June 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Marcus Denker

On 20.06.2009, at 10:52, Cameron Sanders wrote: > They could probably all learn from the other flavors. In fact, the > cross-smalltalk portability is a negative for smalltalk. > > I believe I tried smalltalk/X... that's the natively-compiled one, > right? So it feels like C++ if you change a root class -- or am I > confusing it with another? I'm on a new platform and can't check what > all I installed last year, at the moment. > > I like the idea of a compiled version!! And there would be a place for > it in my world, *if* I could take code from Pharo and load it into > say, Smalltalk/X, and have it work without a month-long debugging > session. One huge problem with compatibility is always that it reduces any possibility in evolving/improving the system. If the goal is to be compatible to e.g. all of Smalltalk X, Visualworks, Squeak, Gemstone.... than, in the end, this means we can not do anything anymore, and, most importantly: we can not do any *fun* things anymore. Beeing compatible means reducing what you do to the subset of all the dialects, and than stop doing anything. If I you should choose between a) "inventing the future" and b) "be compatible to VisualWorks", what would you take? And I personally have already choosen for the "inventing the future" route, I guess. It makes no sense to be in Research (and beeing payed those wonderful tiny salaries) and than do boring stuff. That makes no sense. I personally think that the possibility and duty of working on interesting things is part of the overall compensation package of people in Research. Marcus -- Marcus Denker - http://marcusdenker.de PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Rob Rothwell

Also just wondering what anyone thought of the concept of Maui in the context of this discussion! http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3836 Rob 2009/6/20 Steve Wirts <stevewirts(a)gmail.com> > I did a talk(attached) at OOPSLA several years ago to explain the benefits > of ValueModels to java programmers, it was way over their heads. > It's unfortunate as today I've yet to see anything in java that approaches > the productivity they provide. > > > > 2009/6/20 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > > Steve, >> >> Interesting that you mention value models. I just ran into a use for a >> ValueHolder, and discovered that Dolphin's #value, #value: protocol was not >> present. In fact ValueHolder>>value answers the receiver! I added an >> override to my Dolphin compatibility package. I exepect to add >> AspectValueAdapter and perhaps some converters as need arises. >> >> None of this takes away from Magritte; I share your interest in it and >> willingness to consider it as potentially powerful tool for GUI building. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: >> pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] *On Behalf Of *Steve Wirts >> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2009 8:01 PM >> *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S >> >> Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super powerful idea >> here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost in OO guis. >> VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due to >> them being undervalued. >> I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into pharo >> given my time constraints and interest from potential users. >> >> see >> http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html >> >> Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to VisualWorks >> ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really know yet. >> Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> > >>> > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I >>> > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders >>> > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student >>> > level pay I must add.) >>> > >>> > I too want a GUI builder. >>> >>> >>> me too :) >>> So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. >>> Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time for >>> extensions but we would support any work in the direction of >>> UIBuilder >>> TestServer >>> Package.... >>> FileWrite-Rio kind of integration >>> Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) >>> Better SUnit >>> Better tools (for example like the newInspector) >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Cameron Sanders

They could probably all learn from the other flavors. In fact, the cross-smalltalk portability is a negative for smalltalk. I believe I tried smalltalk/X... that's the natively-compiled one, right? So it feels like C++ if you change a root class -- or am I confusing it with another? I'm on a new platform and can't check what all I installed last year, at the moment. I like the idea of a compiled version!! And there would be a place for it in my world, *if* I could take code from Pharo and load it into say, Smalltalk/X, and have it work without a month-long debugging session. -Cam On Jun 20, 2009, at 1:01 AM, Rudi Engelbrecht wrote: > Have you looked at Smalltalk/X?

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Rob Rothwell

Just wondering if something similar can be done with Announcements? I think the Omnibrowser folks recently started wiring everything together using Announcments...? Not sure...just interested! Take care, Rob 2009/6/20 Steve Wirts <stevewirts(a)gmail.com> > I did a talk(attached) at OOPSLA several years ago to explain the benefits > of ValueModels to java programmers, it was way over their heads. > It's unfortunate as today I've yet to see anything in java that approaches > the productivity they provide. > > > > 2009/6/20 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > > Steve, >> >> Interesting that you mention value models. I just ran into a use for a >> ValueHolder, and discovered that Dolphin's #value, #value: protocol was not >> present. In fact ValueHolder>>value answers the receiver! I added an >> override to my Dolphin compatibility package. I exepect to add >> AspectValueAdapter and perhaps some converters as need arises. >> >> None of this takes away from Magritte; I share your interest in it and >> willingness to consider it as potentially powerful tool for GUI building. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: >> pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] *On Behalf Of *Steve Wirts >> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2009 8:01 PM >> *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S >> >> Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super powerful idea >> here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost in OO guis. >> VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due to >> them being undervalued. >> I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into pharo >> given my time constraints and interest from potential users. >> >> see >> http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html >> >> Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to VisualWorks >> ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really know yet. >> Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> > >>> > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I >>> > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders >>> > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student >>> > level pay I must add.) >>> > >>> > I too want a GUI builder. >>> >>> >>> me too :) >>> So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. >>> Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time for >>> extensions but we would support any work in the direction of >>> UIBuilder >>> TestServer >>> Package.... >>> FileWrite-Rio kind of integration >>> Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) >>> Better SUnit >>> Better tools (for example like the newInspector) >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Steve Wirts

I did a talk(attached) at OOPSLA several years ago to explain the benefits of ValueModels to java programmers, it was way over their heads. It's unfortunate as today I've yet to see anything in java that approaches the productivity they provide. 2009/6/20 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > Steve, > > Interesting that you mention value models. I just ran into a use for a > ValueHolder, and discovered that Dolphin's #value, #value: protocol was not > present. In fact ValueHolder>>value answers the receiver! I added an > override to my Dolphin compatibility package. I exepect to add > AspectValueAdapter and perhaps some converters as need arises. > > None of this takes away from Magritte; I share your interest in it and > willingness to consider it as potentially powerful tool for GUI building. > > Bill > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] *On Behalf Of *Steve Wirts > *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2009 8:01 PM > *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S > > Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super powerful idea > here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost in OO guis. > VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due to them > being undervalued. > I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into pharo > given my time constraints and interest from potential users. > > see > http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html > > Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to VisualWorks > ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really know yet. > Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! > > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> > >> > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I >> > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders >> > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student >> > level pay I must add.) >> > >> > I too want a GUI builder. >> >> >> me too :) >> So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. >> Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time for >> extensions but we would support any work in the direction of >> UIBuilder >> TestServer >> Package.... >> FileWrite-Rio kind of integration >> Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) >> Better SUnit >> Better tools (for example like the newInspector) >> >> Stef >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

our goal is to make sure that you will have a nice clean system to build such cool libraries. Stef On Jun 20, 2009, at 3:01 AM, Steve Wirts wrote: > Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super > powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost > in OO guis. > VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due > to them being undervalued. > I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into > pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. > > see > http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html > > Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to > VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really > know yet. > Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! > > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > > > > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I > > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak > coders > > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student > > level pay I must add.) > > > > I too want a GUI builder. > > > me too :) > So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. > Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time > for > extensions but we would support any work in the direction of > UIBuilder > TestServer > Package.... > FileWrite-Rio kind of integration > Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) > Better SUnit > Better tools (for example like the newInspector) > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Rudi Engelbrecht

Hi Have you looked at Smalltalk/X? Includes GUI builders, super fast and has ValueModels. Maybe Pharo can learn a bit from ST/X? See http://www.exept.de/en/products/smalltalk-x/stx-overview Regards Rudi On 20 Jun 2009, at 6:17 AM, Cameron Sanders <camsanders01(a)roadrunner.com> wrote: > To come back to Juan's latest question, let me say: > I spent many months last year loading software development > environments for a variety of programming languages to see the state > of the world. And I found myself disappointed that we really haven't > bested smalltalk yet. Smalltalk is great, I just figured... > something better would have come along over the years. For ease of > realizing a design vision, and platform independence, it is hard to > beat smalltalk. > > I could not commit to VisualWorks because of the licensing terms, > for commercialize work. Dolphin is platform limited, and differs > from the other smalltalks. VisualAge is too pricey! [I tried the > other flavors too...] These are good tools, they just do not fit my > requirements or means. After digging around, I like the licensing > terms of Pharo. It is on the right track. It is rich in > functionality. It works; it is robust. > > I am strictly a user right now, but I will try to contribute in the > future. I like Stef's idea of a "bounty" -- great idea! > > So my advice for a free smalltalk is -- drumroll please... -- Pharo. > But don't ignore Squeak itself, nor the variants, depending on your > needs. > > That said, the the lack of a GUI builder is a clear deficiency. But > we will add one. [Ahem... i sound like royalty with my use of the > word "we"; i co-authored one in C/X/motif in the 1980s... it should > be at least that simple in smalltalk. The aforementioned tool took > two of us about one week; but I know nothing about Morph at this > time.] Depending on your needs, simple GUI's are easy to build with > Morph, but sometimes (most?) i just want to paint the interface and > give it some thought before fully wiring it. It allows one to > quickly probe whether the vision(the GUI) is an acceptable/ > comfortable/sufficient/... means for a user to interact with the > application. Especially when working with others programmers, and > worse, those pesky clients! Clients love interfaces. > > (I still do not know what Polymorph is, is it a completely different > system? a piggy-back system? They can co-exist right? but they use a > different value-changed notification system?) > > Pharo has value models, right? [Or am i... -- I'll look later.] > > Again, thanks to the good work of the Pharo people (and Squeak > people), I have found some sanity in life. I got tired of Python > changing. I cannot stand strong typing. I love Smalltalk. And the > best part is that it's free! > > Cheers, > Cam > PS: speed is another high-priority. VisualWorks and Dolphin feel > really snappy! > > > On Jun 19, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Steve Wirts wrote: > >> Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super >> powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost >> in OO guis. >> VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due >> to them being undervalued. >> I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into >> pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. >> >> see >> http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html >> >> Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to >> VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really >> know yet. >> Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite >> awhile! >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.f >> r> wrote: >> > >> > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I >> > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak >> coders >> > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At >> student >> > level pay I must add.) >> > >> > I too want a GUI builder. >> >> >> me too :) >> So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. >> Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much >> time for >> extensions but we would support any work in the direction of >> UIBuilder >> TestServer >> Package.... >> FileWrite-Rio kind of integration >> Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) >> Better SUnit >> Better tools (for example like the newInspector) >> >> Stef >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Cameron Sanders

To come back to Juan's latest question, let me say: I spent many months last year loading software development environments for a variety of programming languages to see the state of the world. And I found myself disappointed that we really haven't bested smalltalk yet. Smalltalk is great, I just figured... something better would have come along over the years. For ease of realizing a design vision, and platform independence, it is hard to beat smalltalk. I could not commit to VisualWorks because of the licensing terms, for commercialize work. Dolphin is platform limited, and differs from the other smalltalks. VisualAge is too pricey! [I tried the other flavors too...] These are good tools, they just do not fit my requirements or means. After digging around, I like the licensing terms of Pharo. It is on the right track. It is rich in functionality. It works; it is robust. I am strictly a user right now, but I will try to contribute in the future. I like Stef's idea of a "bounty" -- great idea! So my advice for a free smalltalk is -- drumroll please... -- Pharo. But don't ignore Squeak itself, nor the variants, depending on your needs. That said, the the lack of a GUI builder is a clear deficiency. But we will add one. [Ahem... i sound like royalty with my use of the word "we"; i co-authored one in C/X/motif in the 1980s... it should be at least that simple in smalltalk. The aforementioned tool took two of us about one week; but I know nothing about Morph at this time.] Depending on your needs, simple GUI's are easy to build with Morph, but sometimes (most?) i just want to paint the interface and give it some thought before fully wiring it. It allows one to quickly probe whether the vision(the GUI) is an acceptable/comfortable/ sufficient/... means for a user to interact with the application. Especially when working with others programmers, and worse, those pesky clients! Clients love interfaces. (I still do not know what Polymorph is, is it a completely different system? a piggy-back system? They can co-exist right? but they use a different value-changed notification system?) Pharo has value models, right? [Or am i... -- I'll look later.] Again, thanks to the good work of the Pharo people (and Squeak people), I have found some sanity in life. I got tired of Python changing. I cannot stand strong typing. I love Smalltalk. And the best part is that it's free! Cheers, Cam PS: speed is another high-priority. VisualWorks and Dolphin feel really snappy! On Jun 19, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Steve Wirts wrote: > Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super > powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost > in OO guis. > VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due > to them being undervalued. > I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into > pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. > > see > http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html > > Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to > VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really > know yet. > Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! > > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > > > > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I > > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak > coders > > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student > > level pay I must add.) > > > > I too want a GUI builder. > > > me too :) > So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. > Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time > for > extensions but we would support any work in the direction of > UIBuilder > TestServer > Package.... > FileWrite-Rio kind of integration > Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) > Better SUnit > Better tools (for example like the newInspector) > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Steve, Interesting that you mention value models. I just ran into a use for a ValueHolder, and discovered that Dolphin's #value, #value: protocol was not present. In fact ValueHolder>>value answers the receiver! I added an override to my Dolphin compatibility package. I exepect to add AspectValueAdapter and perhaps some converters as need arises. None of this takes away from Magritte; I share your interest in it and willingness to consider it as potentially powerful tool for GUI building. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Steve Wirts Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:01 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost in OO guis. VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due to them being undervalued. I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. see http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really know yet. Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: > > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student > level pay I must add.) > > I too want a GUI builder. me too :) So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time for extensions but we would support any work in the direction of UIBuilder TestServer Package.... FileWrite-Rio kind of integration Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) Better SUnit Better tools (for example like the newInspector) Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S

by Steve Wirts

Value Models, TypeConverter library, SubCanvas support(super powerful idea here), etc... some really wonderful idioms long lost in OO guis. VisualWorks had some really nice frameworks that were discarded due to them being undervalued. I hope to eventually re-introduce some of these fun frameworks into pharo given my time constraints and interest from potential users. see http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html Magritte seems like it might be a superior alternative to VisualWorks ValueModels; I haven't explored it enough to really know yet. Pharo is the most exciting thing to come along for me in quite awhile! On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > > > I don't know what I am waiting for -- except more time -- because I > > guess I should build such a thing. (Are there any Pharo/squeak coders > > available for part-time consulting over the next year? ...At student > > level pay I must add.) > > > > I too want a GUI builder. > > > me too :) > So may be we could have a kind of bounty system for pharo. > Frankly we are rather full and we (the core) have not that much time for > extensions but we would support any work in the direction of > UIBuilder > TestServer > Package.... > FileWrite-Rio kind of integration > Better MC support (yes I should look at MC1.5) > Better SUnit > Better tools (for example like the newInspector) > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 20, 2009