January 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] What's the best/most complete Class Browser?

by Linus De Meyere

Thanks guys, this really helps. 2010/1/3 Stan Shepherd <stan.shepherd414(a)gmail.com> > > > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > Hi Linus. I like you name. I hope you know which is the best/most > complete > > OS ;) > For sure I know that :-) It has really amazed me how portable the Smalltalk environments are. > > > > You asked a really complicated question. I will give you just my opinion: > > > > OB advantages: > > - It is most of the time quite stable > > - It has good integration with refactoring tools (because the developer > is > > the same -> Lukas) > > - It is fast enough. > > > > OB disadvantages: > > - You don't have package support. > > > > O2 advantages: > > - It is nicer that OB > > - Package support > > - Cool little tools like running the test clicking in the circul and > > having > > the circul with black, green or other colors depending the running, etc. > > > > O2 disadvantages: > > - It overrides and depends of OB stuff (we hope this will be fixed) > > - Sometimes I found it quite unstable. More likely the Refactoring > > integration > > - Quite slow. This is due to the fact how packages are managed (I think) > > and > > Stef is trying to build a replace for this :) > > > > > > In summary, I like more the O2 and I would like to use that, but for the > > things I told you as disadvantages and finished using OB. > > > > Cheers > > > > Mariano > > > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Alexandre Bergel > > <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > > > >> This is a matter that we haven't reached a consensus yet. Some people > >> prefer the O2 Package Browser. This browser gives you a pretty good > >> feeling of a package structured image with folding/unfolding and > >> hierarchical views. Some may find this browser slow however. > >> > >> The remaining of pharo users favor snappiness, and prefer > >> OBSystemBrowserAdaptor. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Alexandre > >> > >> > >> On 3 Jan 2010, at 13:49, Linus De Meyere wrote: > >> > >> > Hey, > >> > > >> > Is there any overview of the class browsers available in Pharo? It > >> > seems there are a few, and I'm not quite sure which one is the most > >> > complete these days. Moreover, some of the functionality I find in > >> > one browser (alphabetize) is missing in another. > >> > > >> > Maybe it's just a matter of taste, but since I'm not yet very > >> > familiar with the Pharo environment, I thougt I'd better ask around. > >> > > >> > Greetz, > >> > > >> > Linus > >> > > > > Hi Linus, I have had exactly the same experience as Mariano. I would really > recommend Lint/Code critics and Refactoring browser to help learn Pharo > ways- a bit like having your own pair programming partner at all times. For > now , that seems to mean OB. > I like the metaphor of using these tools as if they are your pairs :-) > > To get an image with these all working together, look at: > http://www.seaside.st/distributions/Seaside-3.0a5.app.zip > http://www.seaside.st/distributions/Seaside-3.0a5.app.zip > (note this is not an official release, but it is very stable). > > To make the ctl-c, ctl-v keys work (at least on Linux), you need to run > InputEventSensor duplicateControlAndAltKeys: true > > And if you want it to look like the books/tutorials, change the theme to > Watery 2 from the preference browser. > As for now I stick with the Standard Squeak Theme. The colors of the windows really help organizing the workspace. Thanks for the tip anyway! > > Hopefully the browsers will soon be reconciled with each other. > > ...Stan > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/What-s-the-best-most-complete-Class-Browser-tp4245829p… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > Greetz, Linus

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What's the best/most complete Class Browser?

by Stan Shepherd

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > Hi Linus. I like you name. I hope you know which is the best/most complete > OS ;) > > You asked a really complicated question. I will give you just my opinion: > > OB advantages: > - It is most of the time quite stable > - It has good integration with refactoring tools (because the developer is > the same -> Lukas) > - It is fast enough. > > OB disadvantages: > - You don't have package support. > > O2 advantages: > - It is nicer that OB > - Package support > - Cool little tools like running the test clicking in the circul and > having > the circul with black, green or other colors depending the running, etc. > > O2 disadvantages: > - It overrides and depends of OB stuff (we hope this will be fixed) > - Sometimes I found it quite unstable. More likely the Refactoring > integration > - Quite slow. This is due to the fact how packages are managed (I think) > and > Stef is trying to build a replace for this :) > > > In summary, I like more the O2 and I would like to use that, but for the > things I told you as disadvantages and finished using OB. > > Cheers > > Mariano > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > >> This is a matter that we haven't reached a consensus yet. Some people >> prefer the O2 Package Browser. This browser gives you a pretty good >> feeling of a package structured image with folding/unfolding and >> hierarchical views. Some may find this browser slow however. >> >> The remaining of pharo users favor snappiness, and prefer >> OBSystemBrowserAdaptor. >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 3 Jan 2010, at 13:49, Linus De Meyere wrote: >> >> > Hey, >> > >> > Is there any overview of the class browsers available in Pharo? It >> > seems there are a few, and I'm not quite sure which one is the most >> > complete these days. Moreover, some of the functionality I find in >> > one browser (alphabetize) is missing in another. >> > >> > Maybe it's just a matter of taste, but since I'm not yet very >> > familiar with the Pharo environment, I thougt I'd better ask around. >> > >> > Greetz, >> > >> > Linus >> > Hi Linus, I have had exactly the same experience as Mariano. I would really recommend Lint/Code critics and Refactoring browser to help learn Pharo ways- a bit like having your own pair programming partner at all times. For now , that seems to mean OB. To get an image with these all working together, look at: http://www.seaside.st/distributions/Seaside-3.0a5.app.zip http://www.seaside.st/distributions/Seaside-3.0a5.app.zip (note this is not an official release, but it is very stable). To make the ctl-c, ctl-v keys work (at least on Linux), you need to run InputEventSensor duplicateControlAndAltKeys: true And if you want it to look like the books/tutorials, change the theme to Watery 2 from the preference browser. Hopefully the browsers will soon be reconciled with each other. ...Stan -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/What-s-the-best-most-complete-Class-Browser-tp4245829p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Code Critics pragmas for classes - do they need to be on instance *and* class side?

by Stan Shepherd

Lukas Renggli wrote: > >> Yes, that's how it is implemented ;-) > > I mean, if it is added to the class-side it affects the class-side, > and if it is added to the instance-side it affects the instance-side. > We can change it that it affects both sides, if this is what everybody > wants? > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > I was specifically thinking of "class not referenced", which seems strange to have to put on both sides. But I suppose there could be other class checks for which there could be utility in treating class and instance separately; I haven't come across a case so far. ...Stan -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Code-Critics-pragmas-for-classes-do-they-need-to-be-on… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: ChangeSorter vs. ChangeOrganizer as entry point

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > hahahahhahah if you remove for example the ChangeSorter you break that haha. > I am totally agree stef. > > I searched references for ChangeSorter and it is everywhere :( We should check because I remember Pavel did a migration once.

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Does someone know why Nile is in Dev images?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jan 3, 2010, at 1:03 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Sorry Stef but I disagree. PLEASE don't misunderstand me. I know a lot of very good people have worked and is still working in Nile project. So, I am sure it is an excellent product. > > However, I don't think it should be in Dev image. Dev image is for "Developers". So, we put tools like NewInspector, RoelTyper, E and OCompletion, Refactoring, etc. But why Nile ? But mariano Nile is an alternate library it is beta. If people have to load it then better throw it away right now. > I am not agree this is neither a way to push Nile to be used. It is no difference if you already have the code in the image or not, it is just one click of difference (as you have the Nile-All). No there is a big difference. People do not know that they should look for it. > Even if it where the case, I think it should be in Core image. The way to push a project to be used is to write documentation, tutorials, show the benefits over other implementations....and so on. > > If Moose use it, ok, put it as a dependency. Now you have a Metacello configuration for Moose :) > I mean, in SqueakDBX we use FFI and we don't put in the image. Seaside uses Slime and it is not in the image. We should put FFI in the image too. Because this are infrastructural elements. When the newCompiler will be beta it should be in. It should not take 5 min to load something to try it. > > Just my opinion. I hope no one feels offended. > > What others think about this ? > > Cheers > > Mariano > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 11:02 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Nile is in dev because it should be progressively use to replace existing streams. > For example in Moose some important collection extensions depend on it. > > > > Does another package of the dev image depends on Nile? If not, I don't understand why it is part of the dev image. I see it as any other external package but not a "dev tool" that should be included. > > > > Thanks > > > > Mariano > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What's the best/most complete Class Browser?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Linus. I like you name. I hope you know which is the best/most complete OS ;) You asked a really complicated question. I will give you just my opinion: OB advantages: - It is most of the time quite stable - It has good integration with refactoring tools (because the developer is the same -> Lukas) - It is fast enough. OB disadvantages: - You don't have package support. O2 advantages: - It is nicer that OB - Package support - Cool little tools like running the test clicking in the circul and having the circul with black, green or other colors depending the running, etc. O2 disadvantages: - It overrides and depends of OB stuff (we hope this will be fixed) - Sometimes I found it quite unstable. More likely the Refactoring integration - Quite slow. This is due to the fact how packages are managed (I think) and Stef is trying to build a replace for this :) In summary, I like more the O2 and I would like to use that, but for the things I told you as disadvantages and finished using OB. Cheers Mariano On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > This is a matter that we haven't reached a consensus yet. Some people > prefer the O2 Package Browser. This browser gives you a pretty good > feeling of a package structured image with folding/unfolding and > hierarchical views. Some may find this browser slow however. > > The remaining of pharo users favor snappiness, and prefer > OBSystemBrowserAdaptor. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 3 Jan 2010, at 13:49, Linus De Meyere wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > Is there any overview of the class browsers available in Pharo? It > > seems there are a few, and I'm not quite sure which one is the most > > complete these days. Moreover, some of the functionality I find in > > one browser (alphabetize) is missing in another. > > > > Maybe it's just a matter of taste, but since I'm not yet very > > familiar with the Pharo environment, I thougt I'd better ask around. > > > > Greetz, > > > > Linus > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] What's the best/most complete Class Browser?

by Alexandre Bergel

This is a matter that we haven't reached a consensus yet. Some people prefer the O2 Package Browser. This browser gives you a pretty good feeling of a package structured image with folding/unfolding and hierarchical views. Some may find this browser slow however. The remaining of pharo users favor snappiness, and prefer OBSystemBrowserAdaptor. Cheers, Alexandre On 3 Jan 2010, at 13:49, Linus De Meyere wrote: > Hey, > > Is there any overview of the class browsers available in Pharo? It > seems there are a few, and I'm not quite sure which one is the most > complete these days. Moreover, some of the functionality I find in > one browser (alphabetize) is missing in another. > > Maybe it's just a matter of taste, but since I'm not yet very > familiar with the Pharo environment, I thougt I'd better ask around. > > Greetz, > > Linus > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Mac VM 5.2b1 ships

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi John! I have just download the vm and played for a while. I have a good news and a bad one. The good news is that the bug of the double copy past seems to be gone away. Maybe because what you said about "lack mac menu integration". I should check because if then, when you do that, I have the double paste bug again, at least we know where it comes from :) The bad news is that FFI is not working, but it is ok as you said the only plugin you compile was FreeType and it seems to be working for me :) For the moments I don't need other plugin than FreeType I will use this VM and will report anything I found. Thanks Mariano On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John > > > As a reminder I do need more people to use it as their development > platform so we can work out any bugs. > > It would make testing much easier if you provided a direct download > link. It usually takes me a couple of minutes to find the right file, > which is not ideal if you would like to get as much feedback as > possible. Also the slash in the package name makes things more > difficult than necessary. For my comments below I am referring to > "experimental/64bit/32bitImage*64bitVM/Squeak 64\/32 5.2b1.app", which > seems to have a timestamp from today. > > - Running the Seaside 3.0 tests reproducibly results in the attached > crash of the VM (seaside-crash.txt). > > - Running the Seaside 2.8, Pier, Magritte, Refactoring and OB tests > work fine. I also worked a bit with the VM and couldn't observe other > problems. The clipboard works well. > > Cheers, > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > >

Jan. 3, 2010

[Pharo-project] What's the best/most complete Class Browser?

by Linus De Meyere

Hey, Is there any overview of the class browsers available in Pharo? It seems there are a few, and I'm not quite sure which one is the most complete these days. Moreover, some of the functionality I find in one browser (alphabetize) is missing in another. Maybe it's just a matter of taste, but since I'm not yet very familiar with the Pharo environment, I thougt I'd better ask around. Greetz, Linus

Jan. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: ChangeSorter vs. ChangeOrganizer as entry point

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2010/1/3 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > > > Hi guys > > may be one of you can confirm but I have the impression that the code > should use ChangesOrganizer instead of ChangeSorter for example in > fileIntoNewChangeSet. > I do not see why we should rely on tools and instead of model? > > hahahahahah FileStream >> fileIntoNewChangeSet "File all of my contents into a new change set." self readOnly. ChangeSorter newChangesFromStream: self named: (self localName) hahahahhahah if you remove for example the ChangeSorter you break that haha. I am totally agree stef. I searched references for ChangeSorter and it is everywhere :( Mariano Stef > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 3, 2010