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May 2009

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Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts configuration

by Tudor Girba

It would help indeed, but I still want to be able to distinguish between the many windows when they are open, and when I hover over the buttons at the bottom (in the preview) so I will still stick to the condensed bold font :). Doru On 22 May 2009, at 15:38, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > > On May 22, 2009, at 14:19 , Tudor Girba wrote: > >> I certainly will not try to enforce it on anybody :). >> >> The reason why I used condensed bold for the title and menu is that >> because we have so many of them both windows and menus, it is >> difficult to identify them. So, I want to quickly spot the title when >> hovering over the tabs at the bottom which is not accomplishable. > > Then we should probably fix that the label of the tab shows what you > need to know (I assume the class name). Currently, the class name is > prefixed with "System Browser: ", which uses up all the space as soon > as one has several open windows. I would just remove "System Browser: > " in the window title and tab label and only print the class name. > Would that help? > > Adrian > >> As >> for the menus, I just find them easier to grasp in this way. >> >> Anyway, I added this script together with a version for demos (larger >> font size) here: >> >> MCHttpRepository >> location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/setup' >> user: '' >> password: '' >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> On 22 May 2009, at 13:20, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >> >>> gaah, these fat menus and title fonts look awful to me! ;) >>> Adrian >>> >>> On May 22, 2009, at 12:48 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> :) >>>> looks cool to me. thanks doru. >>>> >>>> <Picture 7.pdf><Picture 6.pdf> >>>> On May 22, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks a lot, that worked fine. >>>>> >>>>> So, I list below my settings. I use Helvetica Neue Condensed Bold >>>>> for >>>>> menus and window title. Because I use it there, I also use >>>>> Helvetica >>>>> Neue regular for the rest of the items, except for the code >>>>> where I >>>>> use Monaco: >>>>> >>>>> menuFont := LogicalFont >>>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>> pointSize: 9 >>>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont >>>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>> pointSize: 14 >>>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 8. >>>>> defaultFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' pointSize: >>>>> 9. >>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setFlapsFontTo: menuFont. >>>>> Preferences setHaloLabelFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: menuFont. >>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>> Preferences setBalloonHelpFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 22 May 2009, at 11:05, Andrew Tween wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: girba(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:19:44 +0200 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts >>>>>>> configuration >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to give my script, but I do not know how to specify >>>>>> in a >>>>>>> script that I want 'Helvetica Neue' - 'Condensed Bold'. Can >>>>>>> anyone >>>>>> help? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont >>>>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>>> pointSize: 9 >>>>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 22 May 2009, at 09:56, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hm, they look perfect on my machine. I just took a 10310 Pharo >>>>>> core >>>>>>>> and run the script I posted. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you have the BitBlt plugin added to the VM? >>>>>>>> Are the DejaVu fonts blurry as well? Can you post a screenshot? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 23:30 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> this is strange because I get a blurry result. >>>>>>>>> Should I have a specific package loaded: I tried with the >>>>>> 10309dev >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the VM has the FT2plugin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mac, I like the following "special" configuration with >>>>>>>>>> Lucida >>>>>>>>>> Grande and Monaco: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' pointSize: >>>>>>>>>> 10. >>>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 9. >>>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedAscent' put: 12. >>>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedHeight' put: 15. >>>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' >>>>>> pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Note, I manually tweak the font description of Monaco to >>>>>> decrease >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> line height (don't know why it is that high by default). With >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> above, it looks more like in TextMate for example. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:55 , Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, anythinks related to look'nd feel and overal design in >>>>>> Pharo >>>>>>>>>>> could help a lot to make people to LOVE Pharo or to RUN >>>>>>>>>>> AWAY. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regarding fonts, I found myself sharing the point previously >>>>>>>>>>> expressed there: >>>>>>>>>>> -Dejavu Sans for all but code >>>>>>>>>>> -Code with Dedavu mono >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The issue about Freetype efficiency, related to submorph >>>>>>>>>>> damage >>>>>>>>>>> code >>>>>>>>>>> related previsouly, is of equal importance. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If the user experience is ungood -- slowness -- people will >>>>>>>>>>> RUN >>>>>>>>>>> AWAY. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2009/5/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> on one hand we should have a good default for fonts - >>>>>>>>>>>> default >>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>>>>>>>> ok >>>>>>>>>>>> for license and >>>>>>>>>>>> work on platforms.... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now I would LOVE to get a list of cool combination of fonts >>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>> they are proprietary. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So I hope that I woke the designer in you :) >>>>>>>>>>>> Send snippets in the following forms that we can impress >>>>>> girls :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans' pointSize: >>>>>>>>>>>> 10. >>>>>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' >>>>>> pointSize: >>>>>>>>>>>> 9. >>>>>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' >>>>>> pointSize: 11. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>>>>>>> pharo- >>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>> project >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>>> project >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> " Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. " Download >>>>>> Now_______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>> project >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "No matter how many recipes we'll know, we'll still value a chef." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "In a world where everything is moving ever faster, >> one might have better chances to win by moving slower." >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- www.tudorgirba.com "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts configuration

by Adrian Lienhard

On May 22, 2009, at 14:19 , Tudor Girba wrote: > I certainly will not try to enforce it on anybody :). > > The reason why I used condensed bold for the title and menu is that > because we have so many of them both windows and menus, it is > difficult to identify them. So, I want to quickly spot the title when > hovering over the tabs at the bottom which is not accomplishable. Then we should probably fix that the label of the tab shows what you need to know (I assume the class name). Currently, the class name is prefixed with "System Browser: ", which uses up all the space as soon as one has several open windows. I would just remove "System Browser: " in the window title and tab label and only print the class name. Would that help? Adrian > As > for the menus, I just find them easier to grasp in this way. > > Anyway, I added this script together with a version for demos (larger > font size) here: > > MCHttpRepository > location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/setup' > user: '' > password: '' > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 22 May 2009, at 13:20, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> gaah, these fat menus and title fonts look awful to me! ;) >> Adrian >> >> On May 22, 2009, at 12:48 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> :) >>> looks cool to me. thanks doru. >>> >>> <Picture 7.pdf><Picture 6.pdf> >>> On May 22, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks a lot, that worked fine. >>>> >>>> So, I list below my settings. I use Helvetica Neue Condensed Bold >>>> for >>>> menus and window title. Because I use it there, I also use >>>> Helvetica >>>> Neue regular for the rest of the items, except for the code where I >>>> use Monaco: >>>> >>>> menuFont := LogicalFont >>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>> pointSize: 9 >>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>> titleFont := LogicalFont >>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>> pointSize: 14 >>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 8. >>>> defaultFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' pointSize: >>>> 9. >>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setListFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setFlapsFontTo: menuFont. >>>> Preferences setHaloLabelFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: menuFont. >>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>> Preferences setBalloonHelpFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22 May 2009, at 11:05, Andrew Tween wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: girba(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:19:44 +0200 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts >>>>>> configuration >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to give my script, but I do not know how to specify >>>>> in a >>>>>> script that I want 'Helvetica Neue' - 'Condensed Bold'. Can >>>>>> anyone >>>>> help? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont >>>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>> pointSize: 9 >>>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 22 May 2009, at 09:56, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hm, they look perfect on my machine. I just took a 10310 Pharo >>>>> core >>>>>>> and run the script I posted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you have the BitBlt plugin added to the VM? >>>>>>> Are the DejaVu fonts blurry as well? Can you post a screenshot? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 23:30 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> this is strange because I get a blurry result. >>>>>>>> Should I have a specific package loaded: I tried with the >>>>> 10309dev >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the VM has the FT2plugin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mac, I like the following "special" configuration with >>>>>>>>> Lucida >>>>>>>>> Grande and Monaco: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 9. >>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedAscent' put: 12. >>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedHeight' put: 15. >>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' >>>>> pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Note, I manually tweak the font description of Monaco to >>>>> decrease >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> line height (don't know why it is that high by default). With >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> above, it looks more like in TextMate for example. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:55 , Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, anythinks related to look'nd feel and overal design in >>>>> Pharo >>>>>>>>>> could help a lot to make people to LOVE Pharo or to RUN AWAY. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regarding fonts, I found myself sharing the point previously >>>>>>>>>> expressed there: >>>>>>>>>> -Dejavu Sans for all but code >>>>>>>>>> -Code with Dedavu mono >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The issue about Freetype efficiency, related to submorph >>>>>>>>>> damage >>>>>>>>>> code >>>>>>>>>> related previsouly, is of equal importance. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If the user experience is ungood -- slowness -- people will >>>>>>>>>> RUN >>>>>>>>>> AWAY. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2009/5/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> on one hand we should have a good default for fonts - >>>>>>>>>>> default >>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>>>>>>> ok >>>>>>>>>>> for license and >>>>>>>>>>> work on platforms.... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Now I would LOVE to get a list of cool combination of fonts >>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>> they are proprietary. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So I hope that I woke the designer in you :) >>>>>>>>>>> Send snippets in the following forms that we can impress >>>>> girls :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' >>>>> pointSize: >>>>>>>>>>> 9. >>>>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' >>>>> pointSize: 11. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>> project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> " Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. " Download >>>>> Now_______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "No matter how many recipes we'll know, we'll still value a chef." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "In a world where everything is moving ever faster, > one might have better chances to win by moving slower." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo

by Ramiro Diaz Trepat

Hi Bill, in spite that I believe that the original cryptography package was a great piece of work, I completely agree with you in both matters: 1) we will need a crypto package soon, 2) If we want to be standing in the shoulders of giants, we better stand on OpenSSL :) Cheers. r -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: 22 May 2009 13:39 To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ramiro, *The* cryptography package as written was not necessary to anything; **a** crytography package is indeed necessary for lots of things, no argment there. OpenSSL can do the hashes you require courtesy of FFI/Alien or a wrapping plugin. We'll get there, and hopefully not by re-inventing the wheel as the original team chose to do; sorry, but it's a tricky area where mistakes are easy to make and can be catastrophic. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Ramiro Diaz Trepat Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:19 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in general. It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. Cheers r. -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > solution. > > Bill > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with >> curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these >> methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>wrote: > Ramiro, > > *The* cryptography package as written was not necessary to anything; **a** > crytography package is indeed necessary for lots of things, no argment > there. OpenSSL can do the hashes you require courtesy of FFI/Alien or a > wrapping plugin. We'll get there, and hopefully not by re-inventing the > wheel as the original team chose to do; sorry, but it's a tricky area where > mistakes are easy to make and can be catastrophic. > Bill why don't you propose this for a ESUG SummerTalk project ? > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Ramiro Diaz > Trepat > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:19 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. > It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres > databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will > probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in > general. > It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I > suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, > is a lot of work. > Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. > Cheers > > r. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse > Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. > > Stef > > On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > > solution. > > > > Bill > > > > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > > > > Just a comment, > > > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > > > Fernando > > > > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as > >> follows: > >> > >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography > >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't > >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's > >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you > >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to > >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with > >> curl. > >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to > >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from > >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty > >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. > >> Ever read Sun Tzu? > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck > >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM > >> To: Pharo Development > >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > >> > >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package > >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? > >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of > >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these > >> methods were removed in Pharo. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Mariano > >> <ATT00001.txt> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and > conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, > accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal > privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at > http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Ramiro Diaz Trepat < ramiro.diaz.trepat(a)jpmorgan.com> wrote: > I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. > It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres > databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will > probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in > general. Yes. That's why I saw it. I am trying to make Glorp to work in Pharo, but as you know Glorp in Squeak only works with Postgres. And the native postgres driver requieres cryptography package when you use md5 :( Just for now, I disable md5 from my postgres and use "password" auth-method. With this, cryptography is not needed. However, this is not an option in a production enviorment. Cheers, Mariano > > It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I > suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, > is a lot of work. > Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. > Cheers > > r. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse > Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. > > Stef > > On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we > > should look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true > > of OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers > > widely known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who > > will want OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- > > grown solution. > > > > Bill > > > > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > > > > Just a comment, > > > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > > > Fernando > > > > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as > >> follows: > >> > >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the > >> Cryptography package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL > >> implementation doesn't allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on > >> logging to see what's happening. Following the state machine > >> transitions should give you the answer why the handshake isn't > >> succeding. It might be related to certificates or TLS->SSL3 > >> fallback. If I were you, I would go with curl. > >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition > >> to looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code > >> from scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty > >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. > >> Ever read Sun Tzu? > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck > >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM > >> To: Pharo Development > >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > >> > >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package > >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to > >> Pharo? Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots > >> of Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and > >> these methods were removed in Pharo. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Mariano > >> <ATT00001.txt> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and > conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of > securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, > confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, > available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Ramiro, *The* cryptography package as written was not necessary to anything; **a** crytography package is indeed necessary for lots of things, no argment there. OpenSSL can do the hashes you require courtesy of FFI/Alien or a wrapping plugin. We'll get there, and hopefully not by re-inventing the wheel as the original team chose to do; sorry, but it's a tricky area where mistakes are easy to make and can be catastrophic. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Ramiro Diaz Trepat Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:19 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo I'm really sorry to hear it is no longer being maintained. It was a necessary package to connect to properly set up Postgres databases, that requiere sending password hashes with SHA-1. We will probably face this kind of need when interacting with the outside world in general. It was a fantastic package, I wonder why the maintainers droped it. I suppose maintaining crypto frameworks up to date, with no vulnerabilities, is a lot of work. Sorry for venting out my sadnes to the list. Cheers r. -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: 22 May 2009 11:08 To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > solution. > > Bill > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with >> curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these >> methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, I thought so too until a while ago, but it appears to be long gone. I would enjoy being shown otherwise. However, I still think there is good reason to expose and promote both curl and OpenSSL because they will draw "customers." Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 5:08 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo Ok I thought the cryptology package was working well and maintained. Stef On May 22, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Agreed: I mentioned both curl and OpenSSL - we should embrace both. > AFACT, the cryptography package is a thing of the past, and we should > look to active projects. Tell me where I'm wrong, please. > > Another reality, fair or not: if we were to take on the enormous > burden of maintaining the cypto package, there would always be > questions about security holes we left open. The same will be true of > OpenSSL, but there is (not always fair) credibility in numbers widely > known projects. There will be would-be users of Pharo who will want > OpenSSL for its reputation, and who would question a home- grown > solution. > > Bill > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of Fernando olivero > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:20 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo > > > Just a comment, > > you could use the new AlienFFI framework to comunicate with curl. > Or reify any C library you want in Pharo. > > Fernando > > > On May 22, 2009, at 5:04 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> The most recent post on the crytography mailing list starts out as >> follows: >> >> Since the Cryptography Team doesn't exists anymore, the Cryptography >> package is not maintained by anyone. The SSL implementation doesn't >> allow easy debugging, you can't just turn on logging to see what's >> happening. Following the state machine transitions should give you >> the answer why the handshake isn't succeding. It might be related to >> certificates or TLS->SSL3 fallback. If I were you, I would go with >> curl. >> I think it is time to write a wrapper around open SSL in addition to >> looking at the curl plugin. Trying to write cryptography code from >> scratch and get and keep it right is a huge effort, and pretty >> avoidable, and IMHO, better avoided by letting others do the job. >> Ever read Sun Tzu? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr >> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck >> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:51 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Port of Cryptography to Pharo >> >> I don't know if there is anyone of the developers of the package >> Cryptography but is someone is willing to do the port of it to Pharo? >> Most tests are break and it seems not to work because lots of >> Cryptography methods where in classes like SmallInteger and these >> methods were removed in Pharo. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mariano >> <ATT00001.txt> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts configuration

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks I will use that for my lecture next week :) On May 22, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > I certainly will not try to enforce it on anybody :). > > The reason why I used condensed bold for the title and menu is that > because we have so many of them both windows and menus, it is > difficult to identify them. So, I want to quickly spot the title when > hovering over the tabs at the bottom which is not accomplishable. As > for the menus, I just find them easier to grasp in this way. > > Anyway, I added this script together with a version for demos (larger > font size) here: > > MCHttpRepository > location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/setup' > user: '' > password: '' > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 22 May 2009, at 13:20, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> gaah, these fat menus and title fonts look awful to me! ;) >> Adrian >> >> On May 22, 2009, at 12:48 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> :) >>> looks cool to me. thanks doru. >>> >>> <Picture 7.pdf><Picture 6.pdf> >>> On May 22, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks a lot, that worked fine. >>>> >>>> So, I list below my settings. I use Helvetica Neue Condensed Bold >>>> for >>>> menus and window title. Because I use it there, I also use >>>> Helvetica >>>> Neue regular for the rest of the items, except for the code where I >>>> use Monaco: >>>> >>>> menuFont := LogicalFont >>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>> pointSize: 9 >>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>> titleFont := LogicalFont >>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>> pointSize: 14 >>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 8. >>>> defaultFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' pointSize: >>>> 9. >>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setListFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setFlapsFontTo: menuFont. >>>> Preferences setHaloLabelFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: menuFont. >>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>> Preferences setBalloonHelpFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: defaultFont. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22 May 2009, at 11:05, Andrew Tween wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: girba(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:19:44 +0200 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts >>>>>> configuration >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to give my script, but I do not know how to specify >>>>> in a >>>>>> script that I want 'Helvetica Neue' - 'Condensed Bold'. Can >>>>>> anyone >>>>> help? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont >>>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>> pointSize: 9 >>>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Doru >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 22 May 2009, at 09:56, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hm, they look perfect on my machine. I just took a 10310 Pharo >>>>> core >>>>>>> and run the script I posted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you have the BitBlt plugin added to the VM? >>>>>>> Are the DejaVu fonts blurry as well? Can you post a screenshot? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 23:30 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> this is strange because I get a blurry result. >>>>>>>> Should I have a specific package loaded: I tried with the >>>>> 10309dev >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the VM has the FT2plugin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mac, I like the following "special" configuration with >>>>>>>>> Lucida >>>>>>>>> Grande and Monaco: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 9. >>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedAscent' put: 12. >>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedHeight' put: 15. >>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' >>>>> pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Note, I manually tweak the font description of Monaco to >>>>> decrease >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> line height (don't know why it is that high by default). With >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> above, it looks more like in TextMate for example. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:55 , Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, anythinks related to look'nd feel and overal design in >>>>> Pharo >>>>>>>>>> could help a lot to make people to LOVE Pharo or to RUN AWAY. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regarding fonts, I found myself sharing the point previously >>>>>>>>>> expressed there: >>>>>>>>>> -Dejavu Sans for all but code >>>>>>>>>> -Code with Dedavu mono >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The issue about Freetype efficiency, related to submorph >>>>>>>>>> damage >>>>>>>>>> code >>>>>>>>>> related previsouly, is of equal importance. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If the user experience is ungood -- slowness -- people will >>>>>>>>>> RUN >>>>>>>>>> AWAY. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2009/5/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> on one hand we should have a good default for fonts - >>>>>>>>>>> default >>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>>>>>>> ok >>>>>>>>>>> for license and >>>>>>>>>>> work on platforms.... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Now I would LOVE to get a list of cool combination of fonts >>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>> they are proprietary. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So I hope that I woke the designer in you :) >>>>>>>>>>> Send snippets in the following forms that we can impress >>>>> girls :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' >>>>> pointSize: >>>>>>>>>>> 9. >>>>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' >>>>> pointSize: 11. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>> project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> " Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. " Download >>>>> Now_______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "No matter how many recipes we'll know, we'll still value a chef." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "In a world where everything is moving ever faster, > one might have better chances to win by moving slower." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts configuration

by Tudor Girba

I certainly will not try to enforce it on anybody :). The reason why I used condensed bold for the title and menu is that because we have so many of them both windows and menus, it is difficult to identify them. So, I want to quickly spot the title when hovering over the tabs at the bottom which is not accomplishable. As for the menus, I just find them easier to grasp in this way. Anyway, I added this script together with a version for demos (larger font size) here: MCHttpRepository location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/setup' user: '' password: '' Cheers, Doru On 22 May 2009, at 13:20, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > gaah, these fat menus and title fonts look awful to me! ;) > Adrian > > On May 22, 2009, at 12:48 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> :) >> looks cool to me. thanks doru. >> >> <Picture 7.pdf><Picture 6.pdf> >> On May 22, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Thanks a lot, that worked fine. >>> >>> So, I list below my settings. I use Helvetica Neue Condensed Bold >>> for >>> menus and window title. Because I use it there, I also use Helvetica >>> Neue regular for the rest of the items, except for the code where I >>> use Monaco: >>> >>> menuFont := LogicalFont >>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>> pointSize: 9 >>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>> titleFont := LogicalFont >>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>> pointSize: 14 >>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 8. >>> defaultFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' pointSize: >>> 9. >>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: defaultFont. >>> Preferences setListFontTo: defaultFont. >>> Preferences setFlapsFontTo: menuFont. >>> Preferences setHaloLabelFontTo: defaultFont. >>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: menuFont. >>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>> Preferences setBalloonHelpFontTo: defaultFont. >>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: defaultFont. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On 22 May 2009, at 11:05, Andrew Tween wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: girba(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:19:44 +0200 >>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts >>>>> configuration >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I would like to give my script, but I do not know how to specify >>>> in a >>>>> script that I want 'Helvetica Neue' - 'Condensed Bold'. Can anyone >>>> help? >>>> >>>> >>>> codeFont := LogicalFont >>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>> pointSize: 9 >>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 22 May 2009, at 09:56, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hm, they look perfect on my machine. I just took a 10310 Pharo >>>> core >>>>>> and run the script I posted. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you have the BitBlt plugin added to the VM? >>>>>> Are the DejaVu fonts blurry as well? Can you post a screenshot? >>>>>> >>>>>> Adrian >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 23:30 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> this is strange because I get a blurry result. >>>>>>> Should I have a specific package loaded: I tried with the >>>> 10309dev >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the VM has the FT2plugin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mac, I like the following "special" configuration with >>>>>>>> Lucida >>>>>>>> Grande and Monaco: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 9. >>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedAscent' put: 12. >>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedHeight' put: 15. >>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' >>>> pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note, I manually tweak the font description of Monaco to >>>> decrease >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> line height (don't know why it is that high by default). With >>>> the >>>>>>>> above, it looks more like in TextMate for example. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:55 , Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, anythinks related to look'nd feel and overal design in >>>> Pharo >>>>>>>>> could help a lot to make people to LOVE Pharo or to RUN AWAY. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regarding fonts, I found myself sharing the point previously >>>>>>>>> expressed there: >>>>>>>>> -Dejavu Sans for all but code >>>>>>>>> -Code with Dedavu mono >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The issue about Freetype efficiency, related to submorph >>>>>>>>> damage >>>>>>>>> code >>>>>>>>> related previsouly, is of equal importance. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If the user experience is ungood -- slowness -- people will >>>>>>>>> RUN >>>>>>>>> AWAY. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2009/5/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>>>>> Hi guys >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> on one hand we should have a good default for fonts - default >>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>>>>>> ok >>>>>>>>>> for license and >>>>>>>>>> work on platforms.... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now I would LOVE to get a list of cool combination of fonts >>>> even >>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>> they are proprietary. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So I hope that I woke the designer in you :) >>>>>>>>>> Send snippets in the following forms that we can impress >>>> girls :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' >>>> pointSize: >>>>>>>>>> 9. >>>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' >>>> pointSize: 11. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>> project >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>> >>>> >>>> " Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. " Download >>>> Now_______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "No matter how many recipes we'll know, we'll still value a chef." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- www.tudorgirba.com "In a world where everything is moving ever faster, one might have better chances to win by moving slower."

May 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts configuration

by Andrey Larionov

A you tried it actualy or just say it looking on specified font sizes? Liberation fonts is not small by nature so this sizes is very nice for my 1280x800. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 16:08, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > quite small :) > > On May 22, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Andrey Larionov wrote: > >> My favourite font set is Liberation from RedHat. But this set have >> license issue. >> >> |font codeFont tooltipFont| >> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'Liberation Sans' pointSize: 9. >> tooltipFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Liberation Sans' pointSize: 7. >> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Liberation Mono' pointSize: 9. >> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Liberation Sans' pointSize: 11. >> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >> Preferences setBalloonHelpFontTo: tooltipFont. >> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >> >> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 15:20, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >> wrote: >>> gaah, these fat menus and title fonts look awful to me! ;) >>> Adrian >>> >>> On May 22, 2009, at 12:48 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> :) >>>> looks cool to me. thanks doru. >>>> >>>> <Picture 7.pdf><Picture 6.pdf> >>>> On May 22, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks a lot, that worked fine. >>>>> >>>>> So, I list below my settings. I use Helvetica Neue Condensed Bold >>>>> for >>>>> menus and window title. Because I use it there, I also use >>>>> Helvetica >>>>> Neue regular for the rest of the items, except for the code where I >>>>> use Monaco: >>>>> >>>>> menuFont := LogicalFont >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â pointSize: 9 >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â pointSize: 14 >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 8. >>>>> defaultFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>> pointSize: 9. >>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setFlapsFontTo: menuFont. >>>>> Preferences setHaloLabelFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: menuFont. >>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>> Preferences setBalloonHelpFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: defaultFont. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 22 May 2009, at 11:05, Andrew Tween wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: girba(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:19:44 +0200 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] call for hypercool fonts >>>>>>> configuration >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to give my script, but I do not know how to specify >>>>>> in a >>>>>>> script that I want 'Helvetica Neue' - 'Condensed Bold'. Can >>>>>>> anyone >>>>>> help? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont >>>>>> familyName: 'Helvetica Neue' >>>>>> pointSize: 9 >>>>>> stretchValue: (LogicalFont stretchCondensed) >>>>>> weightValue: (LogicalFont weightBold) >>>>>> slantValue: (LogicalFont slantNormal). >>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 22 May 2009, at 09:56, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hm, they look perfect on my machine. I just took a 10310 Pharo >>>>>> core >>>>>>>> and run the script I posted. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you have the BitBlt plugin added to the VM? >>>>>>>> Are the DejaVu fonts blurry as well? Can you post a screenshot? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 23:30 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> this is strange because I get a blurry result. >>>>>>>>> Should I have a specific package loaded: I tried with the >>>>>> 10309dev >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the VM has the FT2plugin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mac, I like the following "special" configuration with >>>>>>>>>> Lucida >>>>>>>>>> Grande and Monaco: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Monaco' pointSize: 9. >>>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedAscent' put: 12. >>>>>>>>>> codeFont realFont instVarNamed: 'cachedHeight' put: 15. >>>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'Lucida Grande' >>>>>> pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Note, I manually tweak the font description of Monaco to >>>>>> decrease >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> line height (don't know why it is that high by default). With >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> above, it looks more like in TextMate for example. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 21, 2009, at 10:55 , Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, anythinks related to look'nd feel and overal design in >>>>>> Pharo >>>>>>>>>>> could help a lot to make people to LOVE Pharo or to RUN AWAY. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regarding fonts, I found myself sharing the point previously >>>>>>>>>>> expressed there: >>>>>>>>>>> -Dejavu Sans for all but code >>>>>>>>>>> -Code with Dedavu mono >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The issue about Freetype efficiency, related to submorph >>>>>>>>>>> damage >>>>>>>>>>> code >>>>>>>>>>> related previsouly, is of equal importance. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If the user experience is ungood -- slowness -- people will >>>>>>>>>>> RUN >>>>>>>>>>> AWAY. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2009/5/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> on one hand we should have a good default for fonts - >>>>>>>>>>>> default >>>>>>>>>>>> means >>>>>>>>>>>> ok >>>>>>>>>>>> for license and >>>>>>>>>>>> work on platforms.... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now I would LOVE to get a list of cool combination of fonts >>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>> they are proprietary. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So I hope that I woke the designer in you :) >>>>>>>>>>>> Send snippets in the following forms that we can impress >>>>>> girls :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans' pointSize: 10. >>>>>>>>>>>> codeFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Sans Mono' >>>>>> pointSize: >>>>>>>>>>>> 9. >>>>>>>>>>>> titleFont := LogicalFont familyName: 'DejaVu Serif' >>>>>> pointSize: 11. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setListFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setMenuFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setCodeFontTo: codeFont. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setButtonFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setSystemFontTo: font. >>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences setWindowTitleFontTo: titleFont. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>>>>>>>> project >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>> project >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> " Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. " Download >>>>>> Now_______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>>> project >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "No matter how many recipes we'll know, we'll still value a chef." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 22, 2009

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