March 2017 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

ExternalForm was removed 10 days ago in 60413

by Aliaksei Syrel

... and was moved to OSWindow-SDL2 as OSSDL2ExternalForm. If we require external form but don't want to depend on OSWindow what is the right way to go? Do we need to copy OSSDL2ExternalForm with project specific name? Advice with best practice would be nice :) Cheers, Alex

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Need to login to access pharo-dev ci

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

I cannot launch a build or edit a config anymore on pharo-contribution. -- Cyril Ferlicot http://www.synectique.eu 2 rue Jacques PrÃ©vert 01, 59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Need to login to access pharo-dev ci

by Yuriy Tymchuk

It is. Thank you Christophe! > On 9 Mar 2017, at 11:15, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > There was a problem after the Jenkins update. > It should be back to normal now. > >> Le 8 mars 2017 Ã 21:39, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharong@free.fr>> a Ã©crit : >> >> Yes I reported this :) >> Now try with google, because if you get a link inside you can go there funny no? >> >> HI, >> >> when I go to https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/ <https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/> I end up on a page asking me to login. Shouldnât it be possible to see the jobs without logging in? >> >> Uko >> >> >> >> -- >> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ <http://www.opera.com/mail/>

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Need to login to access pharo-dev ci

by Christophe Demarey

There was a problem after the Jenkins update. It should be back to normal now. > Le 8 mars 2017 Ã 21:39, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : > > Yes I reported this :) > Now try with google, because if you get a link inside you can go there funny no? > > HI, > > when I go to https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/ <https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/> I end up on a page asking me to login. Shouldnât it be possible to see the jobs without logging in? > > Uko > > > > -- > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ <http://www.opera.com/mail/>

March 9, 2017

Archive Page for Pharo TechTalks

by Marcus Denker

Hi, I added http://pharo.org/TechTalk <http://pharo.org/TechTalk> This is linked from http://pharo.org/community <http://pharo.org/community> The idea is to keep a log of all past tech talks with links to the archival recording (if there is one). Marcus

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] libssh2.so was: Re: Esteban's ChangeLog week of 27 February 2017

by Max Leske

NICE!! > On 8 Mar 2017, at 20:23, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Esteban, > > On Sun, Mar 05, 2017 at 11:00:02PM -0800, estebanlm(a)gmail.com wrote: >> * And now I made +libssh2.so+ compile on linux too :) >> >> I think Iceberg is fixed now for linux, can someone with linux try +vmLatest60+. > > I've done some quick ad-hoc testing of this and haven't found any > problems (just refreshing, synchronising and pulling incoming commits). > > > $ ./pharo --version > 5.0-201703081637 Wed Mar 8 17:38:04 UTC 2017 gcc 4.6.3 [Production Spur ITHB VM] > CoInterpreter * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 8 2017 > StackToRegisterMappingCogit * VMMaker.oscog-eem.2143 uuid: fe064b6b-e530-4766-837d-799ffe1e8dcd Mar 8 2017 > VM: 201703081637 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ Date: Wed Mar 8 17:37:29 2017 +0100 $ > Plugins: 201703081637 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git $ > Linux testing-docker-2c74524e-0bce-41a0-905e-309e215345ee 4.8.12-040812-generic #201612020431 SMP Fri Dec 2 09:33:31 UTC 2016 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > plugin path: /home/alistair/pharo6/pharo/pharo-vm/ [default: /home/alistair/pharo6/pharo/pharo-vm/] > > > HTH, > Alistair > >

March 9, 2017

An implementation of a cache in instance variables

by Guillaume Larcheveque

Hi, at Synectique, we are using cache for lots of projects and for now we were always using another instance variable or a dictionary to store many. It is complicated to maintain and we are always reinventing the wheel. That's why i created a first implementation (very naive but functional, documented and tested) of a cache. It is available here (with usage explication): http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~GuillaumeLarcheveque/SmallCache and you can get it by doing: Metacello new smalltalkhubUser: 'GuillaumeLarcheveque' project: 'SmallCache'; configuration: 'SmallCache'; version: #development; load Tell me if you are interested in it or if you have ideas about it. -- *Guillaume Larcheveque*

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

No it is not a Spotter bug, Spotter uses multi threading very well. So well you did not see it ;-) UI Monticello actions do indeed block the main UI thread, like almost all other tool actions. That is not necessarily bad, you want to wait for them. Monticello HTTP operations do have proper timeouts on networking. > On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:45, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Then fix Monticello and Spotter. Blocking the main thread this way is a very bad coding practice that coders should be aware of because even with a spaceship mode will still happen. Why make an extremely complex partially documented environment, even more complex. It's a Spotter bug not a Pharo design flaw. Plus an airplane mode makes zero sense, this 2017 , everything is connected to the internet nowadays. Airplane mode is used only on airplanes and even in their case it's supposed to be temporary for take off and landing. Disconnects and slow downs should be one of the first thing any code must deal with. Disabling internet connection ability is not a bug fix is monkey patching. > On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 at 10:32, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > Dimitris, > > but AFAIK when Spotter freezes itâs not using Metacello. It does an http request to pharo catalog. Isnât this a problem with http request blocking the only thread that we have? > > Uko > >> On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses Monticello which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still it's a Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the most serious problem with Monticello. >> >> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with Pharo. >> >> Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100% >> >> Phil >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners. >> >> Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No >> Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for pharo tool developers to use ? Yes >> >> I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to attract a lot more new users. >> >> My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but thats a completely different thing. >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo for keeping track of this >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> > This is not only when teaching. >> > >> > I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. >> > >> > Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. >> > >> > We need an "Airplane mode" switch. >> >> That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. >> Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, >> so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent >> mode button on the background, >> or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> > >> > Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. >> > >> > Phil >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities >> >> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and >> >> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their >> >> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now >> >> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. >> >> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the >> >> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do >> >> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) >> >> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of >> >> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to >> >> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can >> >> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing >> >> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >> >> >> >> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just >> >> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time >> >> anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ >> >> >> >> Uko >> >> >> >> > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad >> >> > french university >> >> > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros >> >> > only and we can >> >> > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >> >> > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >> >> > >> >> > <sorry I could not resist> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, it most certainly should be. >> >> >> >> >> >> If only we could then tell user to type >> >> >> >> >> >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >> >> >> >> >> >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >> >> >> >> >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… >> >> >>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you >> >> >>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Also, I see >> >> >>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… >> >> >>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> I donât know. >> >> >>>> It shouldnât :) >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and >> >> >>>> they should be in catalog) :) >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >> >> >>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the >> >> >>>> two themes policy). >> >> >>> >> >> >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >> >> >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait >> >> >>> for P7, yes. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >> >> >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >> >> >>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed >> >> >>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- Pavel >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Esteban >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> -- Pavel >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Esteban >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Phil >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >> >> >>>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Hi, >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >> >> >>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like >> >> >>>>>> in general all this new additions. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >> >> >>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea >> >> >>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people >> >> >>>>> to install other themes from catalog. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >> >> >>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened >> >> >>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to >> >> >>>>> clean up, not without problems. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> cheers, >> >> >>>>> Esteban >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed >> >> >>>>> to control the flow of issues... >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a >> >> >>>>>> good thing. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) >> >> >>>>>> frozen version? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >> >> >>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and >> >> >>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >> >> >>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >> >> >>>>>> meant: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >> >> >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >> >> >>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a >> >> >>>>>> callback problem). >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >> >> >>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train >> >> >>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >> >> >>>>>> (linux) >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >> >> >>>>>> them) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> cheers, >> >> >>>>>> Esteban >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by Dimitris Chloupis

Then fix Monticello and Spotter. Blocking the main thread this way is a very bad coding practice that coders should be aware of because even with a spaceship mode will still happen. Why make an extremely complex partially documented environment, even more complex. It's a Spotter bug not a Pharo design flaw. Plus an airplane mode makes zero sense, this 2017 , everything is connected to the internet nowadays. Airplane mode is used only on airplanes and even in their case it's supposed to be temporary for take off and landing. Disconnects and slow downs should be one of the first thing any code must deal with. Disabling internet connection ability is not a bug fix is monkey patching. On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 at 10:32, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > Dimitris, > > but AFAIK when Spotter freezes itâs not using Metacello. It does an http > request to pharo catalog. Isnât this a problem with http request blocking > the only thread that we have? > > Uko > > On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses > Monticello which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still > it's a Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the > most serious problem with Monticello. > > On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > > I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with > Pharo. > > Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100% > > Phil > > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and > does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of > the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would > make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude > the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners. > > Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No > Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for > pharo tool developers to use ? Yes > > I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big > compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to > working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to > attract a lot more new users. > > My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo > code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by > the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but > thats a completely different thing. > > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo > for keeping track of this > > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > > This is not only when teaching. > > > > I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. > > > > Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. > > > > We need an "Airplane mode" switch. > > That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. > Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, > so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent > mode button on the background, > or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. > > cheers -ben > > > > > Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. > > > > Phil > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> > wrote: > >> > >> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities > >> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) > and > >> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in > their > >> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until > now > >> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one > exactly. > >> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the > >> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed > to do > >> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) > >> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it > of > >> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to > >> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can > >> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is > nothing > >> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. > >> > >> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them > just > >> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time > >> anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ > >> > >> Uko > >> > >> > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> > > >> > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad > >> > french university > >> > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 > Euros > >> > only and we can > >> > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. > >> > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. > >> > > >> > <sorry I could not resist> > >> > > >> >> > >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) > >> >> > >> >> Yes, it most certainly should be. > >> >> > >> >> If only we could then tell user to type > >> >> > >> >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter > >> >> > >> >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) > >> >> > >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> > >> >> > >> >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >> >>> > >> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> > >> >>>> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… > >> >>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should > b/c if you > >> >>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Also, I see > >> >>>>> > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… > >> >>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I donât know. > >> >>>> It shouldnât :) > >> >>>> > >> >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it > (and > >> >>>> they should be in catalog) :) > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the > >> >>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not > aware of the > >> >>>> two themes policy). > >> >>> > >> >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) > >> >>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. > >> >>> > >> >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. > >> >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait > >> >>> for P7, yes. > >> >>> > >> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme > >> >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it > forward > >> >>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And > showed > >> >>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the > system. > >> >>> > >> >>> -- Pavel > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Esteban > >> >>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -- Pavel > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Esteban > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Phil > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano > >> >>>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > >> >>>>>> wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Hi, > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, > >> >>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, > and I like > >> >>>>>> in general all this new additions. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated > >> >>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated > DarkMetalTheme: My idea > >> >>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and > allow people > >> >>>>> to install other themes from catalog. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility > and > >> >>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already > happened > >> >>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we > needed to > >> >>>>> clean up, not without problems. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> cheers, > >> >>>>> Esteban > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I > failed > >> >>>>> to control the flow of issues... > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements > so a > >> >>>>>> good thing. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) > >> >>>>>> frozen version? > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If > I > >> >>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use > linux and > >> >>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why > >> >>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that > >> >>>>>> meant: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI > >> >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo > >> >>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that > causes a > >> >>>>>> callback problem). > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in > >> >>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the > train > >> >>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip > >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip > >> >>>>>> (linux) > >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) > >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you > need > >> >>>>>> them) > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> cheers, > >> >>>>>> Esteban > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > >

March 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-dev] Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Guys, Please stop speculating, no it is not Monticello, no it is not HTTP access, no it is not networking itself, it is DNS resolution, in a very specific situation: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18281/NetNameResolver-class-addressForNam… Note also that many, many people deploy Pharo in production contexts with heavy multi threading and networking loads with great success - that would not be possible if we did not get the basics right. Sven > On 9 Mar 2017, at 09:31, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > > Dimitris, > > but AFAIK when Spotter freezes itâs not using Metacello. It does an http request to pharo catalog. Isnât this a problem with http request blocking the only thread that we have? > > Uko > >> On 9 Mar 2017, at 08:23, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I do not need to, the problem is obvious as the sun when one uses Monticello which can easily freeze the image on a slow connection. Still it's a Monticello problem, not a Pharo problem. But then that's not the most serious problem with Monticello. >> >> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 at 17:04, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with Pharo. >> >> Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100% >> >> Phil >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners. >> >> Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No >> Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for pharo tool developers to use ? Yes >> >> I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to attract a lot more new users. >> >> My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but thats a completely different thing. >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for-Airplane-mode-in-Pharo for keeping track of this >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> > This is not only when teaching. >> > >> > I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. >> > >> > Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. >> > >> > We need an "Airplane mode" switch. >> >> That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. >> Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, >> so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent >> mode button on the background, >> or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> > >> > Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. >> > >> > Phil >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities >> >> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I tried) and >> >> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in their >> >> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. Until now >> >> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one exactly. >> >> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the >> >> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed to do >> >> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) >> >> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it of >> >> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be to >> >> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can >> >> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is nothing >> >> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. >> >> >> >> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them just >> >> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time >> >> anyway convincing the other side that we are rightâ¦ >> >> >> >> Uko >> >> >> >> > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that bad >> >> > french university >> >> > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 Euros >> >> > only and we can >> >> > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. >> >> > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. >> >> > >> >> > <sorry I could not resist> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes, it most certainly should be. >> >> >> >> >> >> If only we could then tell user to type >> >> >> >> >> >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter >> >> >> >> >> >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) >> >> >> >> >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifac… >> >> >>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you >> >> >>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Also, I see >> >> >>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-Sublimis… >> >> >>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> I donât know. >> >> >>>> It shouldnât :) >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and >> >> >>>> they should be in catalog) :) >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the >> >> >>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the >> >> >>>> two themes policy). >> >> >>> >> >> >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. >> >> >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait >> >> >>> for P7, yes. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme >> >> >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward >> >> >>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed >> >> >>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- Pavel >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Esteban >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> -- Pavel >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Esteban >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Phil >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano >> >> >>>>> <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Hi, >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, >> >> >>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like >> >> >>>>>> in general all this new additions. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated >> >> >>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didnât integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea >> >> >>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people >> >> >>>>> to install other themes from catalog. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and >> >> >>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened >> >> >>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to >> >> >>>>> clean up, not without problems. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> cheers, >> >> >>>>> Esteban >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed >> >> >>>>> to control the flow of issues... >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a >> >> >>>>>> good thing. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) >> >> >>>>>> frozen version? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soonâ¦ *if* we can fix all things missing. If I >> >> >>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and >> >> >>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why >> >> >>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that >> >> >>>>>> meant: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI >> >> >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo >> >> >>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a >> >> >>>>>> callback problem). >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in >> >> >>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (Iâm at the train >> >> >>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >> >> >>>>>> (linux) >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need >> >> >>>>>> them) >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> cheers, >> >> >>>>>> Esteban >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >

March 9, 2017