October 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Bryce 7, Hexagon2.5, and Daz Studio 3D over here :-) Not sure I want Pharo to mix with those... but they make nice Pharo backgrounds for sure. Phil 2012/10/18 dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > yeap that would be great because that would mean I could share the same > window with blender and that I would have immediate access to all blender > functions . But that would require some hackery beyond my level of skill. > Who know maybe one day , I will be able to do just that. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis < > thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > *Sent:* Thursday, 18 October 2012, 22:20 > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > > On Oct 18, 2012, at 8:54 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hey Stef > > > > You mean this ? -> > http://forum.world.st/WaveFront-File-importer-on-Pharo-td4640327.html > > > > Well not exactly a blender importer , but yes it could be used to import > blender models. By the way , my goal is not to bring models of blender to > pharo , but more to use pharo to "script" blender, as python is used now to > make addons for blender. > > Yes I got it and this is a cool idea. Ideally I would love to have a > really small image with a vm that we can embed directly in software as > blender and script them :) > > > So I try to replace python with pharo. Of course visual coding is much > more than that, but this is none the less my first step. I try to achieve > this with triggering python command via sockets from pharo to blender. > Ideally I could generate st methods and classes for all blender python > methods and classes. But that is for much later. > > > > Still it could be handy to display 3d blender data in pharo. My vision > is that both blender and pharo window will be displayed one next to the > other, with the user using the pharo window doing visual coding or > procedural generation of 3d objects , materials, textures , particles etc > and seeing the final result in blender window. If you are familiar with > Softimage ICE this is more or less the field of application for "Ephestos". > But still could be handy to do some displaying in pharo as well so that the > blender window could be minimised. > > > > This is a video with Softimage ICE. Quite interesting even if you are > not interested in 3d graphics. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=do1kzR6gVYk > > > > That could be extended even to blender game engine , so that pharo via > blender can be used to make 3d games. So yeah sky is the limit. But for now > , just basic sockets to trigger simple python eval commands and gradually > build from there and see how far I can go with this idea. > > > > From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis < > thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:56 > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > > > for your information jb did a blender importer and you can play with > blender 3d objects in Pharo. > > > > Stef > > > > > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:43 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > > > > > > > > I am a blender developer , using python to make blender addons. My > latest complete one is Gyes and Random Material and Texture Generator. > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/System/Gyes > > > > > > Since I was a child I was dreaming of making a system that would use > GUIs like the one that I saw in many spaceship movies, fluid futuristic > GUIs that could issue way more complex commands than our modern window type > GUIs. It was a childs dream, filed as too ambitious and stored there with > the rest of too far fetched child dreams. And it was early this year that I > was introduced to Smalltalk. I really like python but it was obvious to me > that I needed something a lot more. It was that itch I had to scratch. I > was very impressed with morphic and squeak and the whole enviroment and of > course pharo. I was looking for a live coding enviroment with an ephasis on > visual side and I think smalltalk fit like a glove for me. Morphic fit > exactly my lego brick logic, I am a very synthetic person I like to keep > things minimal and simple and synthesize complex structures out of them. > Its a workflow I follow with my entire life not just coding. > > > > > > So I started a thread in Blenderartists forum ( > http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?250375-A-Visual-Programming-…) about how people saw the possibility of implementing a visual programming > enviroment for blender with a very flexible GUI. I thought it would be one > of those threads that none really cared and people would say "we have > python why bother with a visual coding enviroment at all, python is very > easy to learn" or "why should I care about coding at all I am merely a > user". And of course I had such reactions but to my surprise the thread > just went viral and people seems very excited with the ideas of Ephestos. > > > > > > So we sat down with another developer using Morphic code from a > smalltalk coder , that he made for python and pygame and we tried to port > to Blender libraries instead. Code wise it went much better in our side , > suprisingly enough both he and found Morphic very easy to understand. But > we came across some severe bugs and limitations at blender side that make > it evident that if I wanted to keep this in python I had to dirty my hands > with some C and diving inside Blender source. > > > > > > It also became more and more evident that squeak and pharo already > implemented many of the ideas I had for Ephestos, and there was no way I > could port all the features both offered to python just me and another > coder in our free time. So I did the logical thing. Droped the idea of > keeping the project pure python and now I have slowly started to porting it > to Squeak/Pharo and I am using sockets to communicate with blender. > > > > > > The goal is of course Visual Coding together with several other ideas > I have for RAD. Its not something bound by goals but more an exploration of > potential. If the project progress well, I think it will be a win for both > blender and squeak/pharo. > > > > > > At one side Blender developer will be exposed to the true power and > flexibility of smalltalk, at the other hand the smalltalk community will > have access to such a powerful amazing 3d application as blender. So I > think it will be a double win. > > > > > > My preference towards pharo has to do with Nativeboost , I think that > it may play an important role in the future and of course there are > libraries like Athens that I would love to explore but ideally I would like > to make Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. > > > > > > In essense squeak and pharo have been an inspiration for Ephestos and > the true driving force for making it reality and I can see myself making > Ephestos a life project because Its just pure fun for me working on > something like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> > > > To: "pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" < > pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2012, 14:43 > > > Subject: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > > > > > Hey there, > > > > > > I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how > exciting this is. > > > > > > Have something to share? > > > > > > What's your story with it? > > > > > > What got you excited? why it worked for you? > > > > > > sebastian > > > > > > o/ > > > > > > pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] pharo on ipad3 -- tiny image shown only

by Jan Äada

Hi Esteban, I have been experiencing this issue as well. The main trouble is that on retina devices OpenGL works in pixels while other API's are working in points. I updated the SqueakUIViewOpenGL.m file to respect the difference between device pixels and points. I tested on both Retina iPad and iPad 2. Please see updated file attached. Regards, Jan On 18 Sep 2012, at 22:50, Johan Brichau <johan(a)inceptive.be> wrote: > Hi Esteban, > > Thanks for sharing the secret ;-) > > I checked out latest sources and ran ConfigurationOfPharoVM version 2.0-4 but it does not work out-of-the-box. > Right now, I just forced to always use the SqueakUIViewCALayer. Need to check why it took the other one.. > > Johan > > On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:34, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> secret is not use OpenGL but CALayer... ensure you start with SqueakUIViewCALayer instead SqueakUIViewOpenGL (btw... if you were using my sources, that should be out of the box). >> >> I'm working to doit with a better mechanism (OpenGL or CG), but so far... no time :) >> >> Esteban >> >> On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)edu.ge.ch> wrote: >> >>> Esteban should be able to tell. >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> >> >> > >

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by dimitris chloupis

yeap that would be great because that would mean I could share the same window with blender and that I would have immediate access to all blender functions . But that would require some hackery beyond my level of skill. Who know maybe one day , I will be able to do just that. ________________________________ From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 22:20 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? On Oct 18, 2012, at 8:54 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > > > > Hey Stef > > You mean this ? -> http://forum.world.st/WaveFront-File-importer-on-Pharo-td4640327.html > > Well not exactly a blender importer , but yes it could be used to import blender models. By the way , my goal is not to bring models of blender to pharo , but more to use pharo to "script" blender, as python is used now to make addons for blender. Yes I got it and this is a cool idea. Ideally I would love to have a really small image with a vm that we can embed directly in software as blender and script them :) > So I try to replace python with pharo. Of course visual coding is much more than that, but this is none the less my first step. I try to achieve this with triggering python command via sockets from pharo to blender. Ideally I could generate st methods and classes for all blender python methods and classes. But that is for much later. > > Still it could be handy to display 3d blender data in pharo. My vision is that both blender and pharo window will be displayed one next to the other, with the user using the pharo window doing visual coding or procedural generation of 3d objects , materials, textures , particles etc and seeing the final result in blender window. If you are familiar with Softimage ICE this is more or less the field of application for "Ephestos". But still could be handy to do some displaying in pharo as well so that the blender window could be minimised.Â > > This is a video with Softimage ICE. Quite interesting even if you are not interested in 3d graphics. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=do1kzR6gVYk > > That could be extended even to blender game engine , so that pharo via blender can be used to make 3d games. So yeah sky is the limit. But for now , just basic sockets to trigger simple python eval commands and gradually build from there and see how far I can go with this idea. > > From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:56 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > for your information jb did a blender importer and you can play with blender 3d objects in Pharo. > > Stef > > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:43 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > > > > > I am a blender developer , using python to make blender addons. My latest complete one is Gyes and Random Material and Texture Generator. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/System/Gyes > > > > Since I was a child I was dreaming of making a system that would use GUIs like the one that I saw in many spaceship movies, fluid futuristic GUIs that could issue way more complex commands than our modern window type GUIs. It was a childs dream, filed as too ambitious and stored there with the rest of too far fetched child dreams. And it was early this year that I was introduced to Smalltalk. I really like python but it was obvious to me that I needed something a lot more. It was that itch I had to scratch. I was very impressed with morphic and squeak and the whole enviroment and of course pharo. I was looking for a live coding enviroment with an ephasis on visual side and I think smalltalk fit like a glove for me. Morphic fit exactly my lego brick logic, I am a very synthetic person I like to keep things minimal and simple and synthesize complex structures out of them. Its a workflow I follow with my entire life not just coding. > > > > So I started a thread in Blenderartists forum ( http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?250375-A-Visual-Programming-… ) about how people saw the possibility of implementing a visual programming enviroment for blender with a very flexible GUI. I thought it would be one of those threads that none really cared and people would say "we have python why bother with a visual coding enviroment at all, python is very easy to learn" or "why should I care about coding at all I am merely a user".Â And of course I had such reactions but to my surprise the thread just went viral and people seems very excited with the ideas of Ephestos. > > > > So we sat down with another developer using Morphic code from a smalltalk coder , that he made for python and pygame and we tried to port to Blender libraries instead. Code wise it went much better in our side , suprisingly enough both he and found Morphic very easy to understand. But we came across some severe bugs and limitations at blender side that make it evident that if I wanted to keep this in python I had to dirty my hands with some C and diving inside Blender source. > > > > It also became more and more evident that squeak and pharo already implemented many of the ideas I had for Ephestos, and there was no way I could port all the features both offered to python just me and another coder in our free time. So I did the logical thing. Droped the idea of keeping the project pure python and now I have slowly started to porting it toÂ Squeak/Pharo and I am using sockets to communicate with blender. > > > > The goal is of course Visual Coding together with several other ideas I have for RAD. Its not something bound by goals but more an exploration of potential. If the project progress well, I think it will be a win for both blender and squeak/pharo. > > > > At one side Blender developer will be exposed to the true power and flexibility of smalltalk, at the other hand the smalltalk community will have access to such a powerful amazing 3d application as blender. So I think it will be a double win. > > > > My preference towards pharo has to do with Nativeboost , I think that it may play an important role in the future and of course there are libraries like Athens that I would love to explore but ideally I would like to make Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. > > > > In essense squeak and pharo have been an inspiration for Ephestos and the true driving force for making it reality and I can see myself making Ephestos a life project because Its just pure fun for me working on something like that. > > > > > > > > > > From: Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> > > To: "pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2012, 14:43 > > Subject: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > > > Hey there, > > > > I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how exciting this is. > > > > Have something to share? > > > > What's your story with it? > > > > What got you excited? why it worked for you? > > > > sebastian > > > > o/ > > > > pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber > > > > > > > > >

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo

by dimitris chloupis

thank you for your help Igor ________________________________ From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 22:23 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo On 18 October 2012 19:43, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > wow that simple! thank you very much Igor ! > > Besides sockets , is there any other way to make pharo communicate with > another language like python ? I am worried that sockets may introduce some > significant lag to my communication, are my fears correct ? Generally > speaking a response time of few milliseconds should be fine. > should be fine. unless you start wasting cycles on xml :) > ________________________________ > From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis > <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:46 > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo > > On 18 October 2012 18:33, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> >> From: dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> >> To: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:31 >> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo >> >> good question. I dont , that is why I asked for alternatives . How you >> guys >> make pharo communicate with other languages ? >> >> Yes I can send bare strings . I wonder however what is the fastest way to >> do >> so. >> > stream := SocketStream openConnectionToHost: hostIP port: portNumber. > stream nextPutAll: 'here comes the command'. > stream close. > >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis >> <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> >> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 18:22 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo >> >> On 18 October 2012 16:41, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>> Hi there I need a way to make pharo communicate with blender python. I >>> have >>> been successful making external cpython and pypy talk to blender cpython >>> via >>> XMLRPC. Now I want my pharo project "Ephestos" to control blender python >>> by >>> sending python command that then a blender addon which is written in >>> python >>> will execute. >>> >>> Is there such a XMLRPC library for pharo, and how do I use it. And also >>> what >>> are the alternatives ? >> >> why you need xml for that? >> >> can't you just send bare strings, which then be simply eval'ed on other >> side? >> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 17:35 >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] new command line api to build images >>> >>> Very cool! >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> We're almost there, create your images from the command-line with a >>> very limited number of bash lines ;) >>> >>> >>> >>> #==================================================================================== >>> VM=`pharo-shell-scripts/fetchLatestVM.sh` >>> unzip -ou Pharo-2.0.zip -d . && cd Pharo-2.0 >>> >>> $VM -headless Pharo-2.0.image config http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/ci >>> ConfigurationOfCI --install >>> $VM -headless Pharo-2.0.image save CI --delete-old >>> >>> zip -r CI.zip CI.changes CI.image *.sources >>> >>> >>> #==================================================================================== >>> >>> there you go, a new image named CI with the given configuration >>> installed. >>> >>> We still have to extend the API a little bit to support loading specific >>> groups >>> from a Metacello config + accessing repositories by username and >>> password. >>> >>> >>> best >>> cami >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo

by Igor Stasenko

On 18 October 2012 19:43, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > wow that simple! thank you very much Igor ! > > Besides sockets , is there any other way to make pharo communicate with > another language like python ? I am worried that sockets may introduce some > significant lag to my communication, are my fears correct ? Generally > speaking a response time of few milliseconds should be fine. > should be fine. unless you start wasting cycles on xml :) > ________________________________ > From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis > <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:46 > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo > > On 18 October 2012 18:33, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> >> From: dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> >> To: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:31 >> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo >> >> good question. I dont , that is why I asked for alternatives . How you >> guys >> make pharo communicate with other languages ? >> >> Yes I can send bare strings . I wonder however what is the fastest way to >> do >> so. >> > stream := SocketStream openConnectionToHost: hostIP port: portNumber. > stream nextPutAll: 'here comes the command'. > stream close. > >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis >> <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> >> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 18:22 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo >> >> On 18 October 2012 16:41, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>> Hi there I need a way to make pharo communicate with blender python. I >>> have >>> been successful making external cpython and pypy talk to blender cpython >>> via >>> XMLRPC. Now I want my pharo project "Ephestos" to control blender python >>> by >>> sending python command that then a blender addon which is written in >>> python >>> will execute. >>> >>> Is there such a XMLRPC library for pharo, and how do I use it. And also >>> what >>> are the alternatives ? >> >> why you need xml for that? >> >> can't you just send bare strings, which then be simply eval'ed on other >> side? >> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 17:35 >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] new command line api to build images >>> >>> Very cool! >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> We're almost there, create your images from the command-line with a >>> very limited number of bash lines ;) >>> >>> >>> >>> #==================================================================================== >>> VM=`pharo-shell-scripts/fetchLatestVM.sh` >>> unzip -ou Pharo-2.0.zip -d . && cd Pharo-2.0 >>> >>> $VM -headless Pharo-2.0.image config http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/ci >>> ConfigurationOfCI --install >>> $VM -headless Pharo-2.0.image save CI --delete-old >>> >>> zip -r CI.zip CI.changes CI.image *.sources >>> >>> >>> #==================================================================================== >>> >>> there you go, a new image named CI with the given configuration >>> installed. >>> >>> We still have to extend the API a little bit to support loading specific >>> groups >>> from a Metacello config + accessing repositories by username and >>> password. >>> >>> >>> best >>> cami >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 18, 2012, at 8:54 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > > > > Hey Stef > > You mean this ? -> http://forum.world.st/WaveFront-File-importer-on-Pharo-td4640327.html > > Well not exactly a blender importer , but yes it could be used to import blender models. By the way , my goal is not to bring models of blender to pharo , but more to use pharo to "script" blender, as python is used now to make addons for blender. Yes I got it and this is a cool idea. Ideally I would love to have a really small image with a vm that we can embed directly in software as blender and script them :) > So I try to replace python with pharo. Of course visual coding is much more than that, but this is none the less my first step. I try to achieve this with triggering python command via sockets from pharo to blender. Ideally I could generate st methods and classes for all blender python methods and classes. But that is for much later. > > Still it could be handy to display 3d blender data in pharo. My vision is that both blender and pharo window will be displayed one next to the other, with the user using the pharo window doing visual coding or procedural generation of 3d objects , materials, textures , particles etc and seeing the final result in blender window. If you are familiar with Softimage ICE this is more or less the field of application for "Ephestos". But still could be handy to do some displaying in pharo as well so that the blender window could be minimised. > > This is a video with Softimage ICE. Quite interesting even if you are not interested in 3d graphics. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=do1kzR6gVYk > > That could be extended even to blender game engine , so that pharo via blender can be used to make 3d games. So yeah sky is the limit. But for now , just basic sockets to trigger simple python eval commands and gradually build from there and see how far I can go with this idea. > > From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:56 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > for your information jb did a blender importer and you can play with blender 3d objects in Pharo. > > Stef > > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:43 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > > > > > I am a blender developer , using python to make blender addons. My latest complete one is Gyes and Random Material and Texture Generator. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/System/Gyes > > > > Since I was a child I was dreaming of making a system that would use GUIs like the one that I saw in many spaceship movies, fluid futuristic GUIs that could issue way more complex commands than our modern window type GUIs. It was a childs dream, filed as too ambitious and stored there with the rest of too far fetched child dreams. And it was early this year that I was introduced to Smalltalk. I really like python but it was obvious to me that I needed something a lot more. It was that itch I had to scratch. I was very impressed with morphic and squeak and the whole enviroment and of course pharo. I was looking for a live coding enviroment with an ephasis on visual side and I think smalltalk fit like a glove for me. Morphic fit exactly my lego brick logic, I am a very synthetic person I like to keep things minimal and simple and synthesize complex structures out of them. Its a workflow I follow with my entire life not just coding. > > > > So I started a thread in Blenderartists forum ( http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?250375-A-Visual-Programming-… ) about how people saw the possibility of implementing a visual programming enviroment for blender with a very flexible GUI. I thought it would be one of those threads that none really cared and people would say "we have python why bother with a visual coding enviroment at all, python is very easy to learn" or "why should I care about coding at all I am merely a user". And of course I had such reactions but to my surprise the thread just went viral and people seems very excited with the ideas of Ephestos. > > > > So we sat down with another developer using Morphic code from a smalltalk coder , that he made for python and pygame and we tried to port to Blender libraries instead. Code wise it went much better in our side , suprisingly enough both he and found Morphic very easy to understand. But we came across some severe bugs and limitations at blender side that make it evident that if I wanted to keep this in python I had to dirty my hands with some C and diving inside Blender source. > > > > It also became more and more evident that squeak and pharo already implemented many of the ideas I had for Ephestos, and there was no way I could port all the features both offered to python just me and another coder in our free time. So I did the logical thing. Droped the idea of keeping the project pure python and now I have slowly started to porting it to Squeak/Pharo and I am using sockets to communicate with blender. > > > > The goal is of course Visual Coding together with several other ideas I have for RAD. Its not something bound by goals but more an exploration of potential. If the project progress well, I think it will be a win for both blender and squeak/pharo. > > > > At one side Blender developer will be exposed to the true power and flexibility of smalltalk, at the other hand the smalltalk community will have access to such a powerful amazing 3d application as blender. So I think it will be a double win. > > > > My preference towards pharo has to do with Nativeboost , I think that it may play an important role in the future and of course there are libraries like Athens that I would love to explore but ideally I would like to make Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. > > > > In essense squeak and pharo have been an inspiration for Ephestos and the true driving force for making it reality and I can see myself making Ephestos a life project because Its just pure fun for me working on something like that. > > > > > > > > > > From: Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> > > To: "pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2012, 14:43 > > Subject: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > > > Hey there, > > > > I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how exciting this is. > > > > Have something to share? > > > > What's your story with it? > > > > What got you excited? why it worked for you? > > > > sebastian > > > > o/ > > > > pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber > > > > > > > > >

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by dimitris chloupis

personally I found it very depressing when I saw the age of smalltalk. At first it looked me so innovative that I thought it was way more recent than my language of choice at the time python. I even thought that it copied a lot of python. It was a shock to find out its true age. Now I got this feeling that software technology is moving backward . I want my illusion back please :DÂ ________________________________ From: Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 21:56 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? I agree, but OTH my experience is somewhat different. When you teach thisContext and some well chosen examples of what you can do with it, students usually are amazed. Then you challenge them to do the same in other languages, and they have no clue of where to start (you know, Java and C++, maybe some Python). The really great coup de grace is when you tell them that that was invented 40 years ago. And that the Binding example they thought was so cool is from a 1981 magazine article (Peter Deutsch's "Building Control Structures..." from Byte aug.'81). Smalltalk has its merits, and it deserves a place among XXIst century advanced languages. But it also has a history. And a beautiful one, if you ask... Bests, Jordi > + 1 > > > I think that the examples related with stuff invented 30 years ago will > > depend on the audience. > > Most programmers, young ones in particular, have a deep lack of knowledge > > about the history of technology , they barely know about the tools they use > > everyday, and they don't have interest in learning about them either. So > > saying to them that Smalltalk invented BitBlt, is like talking them about > > punched cards. At least that is my experience. >

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by Jordi Delgado

I agree, but OTH my experience is somewhat different. When you teach thisContext and some well chosen examples of what you can do with it, students usually are amazed. Then you challenge them to do the same in other languages, and they have no clue of where to start (you know, Java and C++, maybe some Python). The really great coup de grace is when you tell them that that was invented 40 years ago. And that the Binding example they thought was so cool is from a 1981 magazine article (Peter Deutsch's "Building Control Structures..." from Byte aug.'81). Smalltalk has its merits, and it deserves a place among XXIst century advanced languages. But it also has a history. And a beautiful one, if you ask... Bests, Jordi > + 1 > > > I think that the examples related with stuff invented 30 years ago will > > depend on the audience. > > Most programmers, young ones in particular, have a deep lack of knowledge > > about the history of technology , they barely know about the tools they use > > everyday, and they don't have interest in learning about them either. So > > saying to them that Smalltalk invented BitBlt, is like talking them about > > punched cards. At least that is my experience. >

Oct. 18, 2012

[Pharo-project] Fw: what is your pharo story?

by dimitris chloupis

Hey Stef You mean this ? -> http://forum.world.st/WaveFront-File-importer-on-Pharo-td4640327.html Well not exactly a blender importer , but yes it could be used to import blender models. By the way , my goal is not to bring models of blender to pharo , but more to use pharo to "script" blender, as python is used now to make addons for blender. So I try to replace python with pharo. Of course visual coding is much more than that, but this is none the less my first step. I try to achieve this with triggering python command via sockets from pharo to blender. Ideally I could generate st methods and classes for all blender python methods and classes. But that is for much later. Still it could be handy to display 3d blender data in pharo. My vision is that both blender and pharo window will be displayed one next to the other, with the user using the pharo window doing visual coding or procedural generation of 3d objects , materials, textures , particles etc and seeing the final result in blender window. If you are familiar with Softimage ICE this is more or less the field of application for "Ephestos". But still could be handy to do some displaying in pharo as well so that the blender window could be minimised.Â This is a video with Softimage ICE. Quite interesting even if you are not interested in 3d graphics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=do1kzR6gVYk That could be extended even to blender game engine , so that pharo via blender can be used to make 3d games. So yeah sky is the limit. But for now , just basic sockets to trigger simple python eval commands and gradually build from there and see how far I can go with this idea. ________________________________ From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:56 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? for your information jb did a blender importer and you can play with blender 3d objects in Pharo. Stef On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:43 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > > I am a blender developer , using python to make blender addons. My latest complete one is Gyes and Random Material and Texture Generator. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/System/Gyes > > Since I was a child I was dreaming of making a system that would use GUIs like the one that I saw in many spaceship movies, fluid futuristic GUIs that could issue way more complex commands than our modern window type GUIs. It was a childs dream, filed as too ambitious and stored there with the rest of too far fetched child dreams. And it was early this year that I was introduced to Smalltalk. I really like python but it was obvious to me that I needed something a lot more. It was that itch I had to scratch. I was very impressed with morphic and squeak and the whole enviroment and of course pharo. I was looking for a live coding enviroment with an ephasis on visual side and I think smalltalk fit like a glove for me. Morphic fit exactly my lego brick logic, I am a very synthetic person I like to keep things minimal and simple and synthesize complex structures out of them. Its a workflow I follow with my entire life not just coding. > > So I started a thread in Blenderartists forum ( http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?250375-A-Visual-Programming-… ) about how people saw the possibility of implementing a visual programming enviroment for blender with a very flexible GUI. I thought it would be one of those threads that none really cared and people would say "we have python why bother with a visual coding enviroment at all, python is very easy to learn" or "why should I care about coding at all I am merely a user".Â And of course I had such reactions but to my surprise the thread just went viral and people seems very excited with the ideas of Ephestos. > > So we sat down with another developer using Morphic code from a smalltalk coder , that he made for python and pygame and we tried to port to Blender libraries instead. Code wise it went much better in our side , suprisingly enough both he and found Morphic very easy to understand. But we came across some severe bugs and limitations at blender side that make it evident that if I wanted to keep this in python I had to dirty my hands with some C and diving inside Blender source. > > It also became more and more evident that squeak and pharo already implemented many of the ideas I had for Ephestos, and there was no way I could port all the features both offered to python just me and another coder in our free time. So I did the logical thing. Droped the idea of keeping the project pure python and now I have slowly started to porting it to Squeak/Pharo and I am using sockets to communicate with blender. > > The goal is of course Visual Coding together with several other ideas I have for RAD. Its not something bound by goals but more an exploration of potential. If the project progress well, I think it will be a win for both blender and squeak/pharo. > > At one side Blender developer will be exposed to the true power and flexibility of smalltalk, at the other hand the smalltalk community will have access to such a powerful amazing 3d application as blender. So I think it will be a double win. > > My preference towards pharo has to do with Nativeboost , I think that it may play an important role in the future and of course there are libraries like Athens that I would love to explore but ideally I would like to make Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. > > In essense squeak and pharo have been an inspiration for Ephestos and the true driving force for making it reality and I can see myself making Ephestos a life project because Its just pure fun for me working on something like that. > > > > > From: Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> > To: "pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2012, 14:43 > Subject: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > Hey there, > > I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how exciting this is. > > Have something to share? > > What's your story with it? > > What got you excited? why it worked for you? > > sebastian > > o/ > > pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber > >

Oct. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo

by dimitris chloupis

wow that simple! thank you very much Igor ! Besides sockets , is there any other way to make pharo communicate with another language like python ? I am worried that sockets may introduce some significant lag to my communication, are my fears correct ? Generally speaking a response time of few milliseconds should be fine. ________________________________ From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:46 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo On 18 October 2012 18:33, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > > From: dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > To: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:31 > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo > > good question. I dont , that is why I asked for alternatives . How you guys > make pharo communicate with other languages ? > > Yes I can send bare strings . I wonder however what is the fastest way to do > so. > stream := SocketStream openConnectionToHost: hostIP port: portNumber. stream nextPutAll: 'here comes the command'. stream close. > > ________________________________ > From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis > <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 18:22 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] XMLRPC , sockets , python and pharo > > On 18 October 2012 16:41, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> Hi there I need a way to make pharo communicate with blender python. I >> have >> been successful making external cpython and pypy talk to blender cpython >> via >> XMLRPC. Now I want my pharo project "Ephestos" to control blender python >> by >> sending python command that then a blender addon which is written in >> python >> will execute. >> >> Is there such a XMLRPC library for pharo, and how do I use it. And also >> what >> are the alternatives ? > > why you need xml for that? > > can't you just send bare strings, which then be simply eval'ed on other > side? > >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 17:35 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] new command line api to build images >> >> Very cool! >> >> Doru >> >> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> We're almost there, create your images from the command-line with a >> very limited number of bash lines ;) >> >> >> #==================================================================================== >> VM=`pharo-shell-scripts/fetchLatestVM.sh` >> unzip -ou Pharo-2.0.zip -d . && cd Pharo-2.0 >> >> $VM -headless Pharo-2.0.image config http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/ci >> ConfigurationOfCI --install >> $VM -headless Pharo-2.0.image save CI --delete-old >> >> zip -r CI.zip CI.changes CI.image *.sources >> >> #==================================================================================== >> >> there you go, a new image named CI with the given configuration installed. >> >> We still have to extend the API a little bit to support loading specific >> groups >> from a Metacello config + accessing repositories by username and password. >> >> >> best >> cami >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 18, 2012