March 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Class comments are in the .sources ?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2010/3/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi folks. I was playing a bit with the ClassOrganizer stuff. I thought > that > > class comments were in the image, but it seems they are kept in the > > .source. Is this correct ? > > > > They are ALWAYS kept in the .sources? > > > > I know that the class of the instancia variable "classComment" in the > > ClassOrganizer can be Text, ByteString or even RemoteString. I though > that > > only those who have RemoteString were in .sources but it seems all are > > there. I am correct ? is this the desired behavior ? > > > > Yes you are. > The state of these things are bunch of hacks, added over a years and > really, really messy. > OK...thanks for the warning. > I presented some ideas about it in the past, but since it requires a > substantial efforts to make it done, > they weren't get past much the state of an ideas. :) > > I would like to hear those ideas. What I want to do right now, is to be able to remove a lot of memory consumption that maybe they are not used under certain circumstances like embedded devices. For example, I would like to remove all the method categories or put a blank space. Or to remove the class comments (I though they were in the image). In summary, for those applications that can live with that, I would like to remove unnecessary data from ClassOrganization so that to low memory footprint. What do you think? Cheers Mariano > > Thanks! > > > > Mariano > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Class comments are in the .sources ?

by Igor Stasenko

2010/3/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > Hi folks. I was playing a bit with the ClassOrganizer stuff. I thought that > class comments were in the image, but it seems they are kept in the > .source.Â Is this correct ? > > They are ALWAYS kept in the .sources? > > I know that the class of the instancia variable "classComment" in the > ClassOrganizer can be Text, ByteString or even RemoteString. I though that > only those who have RemoteString were in .sourcesÂ but it seems all are > there. I am correct ? is this the desired behavior ? > Yes you are. The state of these things are bunch of hacks, added over a years and really, really messy. I presented some ideas about it in the past, but since it requires a substantial efforts to make it done, they weren't get past much the state of an ideas. :) > Thanks! > > Mariano > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 11, 2010

[Pharo-project] Class comments are in the .sources ?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi folks. I was playing a bit with the ClassOrganizer stuff. I thought that class comments were in the image, but it seems they are kept in the .source. Is this correct ? They are ALWAYS kept in the .sources? I know that the class of the instancia variable "classComment" in the ClassOrganizer can be Text, ByteString or even RemoteString. I though that only those who have RemoteString were in .sources but it seems all are there. I am correct ? is this the desired behavior ? Thanks! Mariano

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] How I build squeak-vm with FT2Plugin on Linux

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Both really interesting posts. Now...Some people reported that the Exupery Linux VM has "nicer" fonts than the standard VM, even if both use true type. Then Bryce Kampjes said in the mailing list: "If it's font related then the Exupery VMs also have a patched bitlbt for subpixel antialiasing. The true type code uses that to make fonts look a bit nicer." Do you know how that can be included ? Cheers Mariano 2010/3/11 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > Great ! > > Can we merge our respective posts and put this on the Pharo wiki ? > > I don't have write access to the wiki. > > Do you know if there's an equivalent tutorial for windows ? > > I will try with the svn trunk. > > Laurent Laffont > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > >> Hi Laurent, >> >> Nice! I just did the same the other day ;) >> >> My blog post describes step by step how to build a Unix VM from scratch on >> OSX: >> >> >> http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/blog?article=building-a-pharo-squeak-vm-from-… >> >> Please note that you are using the 3.11.3.*2135* sources, which produce a >> VM with terrible performance. The reason is that they don't have the >> gnuification step that creates a jump table instead of the case switch for >> the interpreter loop. I use the most recent source from SVN (r2151) and the >> bytecodes/s is 479400749 compared to 248543689. >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> >> >> On Mar 10, 2010, at 23:24 , laurent laffont wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > As a memento for me, I've written a tutorial to build the VM on Linux. >> > >> http://magaloma.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-i-build-squeak-vm-on-archlinux.html >> > >> > I also provide the binaries and Pharo image with VMMaker loaded. >> > >> > As I'm newbie on building a VM, thanks for additional informations. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Laurent Laffont >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Collection >> collectDistinct: ??

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/3/11 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > >> >> So try it with randomized data: >> >> a := (1 to: 1000000) asArray shuffled. >> >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ a collect: #yourself as: Set ] timeToRun. "==> 4143" >> >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ a asSet ] timeToRun. "==> 3995". >> >> | s | >> s := Set new. >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ s addAll: a ] timeToRun. "==> 157304 oops weak hashes". >> >> | s | >> s := Set new: 1000000. >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ s addAll: a ] timeToRun. "==> 636". >> >> >> With better hashes: > > levente how do you determine that you use better hashes below > SmallInteger are their own hash. Code below produces random hashes with uniform density. > >> a := Set new: 1000000. >> [ a size < 1000000 ] whileTrue: [ >> Â Â Â a add: SmallInteger maxVal atRandom ]. >> a := a asArray. >> >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ a collect: #yourself as: Set ] timeToRun. "==> Â 3895" >> >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ a asSet ] timeToRun. "==> Â 3777". >> >> | s | >> s := Set new. >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ s addAll: a ] timeToRun. "==> 4729 much better". >> >> | s | >> s := Set new: 1000000. >> Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> [ s addAll: a ] timeToRun. "==> 774". >> >> >> Conclusions: >> - #collect:as: is (almost) as fast as #asSet >> - better hashes can make a huge difference >> - message sends cost a lot compared to bytecodes >> - if you can guess the size of your collection, do it (applies for all growing collections and collection streaming) > yes!! >> - only optimize if you have to in your own code >> >> >> Levente >> >>> -- >>> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 >>> <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> >>> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. >>> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 11, 2010

[Pharo-project] How I build squeak-vm with FT2Plugin on Linux

by Torsten Bergmann

Hey - you can now print yourself a certificate! See [1] >Can we merge our respective posts and put this on the Pharo wiki ? Why, I would put it on squeakvm.org if the documentation there is not up to date. Just ask David T. Lewis or post to the vm-dev list so your blog posts can be linked/included. >Do you know if there's an equivalent tutorial for windows ? Yes, again see http://www.squeakvm.org/win32/ >I will try with the svn trunk. On windows there are two ways: 1. Using SVN trunk, the squeakvm.org description and the vmmaker metacello config. 2. easily grab the zipped sources of the latest release without regenerating using VMMaker. (Andreas released version 3.11.8 yesterday, see [2]). First is more fun, second is easier. Note that you always get a Squeak VM. If you want to build a Pharo VM you have to additionally exchange ressources (icons, version info) to get the same results as the one I prepared for the pharo download page. BTW: I will build a new Pharo win VM based on 3.11.8 this week and will upload it to gforge similar to 2. Bye T. [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/uploads/2444/SqueakVMBuilderCertificate.pdf [2] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-March/146349.ht… -- GMX DSL: Internet, Telefon und Entertainment fÃ¼r nur 19,99 EUR/mtl.! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

March 11, 2010

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: VM crash on Windows

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> ok so excellent then. > I though that having a max counter to get let us say 1000 last crash could help. > I do not know what is the situation of dabblebd like setup. > > Stef > > On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Andreas Raab wrote: > >> On 3/10/2010 11:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> did you not notice problem with the size of the log file with the appening behavior? >>> Because I started to have a huge file where all the crashes reports were added one by one and I was wondering if >>> on a server this may not be a problem (probably having a limit for the size of the report could be a good idea - but I do not know). >> >> One a production server? Do the math: 1GB of disk space costs cents. One hour of two of your engineers trying to recreate the problem or recover the information costs a few hundred bucks. That's a ratio of 10000:1. >> >> On our main server the size of the logs is 500MB going back six months or so when we reimaged it last. That's 0.1% of the disk space on the box. The other day we bought a few more TBs of cheap scratch storage which we use for throwaway VMs in QA (vmware VMs, not Squeak so it's 20+GB each). >> >> On a production server it makes no sense whatsoever to limit logging unless you're logging *excessively*. In an emergency the logs are all you have to find out what is going wrong, it's worth keeping them. >> >> Cheers, >> - Andreas >> >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Mar 10, 2010, at 2:12 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>>> Andreas, >>>> >>>> I will give that a try. I think it should be active by default, but it won't matter too much once I modify the shortcuts on a few boxes. Other wish list items would be to have a similar option on Linux and to ensure that the contents of the log are concatenated vs. replaced with each crash. >>>> >>>> Thanks!! >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Andreas Raab >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:32 AM >>>> To: Pharo Development >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] VM crash on Windows >>>> >>>> Hi Bill - >>>> >>>> If you have problems like these consider cross-posting to squeak-dev or vm-dev. I only check Pharo in irregular intervals. >>>> >>>> On 3/8/2010 4:27 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>>>> I am having a sudden problem with Pharo crashing on Windows - it's quitting on handling Seaside requests, and I'm getting **no** information. The VM pops up the output console, writes a lot of (probably useful) information to it, and then promptly exits. >>>> >>>> The issue you're seeing is caused by a recursive MessageNotUnderstood error. You can easily recreate this by doing the following: >>>> >>>> ((ProtoObject subclass: #Bummerator >>>> instanceVariableNames: '' >>>> classVariableNames: '' >>>> poolDictionaries: '' >>>> category: 'Kernel-Objects') >>>> superclass: nil; >>>> new) bummer. >>>> >>>> The reason why that doesn't result in a regular crash.dmp is that the support code (which catches the crashes and writes the dump) isn't involved at all. The interpreter just quits. >>>> >>>> Contrast this with, say the result of an FFI crash: >>>> >>>> (ExternalLibraryFunction >>>> name:'' module: '' callType: 0 >>>> returnType: ExternalType void argumentTypes: #()) >>>> setHandle: ((ExternalAddress new) at: 1 put: 1; yourself); >>>> invoke >>>> >>>> This does generate a crash.dmp since the support code can catch the problem. >>>> >>>> However, to catch the former issue you can run the vm with -log: >>>> <logfile> which will contain the resulting output. >>>> >>>>> The rebuttal: if it has time/ability to write information all over part of the screen, it can open a file and make sure it leaves a trace of what happened. Right? The current vms (Windows and Linux) appear to be totally disinterested in logging crashes, and that needs to change. >>>> >>>> They do if you tell 'em to. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> - Andreas >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> > > > >

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Code bubbles

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

oh yes! Stef On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 11 March 2010 09:43, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> The kind of stuff I would have love to see people experimenting with Squeak. >> We failed to be sexy on the UI level. >> > > Amazing stuff!Have no idea how it fits with java, but for smalltalk it > would be really cool! :) > >> Stef >> >>> >>> >>> Ideas for IDE UIs >>> http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/acb/codebubbles_site.htm >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Pollet >>> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsehub-staff mailing list >>> Lsehub-staff(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lsehub-staff >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Code bubbles

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I really want to experiment with something new and coooooooool having a zoom out and ultra space desktop on my 30 inches screen should be cool Stef On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Michele Lanza wrote: > Wait until Gaucho rides in ;-) > > Cheers > > Michele > > On 2010-03-11, at 8:43 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> The kind of stuff I would have love to see people experimenting with Squeak. >> We failed to be sexy on the UI level. >> >> Stef >> >>> >>> >>> Ideas for IDE UIs >>> http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/acb/codebubbles_site.htm >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Pollet >>> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsehub-staff mailing list >>> Lsehub-staff(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lsehub-staff >> >

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Code bubbles

by Igor Stasenko

On 11 March 2010 09:43, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > The kind of stuff I would have love to see people experimenting with Squeak. > We failed to be sexy on the UI level. > Amazing stuff!Have no idea how it fits with java, but for smalltalk it would be really cool! :) > Stef > >> >> >> Ideas for IDE UIs >> http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/acb/codebubbles_site.htm >> >> -- >> Damien Pollet >> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsehub-staff mailing list >> Lsehub-staff(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lsehub-staff > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 11, 2010