December 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by Nicolai Hess

2015-12-28 3:15 GMT+01:00 Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com>: > Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was > enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he > really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his > change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical. > > Hi Robert, usually, I don't comment on this kind of discussion. It wastes resources we don't have. I just want to let other peoples (like ben, phil, johan,...) know, that I share their opinion. I don't like if people argue with "I am censored", because someone critisized you. I don't like if people see every critic as a negative personel attack. you post on this list, and people suggest to stay ontopic resp. explain how this things are related to pharo. That's all. nicolai > I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the > substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as > long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged. > > Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion. > > robert > > On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, > but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, > (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted > responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail > often hide) > > cheers -ben > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers<robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > *My apologies...I'll try for > #random. :)* > > nameste, > robert > > > -- > There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): > 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), > 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), > 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), > 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and > 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as > being death. > (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha) > > > On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote: > > I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was > jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy > of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is > there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have > no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:). > > cheers, > robert > > --- > > And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. > Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer > of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am > not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the > very source of creation. > > > > > On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote: > > On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > > On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote: > > Hello Robert, > > Good day SaÅ¡a, > > Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge > sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and > a good thing too. > > Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not > understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating. > > I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and > effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge > supplants older limited knowledge. > > > As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: > it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;) > > :-) > > Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is > split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this > speculation when you find #new! :-) > > Hare hare and Merry Christmas, > > Haribol and Happy New Year! > > Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat! > > --- > But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My > transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they > have. > > > -- > As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, > whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the > transcendent self. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Robert > . .. ... ^,^ > >

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Back to Europe

by Hilaire

Le 27/12/2015 14:56, Nicolai Hess a Ã©crit : > > You are incredible Indeed, you guys are pure energy tanks. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu http://google.com/+DrgeoEu

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by phil＠highoctane.be

This is getting annoying as in using obscure references that personally I do not care about. The main problem being that there is interesting code mixed with "noise" for pharo-dev. Please make posts on Medium about it and post a link if needed (I may even actually read them), but not the Transcript nextPutAll: consciousness stream upToEnd. Phil On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was > enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he > really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his > change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical. > > I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the > substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as > long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged. > > Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion. > > robert > > On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, > but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, > (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted > responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail > often hide) > > cheers -ben > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers<robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > *My apologies...I'll try for > #random. :)* > > nameste, > robert > > > -- > There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): > 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), > 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), > 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), > 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and > 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as > being death. > (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha) > > > On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote: > > I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was > jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy > of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is > there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have > no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:). > > cheers, > robert > > --- > > And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. > Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer > of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am > not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the > very source of creation. > > > > > On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote: > > On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > > On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote: > > Hello Robert, > > Good day SaÅ¡a, > > Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge > sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and > a good thing too. > > Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not > understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating. > > I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and > effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge > supplants older limited knowledge. > > > As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: > it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;) > > :-) > > Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is > split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this > speculation when you find #new! :-) > > > Hare hare and Merry Christmas, > > Haribol and Happy New Year! > > Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat! > > --- > But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My > transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they > have. > > > -- > As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, > whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the > transcendent self. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Robert > . .. ... ^,^ > >

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by Robert Withers

Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical. I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged. Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion. robert On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, > but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, > (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted > responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail > often hide) > > cheers -ben > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers > <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> *My apologies...I'll try for #random. :)* >> >> nameste, >> robert >> >> >> -- >> There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): >> 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), >> 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), >> 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), >> 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and >> 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as >> being death. >> (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha) >> >> >> On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote: >> >> I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was >> jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy >> of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is >> there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have >> no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:). >> >> cheers, >> robert >> >> --- >> >> And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. >> Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer >> of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am >> not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the >> very source of creation. >> >> >> >> >> On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote: >> >> On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >> >> On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote: >> >> Hello Robert, >> >> Good day SaÅ¡a, >> >> Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge >> sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and >> a good thing too. >> >> Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not >> understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating. >> >> I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and >> effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge >> supplants older limited knowledge. >> >> >> As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: >> it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;) >> >> :-) >> >> Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is >> split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this >> speculation when you find #new! :-) >> >> Hare hare and Merry Christmas, >> >> Haribol and Happy New Year! >> >> Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat! >> >> --- >> But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My >> transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they >> have. >> >> >> -- >> As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, >> whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the >> transcendent self. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Meta-models (Re: [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Robert Withers

Yes, here we are, all three models. Just like we have a bunch of languages from around the world, my wish is to see many meta-models for my higher stack layers, as many would not understand one or the other and can, in fact, create their own model through which they control their interactions with the One distriubuted cloud image-based Metaverse. Let us aim high. So to Pharo: How can I do this multi-model interactions on a real system, through multi-meme interactive fiction? Do you know what I mean, then? robert Military lens Cell lens Vedic lens On 12/27/2015 08:55 PM, Robert Withers wrote: > > > On 12/27/2015 01:50 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: >> On Dec 27, 2015, at 15:18, Robert Withers >> <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Alright, I ask you all. Which meta-model is acceptable for >>> practical work in my stack? I need a meta-model to describe it, or >>> rahter anyone should be able to skin the meta-model they want and >>> that makes most sense. These consciousness meta-models, or >>> meta-memes, from religious tradition are well-defined models. >> >> I have no opinion on this, this is a design question for your work, >> and not straightforwardly related to Pharo itself. In my opinion and >> apparently in the opinion of others as well, this is not a topic for >> this mailing list. Sending multiple mails to the list about it can be >> considered bad netiquette. > > I find it very unfortunate you sidestepped my question with a claim of > not only no opinion, but that it has no place on this list. > Intellectual dishonesty is a rather poor maneuver for one who claims > to be of an enlightened tribe. I object on the basis of principle. > > So, I would extend you another opportunity, which are valid > meta-models? Let's talk about meta-memes and meta-models within > Pharo's creative space. Shall it be the military analogy, then? How > unfortunate, I'd wish an alternative. > > Regards, > -- > Robert > . .. ... ^,^ -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Meta-models (Re: [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Robert Withers

On 12/27/2015 01:50 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: > On Dec 27, 2015, at 15:18, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com > <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Alright, I ask you all. Which meta-model is acceptable for practical >> work in my stack? I need a meta-model to describe it, or rahter >> anyone should be able to skin the meta-model they want and that makes >> most sense. These consciousness meta-models, or meta-memes, from >> religious tradition are well-defined models. > > I have no opinion on this, this is a design question for your work, > and not straightforwardly related to Pharo itself. In my opinion and > apparently in the opinion of others as well, this is not a topic for > this mailing list. Sending multiple mails to the list about it can be > considered bad netiquette. I find it very unfortunate you sidestepped my question with a claim of not only no opinion, but that it has no place on this list. Intellectual dishonesty is a rather poor maneuver for one who claims to be of an enlightened tribe. I object on the basis of principle. So, I would extend you another opportunity, which are valid meta-models? Let's talk about meta-memes and meta-models within Pharo's creative space. Shall it be the military analogy, then? How unfortunate, I'd wish an alternative. Regards, -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Having Book section using Pillar?

by Alexandre Bergel

Thanks Cyril, This is exactly what I was looking for: {{{latex: \part{Roassal} }}} Cheers, Alexandre > On Dec 27, 2015, at 5:59 PM, Ferlicot D. Cyril <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Le 27/12/2015 21:50, Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : >> Hi! >> >> Is there a way to have different part of a book? A part containing several chapters. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> > > Hi, > > there is not a Pillar syntax for that but you have at least two solutions: > > - Generate your chapter with pillar and include them with LaTeX (see > EnterprisePharo for example: > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/EnterprisePharo/blob/master/Ente…) > > - Use Pillar's raws: > > {{{latex: \part{My Part} }}} > > I wish this can help you. > > -- > Cyril Ferlicot > > http://www.synectique.eu > > 165 Avenue Bretagne > Lille 59000 France > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 27, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Having Book section using Pillar?

by Ferlicot D. Cyril

Le 27/12/2015 21:50, Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : > Hi! > > Is there a way to have different part of a book? A part containing several chapters. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > Hi, there is not a Pillar syntax for that but you have at least two solutions: - Generate your chapter with pillar and include them with LaTeX (see EnterprisePharo for example: https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/EnterprisePharo/blob/master/Ente…) - Use Pillar's raws: {{{latex: \part{My Part} }}} I wish this can help you. -- Cyril Ferlicot http://www.synectique.eu 165 Avenue Bretagne Lille 59000 France

Dec. 27, 2015

Having Book section using Pillar?

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi! Is there a way to have different part of a book? A part containing several chapters. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 27, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by Robert Withers

Hello Johan, On 12/27/2015 01:50 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: > >> On Dec 27, 2015, at 15:18, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Wait a second here. Let's be clear. In your first paragraph you say >> no need to feel that I am censored or ostracized, then the second >> paragraph you censor me. > > You did not completely take into account my sentence. The second part > says: "for your spiritual and/or religious point of viewâ. I apologize, I do not understand your point. > > >> Alright, I ask you all. Which meta-model is acceptable for practical >> work in my stack? I need a meta-model to describe it, or rahter >> anyone should be able to skin the meta-model they want and that makes >> most sense. These consciousness meta-models, or meta-memes, from >> religious tradition are well-defined models. > > I have no opinion on this, this is a design question for your work, > and not straightforwardly related to Pharo itself. In my opinion and > apparently in the opinion of others as well, this is not a topic for > this mailing list. Sending multiple mails to the list about it can be > considered bad netiquette. It is silly for me to ask for contravailing opinion but your position is medieval and anti-intellectual. You are imposing a false restriction and constraint on the potential of a dynamic meta system, which Pharo certainly is. Are you aiming for mimicry to bring Pharo to popularity and success or are you aiming for innovation. Why one over the other. My work lies within the circle of innovation, whether it sits right with or not. I will take Offray's suggestion to not torment the list quite so voluminously. I simply will not yield my various models. As well, I'll keep to to the devel list, so as not to scare any potential Pharovians. If you are lost by my analogies, please ask me questions. There is an untapped wealth here. They are models of consciousness, even if you are not conscious of it. My practical technical questions relate to representation of this in Pharo, using interactive fiction and immersive natural language processing. I do not know very much about this so I will need to ask questions as I get deeper into this aspect of my 9-layer architecture (9-layer burrito). I would think this would greatly interest a computer science department... -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 27, 2015