March 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] SqNumberParser!

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Howdy folks! In working on Tirade I stumbled upon SqNumberParser and its history: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=3512 ...it was added to the image in 3.9 but not hooked into Scanner - Scanned still uses Number class>>readFrom:. Now... In Tirade I can use whichever - but using SqNumberParser makes it more correct, and quite faster - although "less portable" since I would depend on it. I will now make Tirade use SqNumberParser *if present* in the image, otherwise fall back on Number class>>readFrom:. This opens up some slight potential incompatibility issues, but whatever. Question: Is there anything stopping 3.9+ including Pharo to start using SqNumberParser from Scanner>>xDigit? And oh, the class name is not so good IMHO, why the Sq prefix? And yeah, class var not used in SqNumberParser: BelllerophonBase10 :) regards, GÃ¶ran

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi! StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi goran > > I did not get at all why you need a new format. > Without self. > I think that if you want adoption of deltastream do not mix them with > a file format. I am sorry, perhaps you haven't followed the reasoning, a quick recap: 1. Deltas are not bound to a specific format on disk. You can store them in any way you like. They are "self contained object graphs" in the image and can trivially be serialized. 2. Matthew made a format called "Interleaved ChangeSet" which combines binary data with the chunk format meaning that a Delta can be stored both as a changeset (loosing lots of info) and a Delta embedded inside it. This means an old image can "file it in" just like a cs. 3. I think the Interleaved format is a bit too complex and while it is "cool" I don't think the use case is *that* important (being backward compatible for images that don't know what a Delta is). It is probably simpler to include easy conversion delta2cs and cs2delta. These conversions are not lossless however. 4. Since I wanted a readable, simple, fast, editable, and secure format for Deltas - I came up with Tirade. Chunk format is readable, simple and editable but it is not fast nor secure. It is also less "declarative" in nature IMHO. Tirade is well defined, small and simple. The Tirade package is just a few classes and it is intended to work in "all Squeaks" - no dependencies on any advanced stuff. Tirade is a "data format" - it is NOT "Smalltalk code", it just happens to match a lot of syntax and concepts. It is "merely" a sequence of keyword messages with "data" as arguments (String, Symbol, Arrays, Associations and Numbers - nested however you like). That is it. No assignment, no variables, no globals, no expressions etc etc. It is NOT Smalltalk. Adding "self" to it has no purpose, well, the ONLY purpose would be to make it "look" like Smalltalk. Now... this is repeating stuff I have already written elsewhere - but there ya go. :) regards, GÃ¶ran

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by Igor Stasenko

2009/3/20 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > the same :) > I like coral scripting format. > this is just a better chunk format :) > > But I do not want to open a war again. So better do it "alone" than > fight with others. > This is also my motto. > I looking at it at different angle: why inventing own wheel, when there is already existing solutions. I'm not sure if Coral fits well with DS (looks like it depends on NewCompiler), i just gave Goran a links, so he could decide if it is. > Stef > > > >> i wonder, wouldn't it be better to adopt a new smalltalk scripting >> format, which annouced here lately? >> IMO it is better to use single format for many different purposes than >> use multiple formats. >> What you think? >> >> 2009/3/20 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> Hi goran >>> >>> I did not get at all why you need a new format. >>> Without self. >>> I think that if you want adoption of deltastream do not mix them with >>> a file format. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Mar 20, 2009, at 9:42 AM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: >>> >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> Keith Hodges wrote: >>>>> Also with DeltaStreams integration with Installer, we might have >>>>> the >>>>> ability to load into a "Delta/SystemEditor" rather than actually in >>>>> to >>>>> the image. >>>> >>>> Ah! There's my queue! :) >>>> >>>> Yes, although I only read casually what you are talking about I do >>>> agree >>>> with the general notions expressed. And yes, hopefully we will soon >>>> have >>>> Deltas in a useful form. >>>> >>>> Quick status again, followed with some questions: >>>> >>>> - Lots of tests are now green, still lots of tests not green but >>>> most of >>>> them are "wishful thinking"-tests and not really broken tests. >>>> - I am refactoring and cleaning right now, as a pre-cursor to adding >>>> the >>>> new file format. >>>> - I am also just beginning to try out Tirade as a file format. For >>>> more >>>> info on Tirade, see my first article: >>>> >>>> Â Â http://goran.krampe.se/blog/Squeak/Tirade.rdoc >>>> >>>> So in a relatively short timeperiod I hope we have code to load and >>>> save >>>> Deltas as xxx.d (Delta Tirade format) and xxx.dgz (Gzipped). Would >>>> these >>>> two file extensions work? Or should we use convention *.d and >>>> *.d.gz? >>>> >>>> Next step IMHO is to write a Dual Change Sorter-ish tool for Deltas >>>> - I >>>> would also like to hear advice on how to build that in order to: >>>> >>>> - Be compatible with as many Squeak forks as possible. >>>> - Get a clean nice simple tool. >>>> >>>> Just copy plain dual change sorter? Use Toolbuilder? Use MC >>>> codebase? >>>> Omnibase? >>>> >>>> The end goal would be to fully replace Dual Change Sorter - which >>>> means >>>> that I would also like to have some support for loading a cs as a >>>> Delta >>>> and to save a Delta as a plain cs. >>>> >>>> ...and as always, if you like to join us in moving Deltastreams >>>> forward, >>>> just holler! >>>> >>>> regards, GÃ¶ran >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Problem with senders?

by David RÃ¶thlisberger

> I am trying to see the senders of a message. I select "startsWith:" in a > workspace -> right button -> extended search -> senders of it and I get > a wallback. I cannot reproduce this. What kind of image do you use? Looks like a pharo-dev; but which version? Did you update it manually to 10256? #of:label: is defined for a long time in OBNavigate; which version of OB have you loaded? David > MessageNotUnderstood: OBShowSenders class>>of:label: > 20 March 2009 1:11:08 am > > VM: unix - a SmalltalkImage > Image: Pharo0.1 [Latest update: #10256] > > SecurityManager state: > Restricted: false > FileAccess: true > SocketAccess: true > Working Dir /home/mariano/squeak/imagenes > Trusted Dir /home/mariano/squeak/imagenes/secure > Untrusted Dir /home/mariano/squeak/imagenes/My Squeak > > OBShowSenders class(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #of:label: > Receiver: OBShowSenders > Arguments and temporary variables: > aMessage: of: an OBSelectorNode label: 'Senders of > startsWith: [4]' > exception: MessageNotUnderstood: OBShowSenders class>>of:label: > resumeValue: nil > Receiver's instance variables: > superclass: OBNavigate > methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#browserClass->a > CompiledMethod (3617) #noChildr...etc... > format: 136 > instanceVariables: nil > organization: ('as yet unclassified' browserClass > noChildrenMessage) > > subclasses: nil > name: #OBShowSenders > classPool: nil > sharedPools: nil > environment: Smalltalk > category: #'OB-Standard-Announcements' > traitComposition: nil > localSelectors: nil > > DEVToolSet class>>browseSendersOf:name:autoSelect: > Receiver: DEVToolSet > Arguments and temporary variables: > aSymbol: #startsWith: > labelString: 'Senders of startsWith: [4]' > autoSelectString: 'startsWith:' > Receiver's instance variables: > superclass: StandardToolSet > methodDict: a MethodDictionary() > format: 2 > instanceVariables: nil > organization: ('as yet unclassified') > > subclasses: nil > name: #DEVToolSet > classPool: nil > sharedPools: nil > environment: Smalltalk > category: #ImageForDevelopers > traitComposition: nil > localSelectors: nil > > ToolSet class>>browseSendersOf:name:autoSelect: > Receiver: ToolSet > Arguments and temporary variables: > aSymbol: #startsWith: > titleString: 'Senders of startsWith: [4]' > autoSelectString: 'startsWith:' > Receiver's instance variables: > superclass: AppRegistry > methodDict: a MethodDictionary() > format: 2 > instanceVariables: nil > organization: ('as yet unclassified') > > subclasses: nil > name: #ToolSet > classPool: nil > sharedPools: nil > environment: Smalltalk > category: #'System-Applications' > traitComposition: nil > localSelectors: nil > registeredClasses: an OrderedCollection(StandardToolSet > OTToolset DEVToolSet) > default: DEVToolSet > > SystemNavigation>>browseSendersOf:name:autoSelect: > Receiver: a SystemNavigation > Arguments and temporary variables: > aSelector: #startsWith: > labelString: 'Senders of startsWith:' > autoSelectString: 'startsWith:' > title: 'Senders of startsWith: [4]' > size: 4 > senders: an OrderedCollection(a MethodReference Algernon >> > #isMatchingClass:gi...etc... > Receiver's instance variables: > browserClass: nil > hierarchyBrowserClass: nil > > > --- The full stack --- > OBShowSenders class(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #of:label: > DEVToolSet class>>browseSendersOf:name:autoSelect: > ToolSet class>>browseSendersOf:name:autoSelect: > SystemNavigation>>browseSendersOf:name:autoSelect: > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > SystemNavigation>>browseAllCallsOn: > [] in TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>sendersOfIt {[self > systemNavigation browseAllCallsOn: aSelector]} > TextMorphForShoutEditor(Controller)>>terminateAndInitializeAround: > TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>sendersOfIt > [] in PluggableShoutMorph(PluggableTextMorph)>>sendersOfIt {[textMorph > editor sendersOfIt]} > [] in PluggableShoutMorph(PluggableTextMorph)>>handleEdit: {[result := > editBlock value]} > TextMorphForShout(TextMorph)>>handleEdit: > PluggableShoutMorph(PluggableTextMorph)>>handleEdit: > PluggableShoutMorph(PluggableTextMorph)>>sendersOfIt > UndefinedObject(Object)>>perform:orSendTo: > [] in ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>>invokeWithEvent: > {[(selArgCount := selector numArgs) = 0 ifTrue: [target perform: > selector] ...]} > BlockContext>>ensure: > CursorWithMask(Cursor)>>showWhile: > ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>>invokeWithEvent: > ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>>mouseUp: > ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>>handleMouseUp: > MouseButtonEvent>>sentTo: > ToggleMenuItemMorph(Morph)>>handleEvent: > MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchDefault:with: > MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchEvent:with: > ToggleMenuItemMorph(Morph)>>processEvent:using: > MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchDefault:with: > MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchEvent:with: > ...etc... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

the same :) I like coral scripting format. this is just a better chunk format :) But I do not want to open a war again. So better do it "alone" than fight with others. This is also my motto. Stef > i wonder, wouldn't it be better to adopt a new smalltalk scripting > format, which annouced here lately? > IMO it is better to use single format for many different purposes than > use multiple formats. > What you think? > > 2009/3/20 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> Hi goran >> >> I did not get at all why you need a new format. >> Without self. >> I think that if you want adoption of deltastream do not mix them with >> a file format. >> >> Stef >> >> On Mar 20, 2009, at 9:42 AM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Keith Hodges wrote: >>>> Also with DeltaStreams integration with Installer, we might have >>>> the >>>> ability to load into a "Delta/SystemEditor" rather than actually in >>>> to >>>> the image. >>> >>> Ah! There's my queue! :) >>> >>> Yes, although I only read casually what you are talking about I do >>> agree >>> with the general notions expressed. And yes, hopefully we will soon >>> have >>> Deltas in a useful form. >>> >>> Quick status again, followed with some questions: >>> >>> - Lots of tests are now green, still lots of tests not green but >>> most of >>> them are "wishful thinking"-tests and not really broken tests. >>> - I am refactoring and cleaning right now, as a pre-cursor to adding >>> the >>> new file format. >>> - I am also just beginning to try out Tirade as a file format. For >>> more >>> info on Tirade, see my first article: >>> >>> http://goran.krampe.se/blog/Squeak/Tirade.rdoc >>> >>> So in a relatively short timeperiod I hope we have code to load and >>> save >>> Deltas as xxx.d (Delta Tirade format) and xxx.dgz (Gzipped). Would >>> these >>> two file extensions work? Or should we use convention *.d and >>> *.d.gz? >>> >>> Next step IMHO is to write a Dual Change Sorter-ish tool for Deltas >>> - I >>> would also like to hear advice on how to build that in order to: >>> >>> - Be compatible with as many Squeak forks as possible. >>> - Get a clean nice simple tool. >>> >>> Just copy plain dual change sorter? Use Toolbuilder? Use MC >>> codebase? >>> Omnibase? >>> >>> The end goal would be to fully replace Dual Change Sorter - which >>> means >>> that I would also like to have some support for loading a cs as a >>> Delta >>> and to save a Delta as a plain cs. >>> >>> ...and as always, if you like to join us in moving Deltastreams >>> forward, >>> just holler! >>> >>> regards, GÃ¶ran >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by Igor Stasenko

i wonder, wouldn't it be better to adopt a new smalltalk scripting format, which annouced here lately? IMO it is better to use single format for many different purposes than use multiple formats. What you think? 2009/3/20 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Hi goran > > I did not get at all why you need a new format. > Without self. > I think that if you want adoption of deltastream do not mix them with > a file format. > > Stef > > On Mar 20, 2009, at 9:42 AM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Keith Hodges wrote: >>> Also with DeltaStreams integration with Installer, we might have the >>> ability to load into a "Delta/SystemEditor" rather than actually in >>> to >>> the image. >> >> Ah! There's my queue! :) >> >> Yes, although I only read casually what you are talking about I do >> agree >> with the general notions expressed. And yes, hopefully we will soon >> have >> Deltas in a useful form. >> >> Quick status again, followed with some questions: >> >> - Lots of tests are now green, still lots of tests not green but >> most of >> them are "wishful thinking"-tests and not really broken tests. >> - I am refactoring and cleaning right now, as a pre-cursor to adding >> the >> new file format. >> - I am also just beginning to try out Tirade as a file format. For >> more >> info on Tirade, see my first article: >> >> Â Â http://goran.krampe.se/blog/Squeak/Tirade.rdoc >> >> So in a relatively short timeperiod I hope we have code to load and >> save >> Deltas as xxx.d (Delta Tirade format) and xxx.dgz (Gzipped). Would >> these >> two file extensions work? Or should we use convention *.d and *.d.gz? >> >> Next step IMHO is to write a Dual Change Sorter-ish tool for Deltas >> - I >> would also like to hear advice on how to build that in order to: >> >> - Be compatible with as many Squeak forks as possible. >> - Get a clean nice simple tool. >> >> Just copy plain dual change sorter? Use Toolbuilder? Use MC codebase? >> Omnibase? >> >> The end goal would be to fully replace Dual Change Sorter - which >> means >> that I would also like to have some support for loading a cs as a >> Delta >> and to save a Delta as a plain cs. >> >> ...and as always, if you like to join us in moving Deltastreams >> forward, >> just holler! >> >> regards, GÃ¶ran >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Would you start a new Smalltalk project today?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

of course it would be great to be able to have JSmalltalk too. On Mar 20, 2009, at 9:59 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > indeed may be we should not have lost our time with squeak and > participate to invent > really a new smalltalk :) > > Stef > > On Mar 20, 2009, at 4:09 AM, Antony Blakey wrote: > >> >> On 20/03/2009, at 1:30 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote: >> >>> So now it seems that Gemstone is the only multi-core capable >>> Smalltalk VM :-(. >> >> And maybe this: http://etoileos.com/ ? >> >> Antony Blakey >> -------------------------- >> CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd >> Ph: 0438 840 787 >> >> Plurality is not to be assumed without necessity >> -- William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi goran I did not get at all why you need a new format. Without self. I think that if you want adoption of deltastream do not mix them with a file format. Stef On Mar 20, 2009, at 9:42 AM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > Hi! > > Keith Hodges wrote: >> Also with DeltaStreams integration with Installer, we might have the >> ability to load into a "Delta/SystemEditor" rather than actually in >> to >> the image. > > Ah! There's my queue! :) > > Yes, although I only read casually what you are talking about I do > agree > with the general notions expressed. And yes, hopefully we will soon > have > Deltas in a useful form. > > Quick status again, followed with some questions: > > - Lots of tests are now green, still lots of tests not green but > most of > them are "wishful thinking"-tests and not really broken tests. > - I am refactoring and cleaning right now, as a pre-cursor to adding > the > new file format. > - I am also just beginning to try out Tirade as a file format. For > more > info on Tirade, see my first article: > > http://goran.krampe.se/blog/Squeak/Tirade.rdoc > > So in a relatively short timeperiod I hope we have code to load and > save > Deltas as xxx.d (Delta Tirade format) and xxx.dgz (Gzipped). Would > these > two file extensions work? Or should we use convention *.d and *.d.gz? > > Next step IMHO is to write a Dual Change Sorter-ish tool for Deltas > - I > would also like to hear advice on how to build that in order to: > > - Be compatible with as many Squeak forks as possible. > - Get a clean nice simple tool. > > Just copy plain dual change sorter? Use Toolbuilder? Use MC codebase? > Omnibase? > > The end goal would be to fully replace Dual Change Sorter - which > means > that I would also like to have some support for loading a cs as a > Delta > and to save a Delta as a plain cs. > > ...and as always, if you like to join us in moving Deltastreams > forward, > just holler! > > regards, GÃ¶ran > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Would you start a new Smalltalk project today?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

indeed may be we should not have lost our time with squeak and participate to invent really a new smalltalk :) Stef On Mar 20, 2009, at 4:09 AM, Antony Blakey wrote: > > On 20/03/2009, at 1:30 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote: > >> So now it seems that Gemstone is the only multi-core capable >> Smalltalk VM :-(. > > And maybe this: http://etoileos.com/ ? > > Antony Blakey > -------------------------- > CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd > Ph: 0438 840 787 > > Plurality is not to be assumed without necessity > -- William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 20, 2009

[Pharo-project] I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi! Keith Hodges wrote: > Also with DeltaStreams integration with Installer, we might have the > ability to load into a "Delta/SystemEditor" rather than actually in to > the image. Ah! There's my queue! :) Yes, although I only read casually what you are talking about I do agree with the general notions expressed. And yes, hopefully we will soon have Deltas in a useful form. Quick status again, followed with some questions: - Lots of tests are now green, still lots of tests not green but most of them are "wishful thinking"-tests and not really broken tests. - I am refactoring and cleaning right now, as a pre-cursor to adding the new file format. - I am also just beginning to try out Tirade as a file format. For more info on Tirade, see my first article: http://goran.krampe.se/blog/Squeak/Tirade.rdoc So in a relatively short timeperiod I hope we have code to load and save Deltas as xxx.d (Delta Tirade format) and xxx.dgz (Gzipped). Would these two file extensions work? Or should we use convention *.d and *.d.gz? Next step IMHO is to write a Dual Change Sorter-ish tool for Deltas - I would also like to hear advice on how to build that in order to: - Be compatible with as many Squeak forks as possible. - Get a clean nice simple tool. Just copy plain dual change sorter? Use Toolbuilder? Use MC codebase? Omnibase? The end goal would be to fully replace Dual Change Sorter - which means that I would also like to have some support for loading a cs as a Delta and to save a Delta as a plain cs. ...and as always, if you like to join us in moving Deltastreams forward, just holler! regards, GÃ¶ran

March 20, 2009