January 2015 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] GT tool request

by stepharo

Le 12/1/15 13:33, Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : > I share your experience. It often happen that I would like to copy and paste the result of a cmd-p action. > Maybe if I do a cmd-c action on blue rectangle it can copy the printstring of it? The problem is that after you have to deselect the expression because else you lose it and this is really annoying. I think that enter should deselect the current expression and paster the result on the following line. Stef > > Alexandre > > >> Le 11 janv. 2015 Ã 17:11, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : >> >> Hi >> >> I found the blue rectangle morph painful because it blocks me when I want to freely edit expression and result. >> Would it be possible that when I type enter the blue rectangle text is paste in the pane below its expression. >> Right now I have to copy and paste explictly and it not working. I hate so much this broken interaction.... >> >> Example >> >> (20@200) printString get blue rectangle >> press copy parentheses got hilighlited no idea why >> then I press enter to go to the next line (my selection vanished of course because the magic things selected everything automatically) >> and I can paste the result and start to edit it. >> >> I sincerly hope that GT guys will understand and modify it because right now this is a show stopper to me. >> It breaks so badly interaction with texts. >> >> Stef >> >> >

Jan. 13, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/40442 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Jan. 13, 2015

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 6ec42e: 40442

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/4.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 6ec42e62fdeeefe5f424161d4573cb0c8b8037f8 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/6ec42e62fdeeefe5f424161d… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2015-01-13 (Tue, 13 Jan 2015) Changed paths: M Kernel.package/Metaclass.class/instance/fileIn%2FOut/definition.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script442.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40442.st M ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M ShoutTests.package/SHParserST80Test.class/instance/tests/testNumbers.st A ShoutTests.package/SHParserST80Test.class/instance/utilities/%3E-------%3E.st Log Message: ----------- 40442 14590 SHParserST80Test>>#testNumbers https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14590 14725 When using class side slot, show class definition for slots https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14725 http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40442.zip

Jan. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo4] Slots can now be saved with MC

by Marcus Denker

> On 12 Jan 2015, at 16:20, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> Limitations >> -> no support for class variables yet >> -> class instance variables not yet done, either > > Class Instance Slots are now done: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14720 > > - With this slice > - class definition template for metaclass shows slots when enables > - Metacello loading implemented for class slots > > next: Class Variables: add Monticello loading support for class variable definitions. > This is now done: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14726/Add-support-for-loading-special-Cla… <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14726/Add-support-for-loading-special-Cla…> Marcus

Jan. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Cormas now open-source

by Alexandre Bergel

Yes! We will be happy to help Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Jan 13, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > And we would like to use Roassal to do the visualisation ;-) > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> I think I used it once, to try. >> This is an excellent news. >> >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> On Jan 9, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> the CORMAS modelling platform is now open-source and available under >> the MIT licence. >> CORMAS (Common-pool Resources and Multiagent Systems; Bousquet et al., >> 1998) has been >> developed to provide a multi-agent framework that can be used to >> simulate the interactions >> between a group of agents and a shared environment holding natural >> resources. >> >> The code is written in VisualWorks 7.6 and a port to the Pharo/MOOSE >> has started recently. >> >> If you are interested, you can join the mailing-list here: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cormas-dev >> >> All issues are here: https://github.com/cormas/cormas/issues >> >> An early dev version on Pharo can be loaded in the last MOOSE 5.0 image: >> >> Gofer new >> url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/SergeStinckwich/CORMAS/main'; >> package: 'ConfigurationOfCormas'; >> load. >> >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfCormas) loadDevelopment >> >> Regards, >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> >> > > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

Jan. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Cormas now open-source

by Serge Stinckwich

And we would like to use Roassal to do the visualisation ;-) On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > I think I used it once, to try. > This is an excellent news. > > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > On Jan 9, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Dear all, > > the CORMAS modelling platform is now open-source and available under > the MIT licence. > CORMAS (Common-pool Resources and Multiagent Systems; Bousquet et al., > 1998) has been > developed to provide a multi-agent framework that can be used to > simulate the interactions > between a group of agents and a shared environment holding natural > resources. > > The code is written in VisualWorks 7.6 and a port to the Pharo/MOOSE > has started recently. > > If you are interested, you can join the mailing-list here: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cormas-dev > > All issues are here: https://github.com/cormas/cormas/issues > > An early dev version on Pharo can be loaded in the last MOOSE 5.0 image: > > Gofer new > url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/SergeStinckwich/CORMAS/main'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfCormas'; > load. > > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfCormas) loadDevelopment > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Jan. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] What Logging framework for Pharo

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 13.01.2015 um 14:08 schrieb phil(a)highoctane.be: > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Atlas <erde(a)chello.at> wrote: > >> It's all a matter of viewpoint, that's why we should include as many of >> them >> possible :) >> >> But, even though the answer was not directed as me, I'd like to step in: >> >> > Log4J does a good job of what I would consider the laymen spirit of >> > logging production > he default event logging done captures the specific >> > of class, line number, timestamp, method et als. >> >> A dog's breakfast actually. >> >> Strings lack self-description and this causes many unnecessary >> architectural >> problems. >> >> As Doru already pointed out, you have to write parsers and analysers to >> interpret the output. And since might be many different formats for the >> same >> thing (dialects), you lose uniformity and have to handle all corner cases. >> Worse yet, there is the implicit assumption that the software (or human) >> inspecting the log has to understand all formats, i.e. has to have >> knowledge >> about: >> What the names of the classes and methods mean, which subsystems (MQ, >> databases) are in use and how their communication protocols look like etc. >> And that does not factor in possible format changes or versions of >> subsystems. >> >> It's hard to write generic browsers and analysers (the automated tooling >> Doru pointed out) that way. >> Also, there is the problem of reusing these parsers and analyers and code >> duplication, maintenance issues etc. >> >> With that said, ultimately, it depends on the use cases.* For a fixed set >> * >> of inspection use cases, this logging strategy might work fine. But it >> certainly lacks the real flexibility to make a system more accessible and >> to >> adopt the generated information to the person and it's needs and >> viewpoints. >> You cannot address that easily with Log4j (or any logging facility for >> that >> matter). As for Log4j and its 7 levels of logging: Why not 8, 9 or a 100? >> What does INFO really mean? To whom? It all depends on the context. >> >> There are many, many usage scenarios and even more might pop up with more >> accessible and comprehensible logging schemes. >> >> We need to go far beyond logging. >> >> > Sure but with tools like http://www.fluentd.org/, and > http://riemann.io/concepts.html, we are really blown out of the water > with those logs we have now. > > > What do you mean? What is (besides performance) the special thing to do? > Lengthy documentation for one. Mindshare for two. Out of the box integration with Hadoop and Mongodb for third. Proven cases as fifth. > I had to love looking at the riemann site because the stream filter > example remembers me about something I have done myself > > root@2d-misc:/opt/application/mc-partner# cat launch.d/95_enable-callback > ZnEasy > post: 'http://192.168.10.47:3000/callbacks' > data: (ZnEntity > with: (NeoJSONWriter toString: { > 'name' -> 'multicity partner'. > 'url' -> 'http://192.168.10.43:7850/pushtrigger'. > 'filter' -> [ :event | > ((event origin = 'deviceManagement') & (#( 'MessageSent' > 'MessageNotSent') includes: event type)) and: [ > ((event message at: 'application') at: 'name') = > 'multicity' ] ] sourceNode formattedCode } asDictionary)) > > It registers a pharo instance at my own event server for some events. The > block is transferred as code and stored in the database on the event > server. Whenever the block matches the callback url is triggered with the > event data as json. > > > > Text is here to stay once we get into the sysadmin realm. People do not > want to deal with code internals when they are doing the piping. > Just my experience dealing with such admins working with a lot of > different systems. We cannot ask them to become polyglot coders as their > hands are full already. > > The shell is line based and the odds are quite low this will change. That > doesn't mean all of the information needs to be line based just the > results. I'm using jq [1] since a while now and there you work on > hierarchical json data to produce line based results. So if you would query > from a shell to the logging engine you could still get line based results. > One example is how I delete older backups in elasticsearch > > #!/bin/sh > > BACKUP_URL="http://localhost:9200/_snapshot/backup" > SNAPSHOTS=`curl -s "$BACKUP_URL/_all" | jq ".snapshots[].snapshot" | sed > -e 's/"//g' | sort -u | head -n-14` > > for snapshot in $SNAPSHOTS; do > curl -XDELETE "$BACKUP_URL/$snapshot" > /dev/null 2>&1 > done > Cool stuff, thanks for sharing. Now, what I say is that when I have sysadmins deploying my Pharo based app, it is already hard enough to get it through without adding more layers of alien stuff for them. For my own uses, who cares, for those cases, I have a situation if I do not go that way. > > Norbert > > [1] http://stedolan.github.io/jq/ > > -- > --- > Philippe Back > Visible Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 > Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu > Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback > Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium > > Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ > Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - > http://spamcast.libsyn.com > Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value > Added Reseller > > > -- --- Philippe Back Visible Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller

Jan. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] What Logging framework for Pharo

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 13.01.2015 um 14:08 schrieb phil(a)highoctane.be: > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Atlas <erde(a)chello.at <mailto:erde@chello.at>> wrote: > It's all a matter of viewpoint, that's why we should include as many of them > possible :) > > But, even though the answer was not directed as me, I'd like to step in: > > > Log4J does a good job of what I would consider the laymen spirit of > > logging production > he default event logging done captures the specific > > of class, line number, timestamp, method et als. > > A dog's breakfast actually. > > Strings lack self-description and this causes many unnecessary architectural > problems. > > As Doru already pointed out, you have to write parsers and analysers to > interpret the output. And since might be many different formats for the same > thing (dialects), you lose uniformity and have to handle all corner cases. > Worse yet, there is the implicit assumption that the software (or human) > inspecting the log has to understand all formats, i.e. has to have knowledge > about: > What the names of the classes and methods mean, which subsystems (MQ, > databases) are in use and how their communication protocols look like etc. > And that does not factor in possible format changes or versions of > subsystems. > > It's hard to write generic browsers and analysers (the automated tooling > Doru pointed out) that way. > Also, there is the problem of reusing these parsers and analyers and code > duplication, maintenance issues etc. > > With that said, ultimately, it depends on the use cases.* For a fixed set * > of inspection use cases, this logging strategy might work fine. But it > certainly lacks the real flexibility to make a system more accessible and to > adopt the generated information to the person and it's needs and viewpoints. > You cannot address that easily with Log4j (or any logging facility for that > matter). As for Log4j and its 7 levels of logging: Why not 8, 9 or a 100? > What does INFO really mean? To whom? It all depends on the context. > > There are many, many usage scenarios and even more might pop up with more > accessible and comprehensible logging schemes. > > We need to go far beyond logging. > > > Sure but with tools like http://www.fluentd.org/ <http://www.fluentd.org/>, and http://riemann.io/concepts.html <http://riemann.io/concepts.html>, we are really blown out of the water with those logs we have now. What do you mean? What is (besides performance) the special thing to do? I had to love looking at the riemann site because the stream filter example remembers me about something I have done myself root@2d-misc:/opt/application/mc-partner# cat launch.d/95_enable-callback ZnEasy post: 'http://192.168.10.47:3000/callbacks' data: (ZnEntity with: (NeoJSONWriter toString: { 'name' -> 'multicity partner'. 'url' -> 'http://192.168.10.43:7850/pushtrigger'. 'filter' -> [ :event | ((event origin = 'deviceManagement') & (#( 'MessageSent' 'MessageNotSent') includes: event type)) and: [ ((event message at: 'application') at: 'name') = 'multicity' ] ] sourceNode formattedCode } asDictionary)) It registers a pharo instance at my own event server for some events. The block is transferred as code and stored in the database on the event server. Whenever the block matches the callback url is triggered with the event data as json. > > Text is here to stay once we get into the sysadmin realm. People do not want to deal with code internals when they are doing the piping. > Just my experience dealing with such admins working with a lot of different systems. We cannot ask them to become polyglot coders as their hands are full already. > The shell is line based and the odds are quite low this will change. That doesn't mean all of the information needs to be line based just the results. I'm using jq [1] since a while now and there you work on hierarchical json data to produce line based results. So if you would query from a shell to the logging engine you could still get line based results. One example is how I delete older backups in elasticsearch #!/bin/sh BACKUP_URL="http://localhost:9200/_snapshot/backup" SNAPSHOTS=`curl -s "$BACKUP_URL/_all" | jq ".snapshots[].snapshot" | sed -e 's/"//g' | sort -u | head -n-14` for snapshot in $SNAPSHOTS; do curl -XDELETE "$BACKUP_URL/$snapshot" > /dev/null 2>&1 done Norbert [1] http://stedolan.github.io/jq/ <http://stedolan.github.io/jq/> > -- > --- > Philippe Back > Visible Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 > Mail:phil@highoctane.be <mailto:Mail%3Aphil@highoctane.be> | Web: http://philippeback.eu <http://philippeback.eu/> > Blog: http://philippeback.be <http://philippeback.be/> | Twitter: @philippeback > Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos <http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos> > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium > > Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ <http://consortium.pharo.org/> > Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com <http://spamcast.libsyn.com/> > Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller

Jan. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] What Logging framework for Pharo

by Atlas

philippeback wrote > Text is here to stay once we get into the sysadmin realm. People do not > want to deal with code internals when they are doing the piping. Just my > experience dealing with such admins working with a lot of different > systems. We cannot ask them to become polyglot coders as their hands are > full already. I agree that people should deal with code internals, that was my entire point. We should try to find ways to make systems more *self-representative, self-explanatory and direct*. People who want to instrument a system should not have to resort to programming, and, borrowing the metaphor from electronics they don't have to (at least for the static parts of the system, see my previous post). As for text: Who says that text is here to say? Just because it always has been this way, does not mean it always will. Instead of using the traditional ways and metaphors of building systems, we should look for better alternatives - isn't that the whole point of the Pharo project? And looking at the past of computing, there are a lot of good ideas and metaphors that need to be incorporated into Pharo, instead of doing old things in a slightly different fashion and repeating all mistakes in different clothings. In other words: To me the need for logging facilities is a symptom of a larger architectural problem: self-representation. This problem needs to be tackled at its roots and there are many ways to do this. The problem that I see is that immediate needs have to be satisfied but that doesn't mean to cave in. I won't, I am done with code hacking. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/What-Logging-framework-for-Pharo-tp4799073p4799263.ht… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] What Logging framework for Pharo

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Atlas <erde(a)chello.at> wrote: > It's all a matter of viewpoint, that's why we should include as many of > them > possible :) > > But, even though the answer was not directed as me, I'd like to step in: > > > Log4J does a good job of what I would consider the laymen spirit of > > logging production > he default event logging done captures the specific > > of class, line number, timestamp, method et als. > > A dog's breakfast actually. > > Strings lack self-description and this causes many unnecessary > architectural > problems. > > As Doru already pointed out, you have to write parsers and analysers to > interpret the output. And since might be many different formats for the > same > thing (dialects), you lose uniformity and have to handle all corner cases. > Worse yet, there is the implicit assumption that the software (or human) > inspecting the log has to understand all formats, i.e. has to have > knowledge > about: > What the names of the classes and methods mean, which subsystems (MQ, > databases) are in use and how their communication protocols look like etc. > And that does not factor in possible format changes or versions of > subsystems. > > It's hard to write generic browsers and analysers (the automated tooling > Doru pointed out) that way. > Also, there is the problem of reusing these parsers and analyers and code > duplication, maintenance issues etc. > > With that said, ultimately, it depends on the use cases.* For a fixed set * > of inspection use cases, this logging strategy might work fine. But it > certainly lacks the real flexibility to make a system more accessible and > to > adopt the generated information to the person and it's needs and > viewpoints. > You cannot address that easily with Log4j (or any logging facility for that > matter). As for Log4j and its 7 levels of logging: Why not 8, 9 or a 100? > What does INFO really mean? To whom? It all depends on the context. > > There are many, many usage scenarios and even more might pop up with more > accessible and comprehensible logging schemes. > > We need to go far beyond logging. > > Sure but with tools like http://www.fluentd.org/, and http://riemann.io/concepts.html, we are really blown out of the water with those logs we have now. Text is here to stay once we get into the sysadmin realm. People do not want to deal with code internals when they are doing the piping. Just my experience dealing with such admins working with a lot of different systems. We cannot ask them to become polyglot coders as their hands are full already. Phil > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/What-Logging-framework-for-Pharo-tp4799073p4799254.ht… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > -- --- Philippe Back Visible Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller

Jan. 13, 2015