March 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] A little rant about DVCS

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for the article Sven. > > As I understand it, git became popular not because it was a DCVS, but > because it made it easy to branch, try something, and merge back (or > continue in that branch). It is, branching was more important than > distribution. > > However it is good to hear somebody saying things in this direction, > otherwise, groupshift happens (as it did). > > This paragraph is independent of whatever he is talking about and I > like to remark it: > "Hereâs a tip: if you say somethingâs hard, and everyone starts > screaming at youâsometimes literallyâthat itâs easy, then itâs really > hard. The people yelling at you are trying desperately to pretend like > it was easy so they donât feel like an idiot for how long it took them > to figure things out. This in turn makes you feel like an idiot for > taking so long to grasp the âeasyâ concept, so you happily pay it > forward, and we come to one of the two great Emperor Has No Clothes > moments in computing." Nobody screamed at me but some things in Smalltalk I find really hard. Powerful, certainely. But hard. Until I have been wrapping my mind around it. Then it feels easy. Because I now understands. That's no reason to scream on people. Since there is still a lot to grasp :-) Phil > > Regards! > > > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2015-03-04 6:30 GMT-03:00 Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >> 2015-03-04 10:16 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: >>> >>> >>> Le 4 mars 2015 09:51, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> a >>> Ã©crit : >>> >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > 2015-03-04 9:22 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >>> >> >>> >> Here is a little rant about DVCS that I came across: >>> >> >>> >> Unorthodocs: Abandon your DVCS and Return to Sanity >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> http://bitquabit.com/post/unorthodocs-abandon-your-dvcs-and-return-to-sanit… >>> >> >>> >> What struck my attention was that this guys (1) knows what he is >>> >> talking about and (2) recognises both Smalltalk and Monticello explicitly as >>> >> ancestors ! >>> > >>> > >>> > Interestingly, one of the things he is discussing is the versionning of >>> > external data (blobs). >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> This also shows that not all is fun and jolly in git(hub) land. >>> > >>> > >>> > Of course. We do with what we have (and what is popular) :) >>> >>> Still, the full local github history, the ability to push to several repos >>> and the surrounding ecosystem makes it very fine. No one is forced to branch >>> on every single feature... I have been coming back from that for example. >> >> I agree. What I'd add to the git benefits is a fairly good merge algorithm >> as well. >> >>> >>> master and develop with a couple tags do the trick. >> >> One of the good things is the flexibility it offers. >> >> Thierry >>> >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> > >>> > Thierry >> >> >

March 4, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] A little rant about DVCS

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Thanks for the article Sven. As I understand it, git became popular not because it was a DCVS, but because it made it easy to branch, try something, and merge back (or continue in that branch). It is, branching was more important than distribution. However it is good to hear somebody saying things in this direction, otherwise, groupshift happens (as it did). This paragraph is independent of whatever he is talking about and I like to remark it: "Hereâs a tip: if you say somethingâs hard, and everyone starts screaming at youâsometimes literallyâthat itâs easy, then itâs really hard. The people yelling at you are trying desperately to pretend like it was easy so they donât feel like an idiot for how long it took them to figure things out. This in turn makes you feel like an idiot for taking so long to grasp the âeasyâ concept, so you happily pay it forward, and we come to one of the two great Emperor Has No Clothes moments in computing." Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-03-04 6:30 GMT-03:00 Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com>: > > > 2015-03-04 10:16 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: >> >> >> Le 4 mars 2015 09:51, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> a >> Ã©crit : >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > 2015-03-04 9:22 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> >> >> >> Here is a little rant about DVCS that I came across: >> >> >> >> Unorthodocs: Abandon your DVCS and Return to Sanity >> >> >> >> >> >> http://bitquabit.com/post/unorthodocs-abandon-your-dvcs-and-return-to-sanit… >> >> >> >> What struck my attention was that this guys (1) knows what he is >> >> talking about and (2) recognises both Smalltalk and Monticello explicitly as >> >> ancestors ! >> > >> > >> > Interestingly, one of the things he is discussing is the versionning of >> > external data (blobs). >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> This also shows that not all is fun and jolly in git(hub) land. >> > >> > >> > Of course. We do with what we have (and what is popular) :) >> >> Still, the full local github history, the ability to push to several repos >> and the surrounding ecosystem makes it very fine. No one is forced to branch >> on every single feature... I have been coming back from that for example. > > I agree. What I'd add to the git benefits is a fairly good merge algorithm > as well. > >> >> master and develop with a couple tags do the trick. > > One of the good things is the flexibility it offers. > > Thierry >> >> >> Phil >> >> > >> > Thierry > >

March 4, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Suggestions with Smart hovering

by Thierry Goubier

Not difficult to do with Morphic as it is today. But takes a lot of time to finalize (timing, animation, behavior) to make it usable. Thierry Le 04/03/2015 12:26, Torsten Bergmann a Ã©crit : > Would like to see something like this in future Pharo > for suggestions as in this animated gif: > > http://forum.world.st/file/n4809356/smart-hover-1.gif > > > >

March 4, 2015

Suggestions with Smart hovering

by Torsten Bergmann

Would like to see something like this in future Pharo for suggestions as in this animated gif: http://forum.world.st/file/n4809356/smart-hover-1.gif

March 4, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] Swift: Madness of Generic Integer

by Nicolas Cellier

2015-03-04 12:07 GMT+01:00 Nicolas Cellier < nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > > > 2015-03-04 10:18 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > >> >> Le 4 mars 2015 10:03, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)stfx.eu> a Ã©crit : >> >> > >> > Here is an article complaining about Integer types in Swift. >> > >> > Swift: Madness of Generic Integer >> > >> > >> http://blog.krzyzanowskim.com/2015/03/01/swift_madness_of_generic_integer/ >> > >> > Really, those statically typed languages are soo much better. >> > > The article is interesting. > To translate it in Smalltalk terms, it's as if we would like to decline > the SmallInteger into several subtypes... > Of course we would not want to do that, because complexification would > much probably result in a slower VM! > > That said, I once considered the possibility of having a PositiveSmallInteger and a NegativeSmallInteger just for the sake of unifying the sign/magnitude handling. But, let's imagine that it can pay.. > We can also transpose this to collections - ByteArray ShortIntegerArray > WordArray with signed/unsigned variants - without resorting to VM > considerations... > Are we sure that Smalltalk implementation (image side) would be simpler > than Swift with all the double dispatching machinery involved? > > So, if the goal of having such space/time optimization is founded (which > we can't know without context), I would say Swift does not do it that bad... > > Some languages are much worse, like say: > > > https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/c/INT32-C.+Ensure+that… > > ;) > >> Thx for the share. Enlightment doesn't come easy. >> >> Remember that a lot of code in this world is still COBOL... >> >> Phil >> >> > >> > Sven >> > >> > >

March 4, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] Swift: Madness of Generic Integer

by Nicolas Cellier

2015-03-04 10:18 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > > Le 4 mars 2015 10:03, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)stfx.eu> a Ã©crit : > > > > > Here is an article complaining about Integer types in Swift. > > > > Swift: Madness of Generic Integer > > > > > http://blog.krzyzanowskim.com/2015/03/01/swift_madness_of_generic_integer/ > > > > Really, those statically typed languages are soo much better. > The article is interesting. To translate it in Smalltalk terms, it's as if we would like to decline the SmallInteger into several subtypes... Of course we would not want to do that, because complexification would much probably result in a slower VM! But, let's imagine that it can pay.. We can also transpose this to collections - ByteArray ShortIntegerArray WordArray with signed/unsigned variants - without resorting to VM considerations... Are we sure that Smalltalk implementation (image side) would be simpler than Swift with all the double dispatching machinery involved? So, if the goal of having such space/time optimization is founded (which we can't know without context), I would say Swift does not do it that bad... Some languages are much worse, like say: https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/c/INT32-C.+Ensure+that… ;) > Thx for the share. Enlightment doesn't come easy. > > Remember that a lot of code in this world is still COBOL... > > Phil > > > > > Sven > > >

March 4, 2015

[OT] Toolkit for AST-based structured text editors

by Thierry Goubier

The Citrus[1] language and the Barista[2] framework. [1] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~NatProg/citrus.html [2] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~NatProg/barista.html Thierry

March 4, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo4] Image size now 23.2MB

by Andrei Chis

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > 2015-03-03 15:14 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > >> >> On 03 Mar 2015, at 08:06, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> >> On 02 Mar 2015, at 18:29, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> >> >> Other things TODO to make it even smaller: >> >> - Hunt down that one GTPlayground instance that is hanging around >> >> >> This is *strange*. I was able to get it down to 1 >> >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> GTPlayground allInstances size. >> >> and then I saved that and uploaded it the build server. Now all the >> Undeclareds are gone. >> Yet, when I download the last build, open *one* GTPlayground: >> >> GTPlayground allInstances size ==> 2. >> There is something happening that I donât understand. >> >> >> I think we found it: >> >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15044/GTSpotterGlobalShortcut-class-needs… >> >> Marcus >> > > > Maybe there is another cause: > > "A fresh image that only uses old Workspace" > > Smalltalk garbageCollect. > GTPlayground allInstances size. -> 1 > > > (RubFindReplaceService classVarNamed:#Singleton) whenDialogDeleted. > RubFindReplaceService classVarNamed:#Singleton put:nil > > Smalltalk garbageCollect. > GTPlayground allInstances size. -> 0 > Added a #cleanUp method to RubFindReplaceService Cheers, Andrei > > RubFindReplaceService may nead a cleanUp, too. > The whenDialogDeleted is called on a MorphDeleted announcement, but > somehow this does not work, the method is never called, maybe the > MorphDeleted is never > announced? > > > >

March 4, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] A little rant about DVCS

by Thierry Goubier

2015-03-04 10:16 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > > Le 4 mars 2015 09:51, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> a > Ã©crit : > > > > > > > > > 2015-03-04 9:22 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > >> > >> Here is a little rant about DVCS that I came across: > >> > >> Unorthodocs: Abandon your DVCS and Return to Sanity > >> > >> > http://bitquabit.com/post/unorthodocs-abandon-your-dvcs-and-return-to-sanit… > >> > >> What struck my attention was that this guys (1) knows what he is > talking about and (2) recognises both Smalltalk and Monticello explicitly > as ancestors ! > > > > > > Interestingly, one of the things he is discussing is the versionning of > external data (blobs). > > > >> > >> > >> This also shows that not all is fun and jolly in git(hub) land. > > > > > > Of course. We do with what we have (and what is popular) :) > > Still, the full local github history, the ability to push to several repos > and the surrounding ecosystem makes it very fine. No one is forced to > branch on every single feature... I have been coming back from that for > example. > I agree. What I'd add to the git benefits is a fairly good merge algorithm as well. > master and develop with a couple tags do the trick. > One of the good things is the flexibility it offers. Thierry > > Phil > > > > > Thierry >

March 4, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] Swift: Madness of Generic Integer

by phil＠highoctane.be

Le 4 mars 2015 10:03, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)stfx.eu> a Ã©crit : > > Here is an article complaining about Integer types in Swift. > > Swift: Madness of Generic Integer > > http://blog.krzyzanowskim.com/2015/03/01/swift_madness_of_generic_integer/ > > Really, those statically typed languages are soo much better. Thx for the share. Enlightment doesn't come easy. Remember that a lot of code in this world is still COBOL... Phil > > Sven >

March 4, 2015