December 2014 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Ben Coman

> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: > I miss the Tree View - being able to drill down in a _compact_ way. > Could that be a tab of its own? I actually think this "might" have > great potential - being able to navigate in both a vertical and > horizontal direction - allowing you to skip some levels between > opening a new pane horizontally. > > cheers -ben > Tudor Girba wrote: > The Raw view is a tree :) > > Doru > It works differently. See attached for example in both tools of... Smalltalk inspect. So I'll be more specific :) - I miss EyeTreeInspector form of tree view. btw, Congrats on getting Moose 5 out the door, for all the cool tools recently contributed to Pharo. cheers -ben cheers -ben

Dec. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ann] moose 5.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Super ! Thanks a lot. > On 24 Dec 2014, at 00:09, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > We are happy to announce Moose 5.0: > *http://moosetechnology.org/#install* > > > Description > --- > > This is by far the most extensive Moose release to date. Just take a look at these two trailers. > - Spotter: https://vimeo.com/113832673 > - Inspector: https://vimeo.com/103463364 > > The key highlights are: > - It is based on Pharo 3.0. > - Roassal2 is a complete reimplementation of the core visual engine of Moose. > - Roassal2 replaced Roassal, EyeSee and Graph-ET, and it features many new things including smooth animations, new composeable builders and several new layouts. > - All built-in Moose visualizations use Roassal2. > - Glamour has been extended with a Pager browser and with Rubric as the main text editor. > - GTSpotter is a new tool that makes it possible to find objects fast. > - GTInspector saw major usability improvements based on the Pager browser, and it now comes with many object specific extensions. > - GTPlayground provides a new way to handle scripts and when combined with GTInspector, it can replace the dedicated easels and editors. > - Moose Finder has been extended with the ability of handling in place visualizations. > - GTDebugger has been strengthen and was made more robust. > - PetitParser has been extended with the notion of context which enables elegant island parsing. > > A list of issues addressed in this release can be found at: > http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/list?can=1&q=status=Fixed%… > > > Installation > --- > > The Moose Suite 5.0 comes for each platform as a separate bundle: > - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Mac>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/moose_suite_5_0-mac.zip* > - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Windows>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/moose_suite_5_0-win.zip* > - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Linux>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/moose_suite_5_0-linux.zip* > > The Moose Suite 5.0 can also be loaded in a Pharo 3.0 image either from the Configuration Browser, or by executing the following script: > > ==Gofer new > == smalltalkhubUser: 'Moose' project: 'Moose'; > == configuration; > == loadStable > > > Happy holidays! > The Moose team

Dec. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by ClÃ©ment Bera

On Dec 23, 2014 9:36 PM, "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi Clement, > > Thanks for the detailed feedback. This is useful. Btw, did you try to > extend this view yourself? > Well I added other views (mostly roassal views) but not this one. > > It would actually be more useful to come from you given that you know what > you want to see and then we iterate. Here is a starting point: > > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/extending-variables-shown-in-gtinspec… > > If not, then could you advise me as to how to get the internal state > independent of the layout? > I think the issue is that #gtInspectorItemsIn: is in Collection whereas it should be on all objects that answers true to: "object class layout isVariable". One needs to check this method works on all variable objects (WordArray, ByteArray, CompiledMethod and WeakArray). But I don't know how to change that in gtInspector. > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 8:09 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> 2014-12-23 19:37 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> >>> >>> > On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical >>> question. I am actually interested in what you miss. >>> >>> What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) >>> >>> Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers >>> the key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that >>> was/is also the design goal. >>> >> >> No it covers only part of it. See below. >> >>> >>> The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes >>> some getting used to. >>> >>> But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to >>> improve. >>> >> >> My use case is simple, I have variable objects such as Context or >> BlockClosure, and when I inspect them I cannot see their variable fields >> with GTInspector. The old basicInspector allows me to see these fields. >> >> Example: >> >> | t | >> t := 1. >> [ t ] inspect >> >> GT visualisation: >> >> [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 1] >> >> Old visualisation: >> >> [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 2] >> >> In the old visualisation I could see the 1 with its value. >> >> Same problem with contexts. In the old basicInspector I could see all the >> stack fields, I can't see them anymore. >> >> Example: >> >> [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 3] >> >> [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 4] >> >> Therefore I need the old inspector to inspect Context and BlockClosure. I >> talk about Context and BlockClosure because they are the most annoying in >> my workflows, but the problem is more generic. GTInspector does not >> automatically detect the object's layout, on the contrary to the old >> inspector. Therefore when I do: >> >> Object variableSubclass: #MyVariableObject >> instanceVariableNames: '' >> classVariableNames: '' >> category: 'Banana' >> >> (MyVariableObject new: 3) inspect >> >> => I can't see any of the fields. >> >> Same issue with variableByteSubclass and co. And Context and BlockClosure >> falls into this category of objects (they're variableSubclasses). >> >> To me a basicInspector is an inspector that allows you to see the ALL the >> internal state of an object without hiding or changing the names of fields, >> and I do not have that (right now) with GTInspector on the contrary to the >> old inspectors. >> >> Note: don't mistake me, I use GTInspector for most of my daily work, I >> like it and it improved my productivity. There are just a few cases that do >> not work where I need to switch to the old inspector, mostly the ones I've >> just described. >> >> In addition, a visualization of tempName -> tempValue for inspectors on >> context is missing but that's a detail. >> >> > Doru >>> > >>> > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > Yes. >>> > >>> > World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit >>> > >>> > then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. >>> > >>> > I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic >>> inspector. >>> > >>> > 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: >>> > Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? >>> > >>> > I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in >>> Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I >>> tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is >>> really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to >>> get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. >>> There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to >>> me. >>> > To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is >>> probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this >>> environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use >>> the old tools. >>> > >>> > Norbert >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > www.tudorgirba.com >>> > >>> > "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Nicolai Hess

2014-12-23 22:46 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > The Raw view is a tree :) > > Doru > > It would be good if "self", in the bottom panel, is bound to the current selected item in the tree. And a "compact" tree view does not need to create a new pane to the right. ( I am still unfamilliar with the behavior: select an element and the whole tab scrolls to the left. For example, If you have more than one tab and you want to select an item in the right most tab for opening a new inspector on that item, the pane with the selected item scrolls away). nicolai

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] [ann] moose 5.0

by Aliaksei Syrel

Juhuuuuu! Congratulations :) Cheers, Alex On Dec 24, 2014 2:09 AM, "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > We are happy to announce Moose 5.0: > *http://moosetechnology.org/#install* > > > Description > --- > > This is by far the most extensive Moose release to date. Just take a look > at these two trailers. > - Spotter: https://vimeo.com/113832673 > - Inspector: https://vimeo.com/103463364 > > The key highlights are: > - It is based on Pharo 3.0. > - Roassal2 is a complete reimplementation of the core visual engine of > Moose. > - Roassal2 replaced Roassal, EyeSee and Graph-ET, and it features many new > things including smooth animations, new composeable builders and several > new layouts. > - All built-in Moose visualizations use Roassal2. > - Glamour has been extended with a Pager browser and with Rubric as the > main text editor. > - GTSpotter is a new tool that makes it possible to find objects fast. > - GTInspector saw major usability improvements based on the Pager browser, > and it now comes with many object specific extensions. > - GTPlayground provides a new way to handle scripts and when combined with > GTInspector, it can replace the dedicated easels and editors. > - Moose Finder has been extended with the ability of handling in place > visualizations. > - GTDebugger has been strengthen and was made more robust. > - PetitParser has been extended with the notion of context which enables > elegant island parsing. > > A list of issues addressed in this release can be found at: > > http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/list?can=1&q=status=Fixed%… > > > Installation > --- > > The Moose Suite 5.0 comes for each platform as a separate bundle: > - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Mac>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/ > moose_suite_5_0-mac.zip > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_5_0-mac.zip> > * > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_4_8-mac.zip*> > - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Windows>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/ > moose_suite_5_0-win.zip > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_5_0-win.zip> > * > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_4_8-win.zip*> > - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Linux>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/ > moose_suite_5_0-linux.zip > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_5_0-linux.zip> > * > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_4_8-linux.zi…> > > The Moose Suite 5.0 can also be loaded in a Pharo 3.0 image either from > the Configuration Browser, or by executing the following script: > > ==Gofer new > == smalltalkhubUser: 'Moose' project: 'Moose'; > == configuration; > == loadStable > > > Happy holidays! > The Moose team >

Dec. 23, 2014

[ann] moose 5.0

by Tudor Girba

We are happy to announce Moose 5.0: *http://moosetechnology.org/#install* Description --- This is by far the most extensive Moose release to date. Just take a look at these two trailers. - Spotter: https://vimeo.com/113832673 - Inspector: https://vimeo.com/103463364 The key highlights are: - It is based on Pharo 3.0. - Roassal2 is a complete reimplementation of the core visual engine of Moose. - Roassal2 replaced Roassal, EyeSee and Graph-ET, and it features many new things including smooth animations, new composeable builders and several new layouts. - All built-in Moose visualizations use Roassal2. - Glamour has been extended with a Pager browser and with Rubric as the main text editor. - GTSpotter is a new tool that makes it possible to find objects fast. - GTInspector saw major usability improvements based on the Pager browser, and it now comes with many object specific extensions. - GTPlayground provides a new way to handle scripts and when combined with GTInspector, it can replace the dedicated easels and editors. - Moose Finder has been extended with the ability of handling in place visualizations. - GTDebugger has been strengthen and was made more robust. - PetitParser has been extended with the notion of context which enables elegant island parsing. A list of issues addressed in this release can be found at: http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/list?can=1&q=status=Fixed%… Installation --- The Moose Suite 5.0 comes for each platform as a separate bundle: - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Mac>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/ moose_suite_5_0-mac.zip <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_5_0-mac.zip> * <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_4_8-mac.zip*> - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Windows>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/ moose_suite_5_0-win.zip <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_5_0-win.zip> * <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_4_8-win.zip*> - *Moose Suite 5.0 for Linux>http://moosetechnology.org/res/download/ moose_suite_5_0-linux.zip <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_5_0-linux.zip> * <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18323746/Moose/moose_suite_4_8-linux.zi…> The Moose Suite 5.0 can also be loaded in a Pharo 3.0 image either from the Configuration Browser, or by executing the following script: ==Gofer new == smalltalkhubUser: 'Moose' project: 'Moose'; == configuration; == loadStable Happy holidays! The Moose team

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Tudor Girba

The Raw view is a tree :) Doru On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical >>> question. I am actually interested in what you miss. >>> >> >> What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) >> >> Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the >> key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is >> also the design goal. >> >> The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes >> some getting used to. >> >> But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to >> improve. >> > > I miss the Tree View - being able to drill down in a _compact_ way. Could > that be a tab of its own? I actually think this "might" have great > potential - being able to navigate in both a vertical and horizontal > direction - allowing you to skip some levels between opening a new pane > horizontally. > > cheers -ben > > > >> Doru >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> Yes. >>> >>> World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit >>> then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. >>> >>> I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic >>> inspector. >>> >>> 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: >>> Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? >>> >>> I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in >>> Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I >>> tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is >>> really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to >>> get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. >>> There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to >>> me. >>> To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is >>> probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this >>> environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use >>> the old tools. >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Ben Coman

Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical question. I am actually interested in what you miss. > > What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) > > Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is also the design goal. > > The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes some getting used to. > > But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to improve. I miss the Tree View - being able to drill down in a _compact_ way. Could that be a tab of its own? I actually think this "might" have great potential - being able to navigate in both a vertical and horizontal direction - allowing you to skip some levels between opening a new pane horizontally. cheers -ben > >> Doru >> >> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Yes. >> >> World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit >> >> then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. >> >> I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic inspector. >> >> 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: >> Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? >> >> I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to me. >> To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use the old tools. >> >> Norbert >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" > > >

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Tudor Girba

Hi Clement, Thanks for the detailed feedback. This is useful. Btw, did you try to extend this view yourself? It would actually be more useful to come from you given that you know what you want to see and then we iterate. Here is a starting point: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/extending-variables-shown-in-gtinspec… If not, then could you advise me as to how to get the internal state independent of the layout? Cheers, Doru On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 8:09 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2014-12-23 19:37 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > >> >> > On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical >> question. I am actually interested in what you miss. >> >> What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) >> >> Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the >> key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is >> also the design goal. >> > > No it covers only part of it. See below. > >> >> The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes >> some getting used to. >> >> But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to >> improve. >> > > My use case is simple, I have variable objects such as Context or > BlockClosure, and when I inspect them I cannot see their variable fields > with GTInspector. The old basicInspector allows me to see these fields. > > Example: > > | t | > t := 1. > [ t ] inspect > > GT visualisation: > > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 1] > > Old visualisation: > > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 2] > > In the old visualisation I could see the 1 with its value. > > Same problem with contexts. In the old basicInspector I could see all the > stack fields, I can't see them anymore. > > Example: > > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 3] > > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 4] > > Therefore I need the old inspector to inspect Context and BlockClosure. I > talk about Context and BlockClosure because they are the most annoying in > my workflows, but the problem is more generic. GTInspector does not > automatically detect the object's layout, on the contrary to the old > inspector. Therefore when I do: > > Object variableSubclass: #MyVariableObject > instanceVariableNames: '' > classVariableNames: '' > category: 'Banana' > > (MyVariableObject new: 3) inspect > > => I can't see any of the fields. > > Same issue with variableByteSubclass and co. And Context and BlockClosure > falls into this category of objects (they're variableSubclasses). > > To me a basicInspector is an inspector that allows you to see the ALL the > internal state of an object without hiding or changing the names of fields, > and I do not have that (right now) with GTInspector on the contrary to the > old inspectors. > > Note: don't mistake me, I use GTInspector for most of my daily work, I > like it and it improved my productivity. There are just a few cases that do > not work where I need to switch to the old inspector, mostly the ones I've > just described. > > In addition, a visualization of tempName -> tempValue for inspectors on > context is missing but that's a detail. > > > Doru >> > >> > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Yes. >> > >> > World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit >> > >> > then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground. >> > >> > I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic >> inspector. >> > >> > 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: >> > Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? >> > >> > I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in >> Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I >> tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is >> really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to >> get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. >> There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to >> me. >> > To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is >> probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this >> environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use >> the old tools. >> > >> > Norbert >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > www.tudorgirba.com >> > >> > "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 23, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Old inspector and explorer

by Tudor Girba

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical > question. I am actually interested in what you miss. > > What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-) I am on holidays :) Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 23, 2014