I stop reacting to these things long ago. It just a waste of time. I don't care if people prefer A over B or C over D, as long as they are not evangelizing me make same choice. I never spew on Squeak or people, since i am part of community.. and its like spewing on myself at the end... Apart from it, lying the facts about quality of some smelly Squeak code (and consequently Pharo as well, since it inherits from it). There is no need to divide on camps. Bad code is bad code, no matter if it is in Squeak or Pharo. As i told before, i prefer to call 'crap' what is crap. And it is completely neutral towards fork(s), and based only on quality of code in question and my bias towards better solutions :) And i expect that pointing out to this should not provoke negative emotions, but an efforts to fix it (or discussion how to fix it). And i DO respect an effort of people who implemented things we using.. Even if implementation not perfect. But hey, we are here to fix it! And pointing out to flaw is a first step. 2012/4/23 Göran Krampe <goran@krampe.se>:
Hey all!
On 04/23/2012 03:43 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact that it happened.
Yeah, I don't care either about who started it - I am just tired of it :).
May be other people are tired by other aspects? No? I guess so.
I don't follow. What do you mean?
We have a vision and people can help making it true or not. :) But our goal is to support business emerge (with our little mean) but we try hard.
I know and I am all behind it, 100%. The thing is, this "history" behind the Squeak/Pharo divide is still lurking between the lines and I (personally) am tired of it.
For example, I often get the feeling that my posts to this list raise replies as if I am some kind of "outsider", just because I was heavily involved in Squeak earlier or something.
I am a Pharoer too. I may be more of a bystander these days than a contributor (since I don't have a lot of time to spend) - but I am only using *Pharo* these days, not Squeak. Yup, sorry Squeak, but it is just the reality. I *still* wish the best for Squeak though, and all other open source or commercial efforts in the Smalltalk arena.
I think it would be nice if we all could be a little bit more positive and inclusive, especially the people who are prominent in our (overlapping) communities - you set the example. :)
I really don't see any gain in Pharo spewing negatives over Squeak, Squeak is still the inheritage of Pharo and I for one am proud of the friendliness of the Smalltalk community. Nor of course see I any gain in spewing in the other direction, it goes both ways.
Now, I suspect this light criticism wrapped up in smileys and all, and with all the good intentions, will still lead to negative replies. But I hope not. Perhaps time to simply move on? ;)
regards, Göran
PS. I love all the momentum in Pharo right now, it all looks very good, and I am itching digging into 1.4! Superb work.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.