April 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by Dale Henrichs

Bernhard, With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to recommend that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm willing to help as much as I can). The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable sharing of packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that possibly the most important aspect is a shared VCS (git/github). If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will see a reference implementation written against Pharo. The reference implementation is a work in progress and the initial implementation was done for Amber[2]. Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking a few ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots ... more than a few:)) the code base is independent of Monticello. The fact that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system access) speaks volumes for it's portability. To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code between dialects you should allow your developers to import and export code using the Cypress package format. If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a few other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress project and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the Cypress project before tackling another port ... We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up on the offer of help:) Dale [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress [3] http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard(a)pieber.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk | | Hi GÃ¶ran, | | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not | straightforward but I consider it possible. | | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to Cuis | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can be | done is the following: | Split Cuis into three parts, | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the | Cuis tools | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on â this | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent | years cleaning it | c) the Smalltalk kernel below | | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. | | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text Editor | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. | | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, | of course! ;-) | | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible to | develop substantial components as you called it â thank you for that | as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) | | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask everyone | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run on | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! | | Peace, | Bernhard | | P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish different | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement | posting has caused. | | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: | > Hi! | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? | >> | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap and | >> make it getting real. | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real. | >> So can you help us to get focused? | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a | >> roadmap | >> and we will do it. | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in | > this case Cuis). | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining | > everything for ourselves, right? | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really | > applicable in this case. | > | > regards, GÃ¶ran | > | | |

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo conf. Social Event

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Sven I will check with luc to see what we can do. Now the Pharo association does not have a bank account yet :). Stef On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:47 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Stef, > > On 23 Apr 2012, at 19:25, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> For the conference, the lunches and coffee breaks are covered by INRIA and EMD. >> >> Now I would like to organize the social event for the thursday evening. Now our team cannot cover it because our budget is tight but I can have a really good restaurant (I know personally the cook). We could have a really good diner for around 30-35 Euros (with a cook cooking everything live in the back). Now I need to know who would like to join. You can come with your partners. >> >> So please let me know because like that I can book the restaurant. >> >> Stef > > I would surely like to participate to the diner, like most of us probably. > > But practically, for me and probably others, it would be easier to just pay some amount for the conference (with option diner x persons), that way it can be one official expense upfront and we can support the conference a bit as well. > > Like, 20 euro participation plus 40 euro per diner per person (food+wine) ? > Could be more, but I am thinking about the students as well. > > Sven > >

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not straightforward but I consider it possible. > > Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to Cuis so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can be done is the following: > Split Cuis into three parts, > a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the Cuis tools > b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on â this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent years cleaning it > c) the Smalltalk kernel below good idea > The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, one for Squeak and one for Pharo. > > Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. > > I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, of course! ;-) > > I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible to develop substantial components as you called it â thank you for that as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not straightforward but I consider it possible. > > Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to Cuis so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can be done is the following: > Split Cuis into three parts, > a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the Cuis tools > b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on â this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent years cleaning it > c) the Smalltalk kernel below good idea > The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, one for Squeak and one for Pharo. > > Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. > > I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, of course! ;-) > > I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible to develop substantial components as you called it â thank you for that as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo conf. Social Event

by Esteban Lorenzano

I'm in :) On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 23 April 2012 19:25, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> For the conference, the lunches and coffee breaks are covered by INRIA and EMD. >> >> Now I would like to organize the social event for the thursday evening. Now our team cannot cover it because our budget is tight but I can have a really good restaurant (I know personally the cook). We could have a really good diner for around 30-35 Euros (with a cook cooking everything live in the back). Now I need to know who would like to join. You can come with your partners. >> >> So please let me know because like that I can book the restaurant. >> > if my company still not too boring, you can invite me with Lusy :) > >> Stef >> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko.

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] PharoLauncher for Mac users

by Igor Stasenko

Nice.. Fernando also using some kind of launcher.. But nothing can beat good old console ( right, Camillo? ;) On 23 April 2012 17:23, HwaJong Oh <daliot.oh(a)gmail.com> wrote: > If you are a Mac(Lion) user, who program in Pharo or other Squeak-like > Smalltalk (Squeak, Cobalt, Seaside one-click, Croquet, EToy, DrGeo > one-click, ...) , there is a better way to manage your images. > > It is fast to launch an image, easy to manage various VM and image > combinations without confusion, safe to delete image files, fast to > laucn&quit images to review many images, easy to launch many images > simultaneously. > > You can download it in AppStore: > http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pharo-launcher/id503025789?mt=12 > Demonstration video 1: http://screencast.com/t/jJQD4JjXx > Demonstration video 2: http://screencast.com/t/UZIbf3dk7 > > New version of it is released every one or more weeks. > People who are using PharoLauncher(SeungBum Kim, Kuritar, Serge, Laurent) > gave me many feedbacks, and some of them are implemented. > > I hope you enjoy PharoLauncher. Any feedback is appreciated. > > HwaJong Oh > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-PharoLauncher-for-Mac-users-tp4580756p4580756.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo conf. Social Event

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 April 2012 19:25, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi, > > For the conference, the lunches and coffee breaks are covered by INRIA and EMD. > > Now I would like to organize the social event for the thursday evening. Now our team cannot cover it because our budget is tight but I can have a really good restaurant (I know personally the cook). We could have a really good diner for around 30-35 Euros (with a cook cooking everything live in the back). Now I need to know who would like to join. You can come with your partners. > > So please let me know because like that I can book the restaurant. > if my company still not too boring, you can invite me with Lusy :) > Stef > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo conf. Social Event

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Stef, On 23 Apr 2012, at 19:25, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi, > > For the conference, the lunches and coffee breaks are covered by INRIA and EMD. > > Now I would like to organize the social event for the thursday evening. Now our team cannot cover it because our budget is tight but I can have a really good restaurant (I know personally the cook). We could have a really good diner for around 30-35 Euros (with a cook cooking everything live in the back). Now I need to know who would like to join. You can come with your partners. > > So please let me know because like that I can book the restaurant. > > Stef I would surely like to participate to the diner, like most of us probably. But practically, for me and probably others, it would be easier to just pay some amount for the conference (with option diner x persons), that way it can be one official expense upfront and we can support the conference a bit as well. Like, 20 euro participation plus 40 euro per diner per person (food+wine) ? Could be more, but I am thinking about the students as well. Sven

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] The Squeak vs Pharo hostility... (was Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk)

by Igor Stasenko

I stop reacting to these things long ago. It just a waste of time. I don't care if people prefer A over B or C over D, as long as they are not evangelizing me make same choice. I never spew on Squeak or people, since i am part of community.. and its like spewing on myself at the end... Apart from it, lying the facts about quality of some smelly Squeak code (and consequently Pharo as well, since it inherits from it). There is no need to divide on camps. Bad code is bad code, no matter if it is in Squeak or Pharo. As i told before, i prefer to call 'crap' what is crap. And it is completely neutral towards fork(s), and based only on quality of code in question and my bias towards better solutions :) And i expect that pointing out to this should not provoke negative emotions, but an efforts to fix it (or discussion how to fix it). And i DO respect an effort of people who implemented things we using.. Even if implementation not perfect. But hey, we are here to fix it! And pointing out to flaw is a first step. 2012/4/23 GÃ¶ran Krampe <goran(a)krampe.se>: > Hey all! > > On 04/23/2012 03:43 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> >>>> It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. >>>> It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact >>>> that it happened. >>> >>> >>> Yeah, I don't care either about who started it - I am just tired of it >>> :). >> >> >> May be other people are tired by other aspects? >> No? I guess so. > > > I don't follow. What do you mean? > >> We have a vision and people can help making it true or not. :) >> But our goal is to support business emerge (with our little mean) but we >> try hard. > > > I know and I am all behind it, 100%. The thing is, this "history" behind the > Squeak/Pharo divide is still lurking between the lines and I (personally) am > tired of it. > > For example, I often get the feeling that my posts to this list raise > replies as if I am some kind of "outsider", just because I was heavily > involved in Squeak earlier or something. > > I am a Pharoer too. I may be more of a bystander these days than a > contributor (since I don't have a lot of time to spend) - but I am only > using *Pharo* these days, not Squeak. Yup, sorry Squeak, but it is just the > reality. I *still* wish the best for Squeak though, and all other open > source or commercial efforts in the Smalltalk arena. > > I think it would be nice if we all could be a little bit more positive and > inclusive, especially the people who are prominent in our (overlapping) > communities - you set the example. :) > > I really don't see any gain in Pharo spewing negatives over Squeak, Squeak > is still the inheritage of Pharo and I for one am proud of the friendliness > of the Smalltalk community. Nor of course see I any gain in spewing in the > other direction, it goes both ways. > > Now, I suspect this light criticism wrapped up in smileys and all, and with > all the good intentions, will still lead to negative replies. But I hope > not. Perhaps time to simply move on? ;) > > regards, GÃ¶ran > > PS. I love all the momentum in Pharo right now, it all looks very good, and > I am itching digging into 1.4! Superb work. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] monticello repos speedup

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-04-23, at 19:55, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 23 Apr 2012, at 19:26, Camillo Bruni wrote: > >> I just checked doing a HEAD request on squeaksource (which works but is far from being optimal...) on the massive Pharo repos (9000 files) >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Pharo/Morphic-StephaneDucasse.918.mcz >> >> list: ~6.5 sec >> get: ~6.5 sec >> head: ~4.5 sec >> >> clearly faster! how about adding additional HEAD support? > > You are using a slow reference system, I can be faster: > > [ ZnEasy get: 'http://mc.stfx.eu/ZincHTTPComponents/Zinc-HTTP-SvenVanCaekenberghe.261.mcz' ] timeToRun. 454 > [ ZnEasy head: 'http://mc.stfx.eu/ZincHTTPComponents/Zinc-HTTP-SvenVanCaekenberghe.261.mcz' ] timeToRun. 92 > > What I mean is, the server is another problem than the client side. yeah! this is more of what I wanted to say / expected :) I'll file a bug report for gemstone... My latest fix includes a HEAD request shortcut for #includesFileNamed: for squeaksource. best cami

April 23, 2012