a little bit with your example and this works for me (Pharo 1.1.1 + Xtreams): | data input output listener socket1 socket2 process sync | data := #uninitialized. sync := Semaphore new. listener := Socket newTCP. listener listenOn: 9999 backlogSize: 10. process := [ [ socket1 := listener waitForAcceptFor: 10. socket1 waitForDataFor: 10. output := socket1 reading. data := output rest. sync signal ] ensure: [ listener close ] ] fork. socket2 := Socket newTCP. socket2 connectToHostNamed: 'localhost' port: 9999. input := socket2 writing. input write: 'Hello!'. sync wait. data asString Of course, you still have to close some sockets, but you get the idea. HTH, Sven PS: Yes, Socket (and friends) have some pretty confusing API, you have to stick to what you know that works ;-)

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: html parser

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Doru I started to write more comments, tests.... I started to write a ConfigurationOfSoup but I need more time or help. Soup allows you to do scraping of web site by navigating inside a limited set of nodes. Stef On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:32 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Thanks. > > Doru > > On 13 Jan 2011, at 10:55, Francois Stephany wrote: > >> Soup ? >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Soup >> >>> Is there a robust html parser in Pharo? As I understand, there would be one in VW called TwoFlowers, but I do not know the license. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> seaside mailing list >> seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Don't give to get. Just give." > > > > > >

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] about text selection colors in 1.2

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On my mac I always use orange for selection else I do not see it and I'm not color blind. Stef On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:27 AM, Alain Plantec wrote: > Le 13/01/2011 11:16, Mariano Martinez Peck a Ã©crit : >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)free.fr <mailto:alain.plantec@free.fr>> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> A friend of mine told me that it was very difficult for him to see >> the difference between the >> green and the blue colors. (Color blindness...) >> So, I would suggest to change the secondary selection color >> (green) to another color. >> >> >> yes, the green is very very difficult to see. > yes, this had to be changed >> >> What do you think ? which color ? >> >> >> light yellow? grey ? I don't know :( > for testing, you can change it from the setting browser >> >> Cheers >> Alain >> >> >> > >

Jan. 13, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Dirty MC Packages in Pharo-1.1.1-OneClickCogVM

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, True. But it also got caught, perhaps because it was where it had no business being. The great thing about configurations and Hudson is that the server will build multiple artifacts. I think among them should be some bloated images for reasons just like this. The core and a leaner dev would also be in the mix. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 3:27 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Dirty MC Packages in Pharo-1.1.1-OneClickCogVM why do you need method wrapper in dev? Again this goes with my mail about pushing metacello dsitributions versus pharo-dev+++ Stef On Jan 12, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > yes, that was a hack I had to do becuase at that moment Cog didn't support well objects as methods, used by MethodWrappers, and when running its tests, it crashed. > we wanted to create a quick image so that people could start using cog and help testing it. > > this is not the case anymore in Pharo 1,2 > > so, if someone wants, the real solution is to create a new one click of 1.1.1 (without touching by hand method wrappers) and put new CogVMs. > > cheers > > mariano > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > Yesterday I downloaded Pharo-1.1.1-OneClickCogVM from > > https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/27524/Pharo-1.1.1-OneClickCogVM.zip > > and I noticed it has two dirty MC packages (MethodWrappers and Tests). > > This is probably a glitch, but not nice and confusion for beginners. > > Sven > > >

Jan. 13, 2011